Solvent Trap

[timcar86]

Saw this the other day: Solvent Trap

 

Not sure what to think. Discuss.

[peejman]

Not new.  If the people who came up with it first have a patent, I don't see how this isn't a violation.  If they didn't patent it... they deserve the business they'll lose.

 

As for the legalities of it...   Kinda like speeding.  It's only against the law if you get caught. 

 

 

http://www.cadizgunworks.com/zcstore/

[quietmike]

They're just begging for an ATF visit.

[Westwindmike]

Note that this one does not cover the holes in the back of the filter. I bet you would get a lot of blowback through those holes.

[peejman]

They're just begging for an ATF visit.

 

 

How are they liable for intentional misuse of the products they sell?  It even says so on the web site.  In that case, the oil filter manufacturer would be just as liable.

 

 

Note that this one does not cover the holes in the back of the filter. I bet you would get a lot of blowback through those holes.

 

 

Nothing a little duct tape couldn't fix.   Just sayin'...

Edited March 18, 2013 by peejman

[evilmonkey]

By them just selling the adapter to put the filter on the barrel it is just a solvent trap. If they sell it with the washer (used to cover the drainage holes in the filter, so you do not get blow back when using a filter as a suppressor) then it can be view as if they are sell complete suppressor adapters. I have seen venders at gun shows sell the washer with them and I was told not to weld the wash and adapter together. The ATF can view it as suppressor part and you can be charged.

[Dolomite_supafly]

They are probably going to be viewed as suppressors in the eyes of the ATF. ANYTHING that alters or quietens a gunshot is a suppressor no matter what it is or what it is made out of. Even though the holes in the back are not covered it will still alter the shot.

 

There used to be a "solvent trap" that used a plastic adapter to screw a plastic Coke bottle onto the end of a barrel. The ATF jumped all over them, even though all the parts were plastic, stating it was a suppressor. These are no different and the ATF will eventually get involved, seize the sales records and make a lot of visits.

 

I would not trust anyone who sells these "solvent traps" unless they have a letter from the ATF saying they are legal without paperwork. I suspect the reason why they don't is because the manufacturer knows the ATF will say they are a suppressor.

 

People seem to want a suppressor but don't want to pay to be legal. The cost of a high end suppressor and the stamp is going to be less than the bond for having an illegal NFA item.

[Smith]

Cadiz has had these out for a few years now. There are even a few threads about them here. The ATF has already had their say and there is nothing wrong with them. Cadiz sells them NFA serialized for suppressor use and non-serialized for solvent trap purposes. The serialized pieces are larger and cover the holes in the filter. You also have to send it back to Cadiz for a new filter per ATF rules  when the existing one is used up. All in all not bad for an $85 suppressor.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Smith

[Spots]

People seem to want a suppressor but don't want to pay to be legal. The cost of a high end suppressor and the stamp is going to be less than the bond for having an illegal NFA item.

Some people realize how stupid and unconstitutional the NFA laws are and are sick and tired of paying to exercise their rights to be "legal" for some jack booted thugs. Like was said above, you only get in trouble if you get caught. If you buy it as a solvent catch, last I checked its innocent until proven guilty, at least for a little while longer.

Sent from the backwoods of Nowhere

[Dolomite_supafly]

And the cost of a legally owned suppressor is less than the cost to get you out of jail for suspicion of having an illegal NFA item. And even if the judge throws the case out at your very first hearing you are still going to be out thousands of dollars in legal expenses. I know I would not show up to any type of criminal case, no matter how small, without a paid attorney and the last time I checked you could probably buy a legal machine gun for about the same cost as retaining one.

 

The supreme court has already ruled certain items, like NFA items, can be regulated without violating the Consitution.

 

And as much as I would love to walk out to my garage and make all my friends a suppressor I can't. I don't agree with the law and find it idiotic but it is the law. And I will not loose my freedom over something as stupid as trying to avoid paying taxes. It is a tax and the form is a protected tax document.

[Spots]

And the cost of a legally owned suppressor is less than the cost to get you out of jail for suspicion of having an illegal NFA item. And even if the judge throws the case out at your very first hearing you are still going to be out thousands of dollars in legal expenses. I know I would not show up to any type of criminal case, no matter how small, without a paid attorney and the last time I checked you could probably buy a legal machine gun for about the same cost as retaining one.

The supreme court has already ruled certain items, like NFA items, can be regulated without violating the Consitution.

And as much as I would love to walk out to my garage and make all my friends a suppressor I can't. I don't agree with the law and find it idiotic but it is the law. And I will not loose my freedom over something as stupid as trying to avoid paying taxes. It is a tax and the form is a protected tax document.

At some point it has to stop being about money and start being about what is right and wrong. I don't have one and have no intentions of getting one, but to be honest with you I don't really care what the Supreme court says. An infringement is just that. The Constitution is the law of the land and I will follow it until I die. Those are God given rights, and as such, no man can take them away. The right to self protection and to be self goverened is a natural right, and that means being equally as well armed as those who might chose to take away those rights. Sadly we have become a cowed Nation who lets politicians tell us what we may do. This stuff didn't happen in years past because people simple told the Goverment where to put it. And yes I know the NFA has been around since 1934 and I have no idea why they put up with it back then, consdering that they made an Amendment banning alchol and people like my family continued to make and haul it irregardless of what the Goverment boys said. Some people still feel that way

Sent from the backwoods of Nowhere

[Smith]

Only practical use I could see is to keep it in a BOB for when the world ends. I love the ingenuity, but would be pretty difficult to have to send it back all the time for a new filter.

[Jonnin]

the pretext of this device is very flimsy.   NO ONE pours a can of solvent down the barrel.  You dip a little bit onto a cloth, not even enough to drip.   And that big heavy mess on the gun makes it harder to clean.  And you disassemble the gun to clean it, normally.   And this thing is just a silencer with a false pretext for marketing purposes.... period.  

[estwing]

I'll just stay with my sparrow and phantom.

[evilmonkey]

I look at it like this, if you are going through the a%$-pain to do the paper work and pay for your tax stamp then you should spend a little money and get a good supressor. Not a cheap solvent $85.00 NFA legal suppressor that you have to mail back for $35.00 oil filter replacement.

 

Just my two cents..lol

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Ridiculous laws are what spurs innovation. The NFA is a cluster of ridiculous laws to begin with. This isn't

about breaking a law, but more on how stupid the law is. Just one out of hundreds of thousands of other

stupid laws.

[runco]

I saw a guy today selling these at the K gun show, I think $35 each. Cash and carry! Just found these on ebay for $10.00 and $2.75 shipping. How much fluid does it take to soak the filter and for you to get a drop recycled?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261351265698?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

[Guest 6.8 AR]

They're just begging for an ATF visit.

Why? You can walk in Lowe's and come out with everything you need to make a suppressor, not that it will be any count. There is

a video on Youtube of a guy using a flashlight to make one. If it's advertized as a solvent trap, that's what it is. If someone uses it

for some other reason, it isn't because of the piece. Do you folks really think anything that can be used as something different from

it's specified use, should be required to have a stamp? An assassin in Nelson DeMille's "Lion's Game" used plastic coke bottles. I'm

sure someone else has done that. Put Coca Cola on notice ATF!

 

All that gizmo is is a piece of aluminum threaded on both ends with a grab in the middle for a wrench. Gee that's an NFA item. You

can find things like that in the scrap piles of machine shops. I'm sure the ATF has already visited them.

 

The test for the ATF would be if the device itself actually altered report. Someone tell me it does that. It doesn't. Pound on your high

chest. This is making a mountain out of a molehill.

 

I look at it like this, if you are going through the a%$-pain to do the paper work and pay for your tax stamp then you should spend a little money and get a good supressor. Not a cheap solvent $85.00 NFA legal suppressor that you have to mail back for $35.00 oil filter replacement.

 

Just my two cents..lol

Some other people might disagree what you think they should do. That's what the marketplace is all about.

 

Illegal threads. That's a hoot.

 

Those who say it should be might first find where someone is first using one in an illegal manner. Apparently the ATF agrees. It's

been around for a couple years. Do you really think they haven't seen this?

 

There's no need for an ATF. There are enough people around here who should be writing those regulations. :D

Edited December 15, 2013 by 6.8 AR

[Luke E.]

the pretext of this device is very flimsy.   NO ONE pours a can of solvent down the barrel.  You dip a little bit onto a cloth, not even enough to drip.   And that big heavy mess on the gun makes it harder to clean.  And you disassemble the gun to clean it, normally.   And this thing is just a silencer with a false pretext for marketing purposes.... period.  

 

 I think the idea isn't for pouring containers of solvent down the barrel so much as it is for catching nasty solvent, lead and copper contaminated patches. We all know why this item was originally made in someones home shop so i'm not disputing that but they have got a legal alternate use that they sell it under.

 

I look at it like this, if you are going through the a%$-pain to do the paper work and pay for your tax stamp then you should spend a little money and get a good supressor. Not a cheap solvent $85.00 NFA legal suppressor that you have to mail back for $35.00 oil filter replacement.

 

Just my two cents..lol

 

  I don't think there are many folks out there paying the tax and waiting for 15 months to use these so i'd say that most that are willing to wait and pay the tax are buying an actual suppressor. This is not for those guys, this is for folks that are willing to take the chance using a "solvent trap" as a suppressor out on their farm or other private land where they figure no one is ever gonna know. Anyone that purposely pays a tax, waits 15 months and has there info registered in yet one more government database in order to use this adapter as a suppressor is a moron.

[crashgordan]

don't own one, don't intend to...
but i don't think for a lot of people it has anything to do so much with the price of a can.
i think it has a lot more to do with the list it puts you on.
i think a lot more people would own SBR/Cans/and all the other cool toys but they really don't wish to be on the special list

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I don't care one bit what someone does or doesn't do with it. Some of you have attached the thought of it being around a gun and that

somehow makes it illegal. If you bother to look at it and then look at a thread adapter for using another spin on oil filter, or an adapter

for for a pipe, for that matter, you could, if you took off your kaleidoscope glasses, see that this is all it is: a thread adapter. Now, how

could a company who makes a product like that, markets a product like that, sells a product like that be doing something illegal?

 

The only way this product could be illegal is if it is used as an adapter, by an individual, to make an illegal suppressor. How is whoever

makes that product at risk from the ATF? I seriously doubt the ATF gives a hoot about this product. Ever done any plumbing? Ever

done any piping for hydraulic lines? Yes, it is illegal to make a suppressor, but this thing isn't the bugaboo some of you think it is.

 

For someone mechanically inclined, it is very easy to make things that work for other things. I have made many of my own tools while

working on all the cars I've owned, rather than trying to find the Snap-On truck and paying through the nose for something I would

most likely use one time. I am so surprised this little inanimate object has a bunch of gunowners in such a tizzy. But I saw this on a

couple other forums and the same internet phenomena was taking place on those, so I will just remain confused on this one. But some

of you guys know me, and you know how I feel about the other arguments, concerning legality vs unjust laws, so I'll just let that go.

 

If this kind of thing is a big deal, any fight for the restoration of sane laws concerning firearms will be extremely difficult because you

fear your master, while quoting people long dead who fought for just laws, and lost in the end.

 

There will always be an individual who will break the law. God knows. There are enough laws to choose from, many you never heard of,

so what is the big deal with a piece of threaded aluminum that can be used several ways?

 

A mind is a terrible thing to waste! :D

[runco]

For the record, I'm tired of losing my solvent. I want to reclaim it, clean! I want to save the environment. The earth is to darn hot!

If I did buy one, it would pay for it cash only! Not through ebay, paypal, or heaven forbid use a cc! Too much NSA! And if I did buy one, I would certainly store it with my ANSI fittings that I have left over from the my hotrod days of building chromed out engines! Just in case! Could bury it with the PVC pipe in the back yard.