Compact or Subcompact 45

[1gewehr]

No matter what else you say, a .45 still makes a bigger hole going in than other calibers available for a small automatic.  Big holes let the blood out faster.

 

I almost bought a Glock 36 until I shot one and found the magazine pinch to be distracting.  The little XDs is on my list to buy later this year.  Until then, I'll stick with my ancient Star PD.

[mikegideon]

No matter what else you say, a .45 still makes a bigger hole going in than other calibers available for a small automatic.  Big holes let the blood out faster.

 

I almost bought a Glock 36 until I shot one and found the magazine pinch to be distracting.  The little XDs is on my list to buy later this year.  Until then, I'll stick with my ancient Star PD.

 

No need to suffer that pinch. I fixed mine. Yep, a standard 45 bullet weights exactly twice as much as a standard 9mm bullet. I have 9mm, 40, and 45. The 45 has a much better social life than the others.

[Guest ab28]

No matter what else you say, a .45 still makes a bigger hole going in than other calibers available for a small automatic.  Big holes let the blood out faster.

 

I almost bought a Glock 36 until I shot one and found the magazine pinch to be distracting.  The little XDs is on my list to buy later this year.  Until then, I'll stick with my ancient Star PD.

Not really. In hollowpoints, a .45 is only a tenth of an inch bigger petaled out than a 9mm. They have about the same penetration, the reason 9mm got a myth as being a weak round was overpenetration, and the energy was wasted. You don't depend on bleeding to stop the target anyways. You depend on organ or CNS hits.

 

 

No need to suffer that pinch. I fixed mine. Yep, a standard 45 bullet weights exactly twice as much as a standard 9mm bullet. I have 9mm, 40, and 45. The 45 has a much better social life than the others.

Velocity matters more than weight. The .45 may weigh a lot more, but a 9mm and a .45 hollowpoint hit with a similar amount of force(physics equation Force=mass x acceleration, which is why rifle rounds are generally light but devastating as hell). Anyways, how they hit doesn't really matter, you are looking for penetration, and to destroy organs. I'd carry any 9, 40, or 45, it wouldn't matter, and I would use them the same, and expect them to perform about the same on whoever I shot.

 

I got to examine quite a few bullet wounds in Iraq as a medic, no .45, but I saw a few people get shot with the lowly 9mm FMJ. I have seen it take as few as one, and as many as six. I have also seen a member of my team keep breathing for 2 hours after taking an AK round in the brain. I've seen people take one M4 bullet and be DRT, and I saw another running away after at least 3 people in my platoon had shot him multiple times.

 

That tells me that the human body is a lot tougher than people think, and I am not going to rely on caliber to stop someone. Whatever I have, I'm gonna keep shooting them until they stop, whether that is 1 or 2 bullets, or several magazines.

Edited March 21, 2013 by ab28

[mikegideon]

So, I wasting my time with that 230 grain bullet?

[Guest ab28]

So, I wasting my time with that 230 grain bullet?

Not wasting your time, but you shouldn't expect it to be vastly superior to another handgun round. It will be in FMJ, because the bigger, slower round generally doesn't overpenetrate. For a hollowpoint, they all perform pretty similarly, and have almost the exact same penetration. Expansion rate is much better on hollowpoints than they used to be, used to be about 50% expansion rate, now it is about 90%+. All my experience with people getting shot was with FMJ's though, which we should technically use hollowpoints as we are not fighting a uniformed force as in the Hague Convention, but people forget that.

[mikegideon]

Well, we all get to believe what we want. I've been dealing with 9mm for 30+ years. I have no problem with the round, but it would take a +P to get close to the powder charge behind a 45acp. I like the big lead... call me old fashioned.  

[Guest ab28]

Well, we all get to believe what we want. I've been dealing with 9mm for 30+ years. I have no problem with the round, but it would take a +P to get close to the powder charge behind a 45acp. I like the big lead... call me old fashioned.  

It's not belief, it's physics. Can't really argue with math. I guess I was a bit too simplistic. A .45 hollowpoint is more powerful than a 9mm hollowpoint, but you probably won't notice any difference if you shoot someone with either. Also, most defensive commercial rounds are +P.

[mikegideon]

Physics??? Oh no! :)

[Patton]

So, I wasting my time with that 230 grain bullet?

The 200gr is the true winner of the 45acp, even the 230 gr Gold Dots have been known to not expand.
I have seen someone die from one 22lr to the brain and the next week someone accidentally shot there self with a 44mag and live, one round to the shoulder and he didn't even go into shock.
Shot placement is what I keep in mind and anything worth shooting once is worth shooting twice.

[TGO David]

Back to the subject at hand, among the various handguns I own are two XD-S's.  I carry one as my pocket gun and my wife carries one as her primary.  We've had zero problems out of them from about 500 rounds each so far.  Certainly no light primer strikes.  For a small .45ACP it is, in my opinion, the best thing going right now.

 

That being said I would not choose it as my primary simply because I prefer something a little bit bigger for extended shooting (ie practice sessions) and I prefer something with a larger magazine capacity.  If I were going to pick a .45ACP as my primary it would be either the M&P 45 mid-size with the 4" bbl or the HK 45C.  I do in fact have the M&P 45 mid-size but it tends to stay uncarried in favor of the M&P 9mm instead simply for weight savings and larger magazine capacity.  Which takes us back to the notion that with modern defensive ammunition there really aren't too many compelling reasons for me to choose a .45 over a 9mm, but the additional capacity in the same size frame does give me a compelling reason to carry the 9mm if given the choice between the two.

 

My logic is a bit screwy perhaps and it almost seems contradictory to what I just said when I explain why I chose the XD-S for pocket carry.  For that particular application I once again weighed caliber vs. capacity and came to the conclusion that in a pocket gun where I was going to be deficient on capacity anyway, I might as well carry the largest projectile possible.

[Curiousgb]

I've been very happy with my PT145.  They don't make it anymore, but the 24/7 compact is essentially the same gun. 

 

Me too. Really nice accurate pistol, for the money. 

[mikegideon]

It's not belief, it's physics. Can't really argue with math. I guess I was a bit too simplistic. A .45 hollowpoint is more powerful than a 9mm hollowpoint, but you probably won't notice any difference if you shoot someone with either. Also, most defensive commercial rounds are +P.

 

Actually, the math supports what you're saying (did a little playing this morning). If you push a 9 over standard pressure, it gets right up there with a 45 in muzzle energy. The energy drops faster with the lighter bullet, but not a factor inside 25 yards. The extra velocity will certainly help expansion. Time to play with some hot 9mm loads as soon as ammo availability recovers. I'll probably play with .357 SIG as well.

 

OK... I'm done jacking the thread now :)

[jaymc75]

I just bought an XDM 45 compact and I love everything about it... I'm very new to conceal carry (less than a month) but with the 9 round mag it conceals very well for me in my N82 holster. Plus it's a great shooter, after searching, reading, watching hours of videos on youtube it came down between the XDM 45c & the Glock 30 SF, I got a chance to shoot both and the XDM felt better overall for me.

[tercel89]

I often carry a Glock 30. 45 cal. I like it a lot.

Yes , the almighty Glock 30 . It is one of the most accurate Glocks that there is . Very reliable and dependable.

[PoofNoEyeBrows]

I carry a XDS .45 and love it. You can get an extended mag that will raise you to 7 + 1. Recoil is not bad at all.

[trevorst]

Yes , the almighty Glock 30 . It is one of the most accurate Glocks that there is . Very reliable and dependable.

The new Glock 30S is now out in the wild its basically a Glock 30 with a slim 36 slide (in other words perfect).

[Guest Joshua__423]

They are an improvement. My best friend since 7th grade has loaned me his G36 several times. Truthfully I do like the G36 more than most every other 45 made, Sig 220's are nice though. The G36 reminds me more of 9/40/357 Glocks which I have 10k rounds of familiarity with over the years. I have followed one of the threads on Glocktalk where a guy has chopped a G36 mag down to a flush fit 5rd mag. I don't know why Glock didn't make the G36 like other baby Glocks with a two finger grip instead of the pinch master plate.

I own a 36 and it is my EDC. I love the gun. It is a great size. With the grip you get 8 rounds. Slick size. Good shooter. I also own a 27 which my gf hijacked to carry. The 36 is much more comfortable to carry. Love Love Love. That is all

[Randall53]

The glock 26, (9mm shorty or "baby glock") holds 10+1 just like the 30... But the 30 is a 45. I'll take 11 .45's over 11 9mm's anytime Edited March 31, 2013 by Randall53

[Guest ab28]

The glock 26, (9mm shorty or "baby glock") holds 10+1 just like the 30... But the 30 is a 45. I'll take 11 .45's over 11 9mm's anytime

If you are shooting hollowpoints, it won't matter. The 9mm will also have less recoil.

[trevorst]

If you are shooting hollowpoints, it won't matter. The 9mm will also have less recoil.

Edited to keep this discussion on topic.

Edited April 1, 2013 by trevorst

[Patton]

Here we go!

[lshel]

I've had and carried Glock 30's and 36's but sold mind and bought a SW M&P 45c with adjustable grip inserts. I favor this 45 acp over the Glocks. I prefer either 185g or 200g hp ammo, especially Golden Saber or Gold Dot.

[Guest kj4gxu]

I really appreciate all the discussion and advice on this topic.  I've been doing a little research including looking up some ballistic tests on youtube.

 

To try to keep things as fair as possible I found ballistic tests using the same brand of ammo (Speer gold dot, standard pressure) for 9 mm, 40 and 45.  I looked at several bullet weights from low end to high end for each caliber and what I saw was this.  All the tests were by the same individual using the same media type.

 

As was stated above, after expansion bullet diameter was very close across all three calibers.

The permanent cavity created by all was similar, there were differences but probably not enough to say one will definitely stop better than the other.

Penetration in order of deepest to shallowest was 9mm, 40, 45.

 

I assume this is due to the 9mm having a higher velocity.

 

I'm a little torn here, 9mm seems like it will do an equal job of stopping with less recoil, but the 45 looks like it would have lower chance of over penetration.  Maybe I'll just stop in the middle and go with the 40, (isn't that why they came up with the 40 caliber round anyway, to split the difference between 9 and 45?)

 

Thanks again and I hope to see the discussion continue here.

Edited April 1, 2013 by kj4gxu

[Patton]

Over penetration from a handgun in most any common caliber isn't too much of a concern. You have a greater chance of hitting the lottery twice than having to actually use your weapon and run the risk of over penetration. Think how much velocity is lost after 16" of flesh, bone, organs and clothing. If you miss than you miss, regardless of caliber.

[spammy_h]

Just my $.02 - I own the Springfield XD45 Compact, and have been very pleased with it. Having said that, I bought a Springfield EMP40, and have not carried anything else since. I would recommend looking into a commander length 1911, or a single stack polymer .45 (XDs, Kahr, etc.) - for civilian every day carry, the thickness of the gun really matters, more than you realize.

 

My next purchase will be a commander length 1911 in .45 ACP, and will probably be my EDC.