I can't believe how stupid I have been

[Oh Shoot]

I like the barder system..

 

Where you write poetry to exchange for goods? ;)

[mav]

Where you write poetry to exchange for goods? ;)

 

I made a bet with myself on whether or not you would respond to that post.  I won.  :)

[Oh Shoot]

I made a bet with myself on whether or not you would respond to that post.  I won.  :)

 

So you're calling me a pedantic OCD grammer Nazi, eh? You just wait, someday the Association of English Majors will get Marshal Law declared on this sort of stuff!

 

- OS

[Worriedman]

I wasn't referring to real property, I was referring to personal property which isn't subject to the laws of imminent domain. I was referring to our cash and bank accounts. I was simply stating that the house of representatives would have to take an affirmative vote to tax bank accounts.

By the way, don't think that the cash in your mattress is safe; there are mechanisms for them to get at that too.

Hard to get  some folks to see this, but, your cash is your property.  Taxes are legalized theft of property.  If you did not have to give the government your taxes, you could buy more property. Government has a mechanism to take everything you have, including your life.

[mikegideon]

So you're calling me a pedantic OCD grammer Nazi, eh? You just wait, someday the Association of English Majors will get Marshal Law declared on this sort of stuff!

 

- OS

 

I would never do that, even though I seen you do it more than once :)

[Rowdy]

So you're calling me a pedantic OCD grammer Nazi, eh? You just wait, someday the Association of English Majors will get Marshal Law declared on this sort of stuff!
 
- OS

Is that Marshal Law the kind where marshal Matt Dillon comes after you?

I'm sorry, I really tried not to do it but I just couldn't help it.

[Rowdy]

Hard to get  some folks to see this, but, your cash is your property.  Taxes are legalized theft of property.  If you did not have to give the government your taxes, you could buy more property. Government has a mechanism to take everything you have, including your life.

The way the government gets access to our cash in the mattress could be rather simple. Here's how it was explained to me:

On Oct.1 the Feds announce that they will be issuing new currency and you have ten days to exchange the currency you now have; after Oct 10 the old currency will be worthless. Now if I've got $10K stashed around the house what am I going to do? Yep, I'll take it in and exchange for new money which will probably be revalued to included a nifty little one time tax.

Will it happen? Probably not. But if we've thought of it surely some weasels in DC have thought of it too.

Just one more thing to sleep on tonight. :)

[BigK]

Money is the biggest part of the problem. A fiat money system only works when the gov't controlling its value can be trusted. We trusted them and they dropped the gold standard. Now they can do anything they want to the value of our currency.

You work your ass off for a dollar today and next year it's not worth as much, because they printed too much money. Then they have the nerve to call it "inflation" as if it's some natural phenomenon that cannot be controlled.

Then they lead us to believe that our money is ours, but we want it to be more secure. So, we make the system electronic with imaginary 1's and 0's flying around in a computer somewhere. All they while, if you do something they don't like they can flick a switch and turn your 1's into 0's and freeze your accounts.

We made it too easy for them, it's inevitable that they'll eventually do what Cyprus did. They'll say it's for our own good and that it's to preserve our way of life, but the ants will always be forced to feed the grasshoppers. There's already 47 grasshoppers for every 53 ants. And as soon as there are 51, we're screwed!

[Oh Shoot]

Is that Marshal Law the kind where marshal Matt Dillon comes after you?

I'm sorry, I really tried not to do it but I just couldn't help it.

 

I didn't think anyone would bite, as didn't consider it all that subtle.

 

edit: that means my use of "Marshal" was a little jokey poo, and given the placement of its usage, a pretty obvious one, I thought.

 

- OS

Edited March 19, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[BigK]

I didn't think anyone would bite, as didn't consider it all that subtle.
 
- OS

Martial Dillon was a good guy he'd never steel your cache.

[Earl33]

Where you write poetry to exchange for goods? ;)

Sorry!! Old Shit (Shoot, spell check didn't catch it).. At times my fingers out run my fingers.. BARTER ...

 

Didn't mean to upset the Natzi..

[Oh Shoot]

Sorry!! Old #### (Shoot, spell check didn't catch it).. At times my fingers out run my fingers.. BARTER ...

 

I give typo credit for adjacent keys on QWERTY board.

 

...Didn't mean to upset the Natzi..

 
"Nazi". ;)

Edited March 19, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Rowdy]

I didn't think anyone would bite, as didn't consider it all that subtle.
 
- OS

Sorry, my 11th grade English teacher beat everything she knew into me.

[Rowdy]

Martial Dillon was a good guy he'd never steel your cache.

I'm now wrapping duck tape around my head so it doesn't explode!

[Earl33]

Mine is YTREWQ, and i play it left handed strung right handed..   Christ I hope I got all that right.. 

[BigK]

you guys rock!

I went from being mad as hell and ranting about money to laughing my butt off in the same thread

[Rowdy]

you guys rock!
I went from being mad as hell and ranting about money to laughing my butt off in the same thread

Don't worry about. And just remember, there's no such thing as a rich dead person. You're either rich or dead, one or the other, never both.

[Earl33]

Don't worry about. And just remember, there's no such thing as a rich dead person. You're either rich or dead, one or the other, never both.

He's right.. I'v never seen a Hearse pulling a U-Haul trailer.. Never..  

[Guest flashlight Dave]

Its a sad day when we who are living in Amerika worry about the government stealing our retirement money. I think most people are not awake to the reality of how bad things really are.

[mav]

It now appears that savings accounts in other European countries will raid savings accounts to preserve the currency.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9952979/Cyprus-bail-out-savers-will-be-raided-to-save-euro-in-future-crises-says-eurozone-chief.html

[Commando68]

for being responsible and actually saving money.  I am such a fool.
 
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/16/us-eurozone-cyprus-idUSBRE92E02220130316
 
It appears that savers in Cyprus are gonna take it the rear when up to 10% of their savings get confiscated.  At the rate our country is spending, this will be a likely scenario here in the near future. 
 
Question.  If our money is pretty much going to be worthless in a few years, and our retirement savings will more than likely be seized, what is the purpose in saving?  (Using my Bob Barker voice) Why not just live it up like there is no tomorrow?  Buy that house or car you can't possibly afford.  Wanna get that 120 inch LED you've been dreaming about, but just can't afford it?  No problem, just come on down and swipe that plastic and promise to pay back the money.  If your house goes into foreclosure, no problem because you may qualify for one of the many government programs that will bail you out courtesy of taxpayers.
 
You often read complaints about politicians on this forum, and rightly so.  However, you don't read a lot of complaints about the people who vote the jackasses in.  In my mind, they are worse than the politicians.  Anyone that votes for a politician to get stuff is really nothing more than a thief if you consider they are electing someone who has promised them that they will take from one group, i.e. taxpayers, and give to another group.  The really sad part is regardless of who controls the government, it will never change. 
 
So, back to my question, what is the purpose of saving?

You can save: ammunition, firearms, gold, silver, canning supplies, ad nauseum. Hard commodities that will never go down in value and may save your life one day. Cash makes great toilet paper and tender for fires. Just ask obama.

[mav]

Let us look at a different angle on this situation.  It nows appears that Cypriots are livid with the restrictions banks have made regarding their money.  You often hear Cypriots complain that the banks have stolen their money, but you also hear them complain about the austerity measures and cutting back of social programs.  What gives?  Are they that stupid that they don't understand you can't borrow millions if not billions of dollars for entitlement programs then not be expected to pay the money back?  Judging by a lot of Cypriots reactions, I would say yes they are.  Another possibility could be that they were hoping Obama would give them some money from his stash.

[peejman]

Let us look at a different angle on this situation.  It nows appears that Cypriots are livid with the restrictions banks have made regarding their money.  You often hear Cypriots complain that the banks have stolen their money, but you also hear them complain about the austerity measures and cutting back of social programs.  What gives?  Are they that stupid that they don't understand you can't borrow millions if not billions of dollars for entitlement programs then not be expected to pay the money back?  Judging by a lot of Cypriots reactions, I would say yes they are.  Another possibility could be that they were hoping Obama would give them some money from his stash.

 

Perhaps they're not that stupid, they're simply ignorant.  Very, very few people make any effort to understand how the banking and governmental finance systems work.  I don't think that's entirely their fault.  Those systems have evolved over time to be so absurdly complex, they're effectively beyond comprehension.  A single input could result in 1000 different outputs based on 1 million variables.  Until the systems are simplified to the point that they can be reasonably understood, I think they're all doomed to fail in one way or another.

 

In addition, the looming bankruptcy is bad news and people neither like to give nor receive bad news.  They're very difficult problems with very difficult solutions, o they just ignore and hope it'll go away.  It's not a big stretch to say that we'll be in the same position in a decade or two. 

[mav]

Perhaps they're not that stupid, they're simply ignorant.  Very, very few people make any effort to understand how the banking and governmental finance systems work.  I don't think that's entirely their fault.  Those systems have evolved over time to be so absurdly complex, they're effectively beyond comprehension.  A single input could result in 1000 different outputs based on 1 million variables.  Until the systems are simplified to the point that they can be reasonably understood, I think they're all doomed to fail in one way or another.

 

In addition, the looming bankruptcy is bad news and people neither like to give nor receive bad news.  They're very difficult problems with very difficult solutions, o they just ignore and hope it'll go away.  It's not a big stretch to say that we'll be in the same position in a decade or two. 

I guess you could claim the a lot of the public is willfully ignorant.  The same cannot be said of their elected leaders.  I used the term willfully ignorant because it should be blatantly obvious that you can't keep spending more than you have without realizing that one day the bill is going to come due.

 

I will be the first to admit that I do not comprehend all of the complexities of government finance.  In fact, I know very few people that do.  However, I do understand that individuals, businesses, and governments that borrow and spend money are expected to pay it back.  The more debt one acquires, the greater the difficulty in paying it back.  As a separate issue, I also understand that the overall OTC derivative exposure being close to $700 trillion, and having some banks leveraged at almost 50:1 is a problem.  The slightest ripple could cause a systemic crash.

 

One of the things I find interesting about the whole scenario is that Cyprus has a debt to GDP ratio of around 75%.  Our country is around 107%.  In about 4 years, we will be around 130 - 140%.  Interesting times await us in the near future.

 

I guess I am just a little old fashioned in my way of thinking.  I was taught to live within in your means, keep an emergency fund, and if you must borrow, that you should never borrow more than what you can pay back even if the worst case scenario should happen.  Perhaps if more people returned to those values we would be lot better off, and we would not sabotage our kid's opportunity of future prosperity.

[peejman]

I guess you could claim the a lot of the public is willfully ignorant.  The same cannot be said of their elected leaders.  I used the term willfully ignorant because it should be blatantly obvious that you can't keep spending more than you have without realizing that one day the bill is going to come due.

 

Should be.  Kinda like common sense...

 

 

I will be the first to admit that I do not comprehend all of the complexities of government finance.  In fact, I know very few people that do.  However, I do understand that individuals, businesses, and governments that borrow and spend money are expected to pay it back.  The more debt one acquires, the greater the difficulty in paying it back.  As a separate issue, I also understand that the overall OTC derivative exposure being close to $700 trillion, and having some banks leveraged at almost 50:1 is a problem.  The slightest ripple could cause a systemic crash.

 

One of the things I find interesting about the whole scenario is that Cyprus has a debt to GDP ratio of around 75%.  Our country is around 107%.  In about 4 years, we will be around 130 - 140%.  Interesting times await us in the near future.

 

Clearly you understand more than I do (which really isn't much of a compliment  ;)  )   I had to google OTC derivative exposure.  I now know what it means though I don't think I really grasp the concept.  The whole idea of securities and futures is just too abstract for my simple mind. 

 

The debt to GDP ratio is interesting.  Clearly Cyprus is an example of what can happen when one's creditors lose confidence, be that individual or governmental.  

 

 

I guess I am just a little old fashioned in my way of thinking.  I was taught to live within in your means, keep an emergency fund, and if you must borrow, that you should never borrow more than what you can pay back even if the worst case scenario should happen.  Perhaps if more people returned to those values we would be lot better off, and we would not sabotage our kid's opportunity of future prosperity.

 

 

Bah... that's just crazy talk. 

Edited March 29, 2013 by peejman