Governor signs guns in parking lots bill

[TMF]

Can I be fired if I have a "NoBama" bumper sticker on my car when I park in the company lot?

 

I don't know the legalities on that, but in a free country the answer would be "yes".

[Guest Cami]

Can I be fired if I have a "NoBama" bumper sticker on my car when I park in the company lot?

Depends on where you work! LOL!  I keep getting strange looks at my TGO sticker, thinking about adding a NRA one, that should really have them in a frenzy! (Work at a private college).  So far no one has said anything, but I have been there so long, I know where all the bodies are buried... (I buried some myself, deep).  Oh well, was looking for a job when I got this one.

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

Teachers are just citizens like us. Like some citizens; some teachers are ignorant beyond belief. Couple that with tenure and you can see how this happens.

 

Don’t forget you are in a country that elected Obama president…… twice.

No Kidding, I keep hoping that I will awake from this nightmare.

 

Our children are being indoctrinated to tell on us too.  Educate your little ones about firearms before they go to school.  That they do not have to answer questions like "does daddy have a gun at home", etc.  I hate to build distrust into children, but these people are not their friends.  If you had seen some of the ciricula that is and has been put in place in our schools and the abject fear many teachers have of firearms you would understand why I cannot teach there anymore.  It is worse farther north but it is bad enough right here.  Traditional values are being erroded all over.  If you have little ones I would be very careful whom I entrusted to teach them.

That is just one of many reasons that my critters have been home-schooled for the past few years. It is hard to tell your kid to tell the teacher that he or she dont have to answer any questions like that because you are telling the kid to tell the teacher that it simply isnt any of their business.

 

And while that is true, the kids have to be of a certain age and maturity to understand what and why you are telling them such things, otherwise you may end up with a counter productive result by teaching the kid that they dont have to respect adults.

It can get hard depending on the particular kid.

 

So for that and far too many other reasons to list here I pulled mine out. And just for anyone thinking about doing the same....it can be done and if you are even thinking about it, it probably should be done, but it is one of the hardest jobs that you will ever endure. Home schooling is worth the effort to me but it sure hasnt been easy.

 

Depends on where you work! LOL!  I keep getting strange looks at my TGO sticker, thinking about adding a NRA one, that should really have them in a frenzy! (Work at a private college).  So far no one has said anything, but I have been there so long, I know where all the bodies are buried... (I buried some myself, deep).  Oh well, was looking for a job when I got this one.

Just in case a critter digs up something that you have buried, Bethel University in McKenzie TN was looking to fill some positions for the sumer and fall semesters a few weeks ago.....just FYI and LOL

 

Sorry unintended Hi-Jack over without causalities or collateral damage.

[Guest Cami]

I homeschooled my boys as much as I was financially able.  They are strict constitutionalists and are raising theirs the same way.  My oldest wants me to quit my job, move to Texas and homeschool my granddaughter.  Told him I wasn't that old yet.  Kid said I did a good job with him, he was hoping I would do the same for his kids.  Wow.  Ya know you did something good, huh?

[Guest Cami]

No Kidding, I keep hoping that I will awake from this nightmare.

 

That is just one of many reasons that my critters have been home-schooled for the past few years. It is hard to tell your kid to tell the teacher that he or she dont have to answer any questions like that because you are telling the kid to tell the teacher that it simply isnt any of their business.

 

And while that is true, the kids have to be of a certain age and maturity to understand what and why you are telling them such things, otherwise you may end up with a counter productive result by teaching the kid that they dont have to respect adults.

It can get hard depending on the particular kid.

 

So for that and far too many other reasons to list here I pulled mine out. And just for anyone thinking about doing the same....it can be done and if you are even thinking about it, it probably should be done, but it is one of the hardest jobs that you will ever endure. Home schooling is worth the effort to me but it sure hasnt been easy.

 

Just in case a critter digs up something that you have buried, Bethel University in McKenzie TN was looking to fill some positions for the sumer and fall semesters a few weeks ago.....just FYI and LOL

 

Sorry unintended Hi-Jack over without causalities or collateral damage.

It can't be reiterated enough, if you are even thinking about it you should be doing it.  It is worth all the time and headaches. 

Where is McKenszie, TN?  Oh well, they won't find the bodies, even if they do they can never tie it to me!

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

It can't be reiterated enough, if you are even thinking about it you should be doing it.  It is worth all the time and headaches. 

Where is McKenszie, TN?  Oh well, they won't find the bodies, even if they do they can never tie it to me!

Good to know you covered yourself well. :up: 

 

McKenzie is as the crow flies right at 100 miles due west of Nashville. It is about 25 miles southwest of Paris TN and about 40 miles North East of Jackson. 

 

Since the crows didnt build any roads you would need to run I-40 to Hwy 22 and go north to US 79 which is the main drag in McKenzie. (130 miles) or find another route to get on 79 to get there. I know there is a way to do it like that I just dont remember it exactly.

 

It isnt but a blink of a town but Bethel (Est. 1842) is a growing school that only recently changed from Bethel College to Bethel University (something about size or accreditations). The school is the largest employer and I suppose the Tractor Supply and Feed Store would be #2. I'm guessing but I would say 10K people or so if that.

[LowBb]

Pardon my ignorance but does this new law state as of the enactment date it will be legal to keep a firearm in a car in ALL parking lots? Public schools regardless of postings? Edited March 18, 2013 by LowBb

[Jesse]

Dont tell people you keep a gun in your car and dont hint that you carry soon as you get off work.

They can conclude the gun is kept in your car.

[Dolomite_supafly]

It has never been against the law to have a firearm in your vehicle on school property. This law has been in effect for as long as I have had my HCP.

 

The way I read it as long as you are not a student you can posses a firearm in your vehicle while on school property.

 

I am still loking but there is another section in the TCA that states you can legally leave your firearm in your vehicle if you find yourself in a area that does not allow firearms.

39-17-1309. Carrying weapons on school property.

(a) As used in this section, "weapon of like kind" includes razors and razor blades, except those used solely for personal shaving, and any sharp pointed or edged instrument, except unaltered nail files and clips and tools used solely for preparation of food, instruction and maintenance.

( B) (1) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, with the intent to go armed, any firearm, explosive, explosive weapon, bowie knife, hawk bill knife, ice pick, dagger, slingshot, leaded cane, switchblade knife, blackjack, knuckles or any other weapon of like kind, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution.

(2) A violation of this subsection ( B) is a Class E felony.

(c) (1) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any firearm, not used solely for instructional or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution. It is not an offense under this subsection (c) for a nonstudent adult to possess a firearm, if the firearm is contained within a private vehicle operated by the adult and is not handled by the adult, or by any other person acting with the expressed or implied consent of the adult, while the vehicle is on school property.

(2) A violation of this subsection (c) is a Class B misdemeanor.

(d) (1) Each chief administrator of a public or private school shall display in prominent locations about the school a sign, at least six inches (6'') high and fourteen inches (14'') wide, stating:

FELONY. STATE LAW PRESCRIBES A MAXIMUM PENALTY OF SIX (6) YEARS IMPRISONMENT AND A FINE NOT TO EXCEED THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS ($3,000) FOR CARRYING WEAPONS ON SCHOOL PROPERTY.

(2) As used in this subsection (d), "prominent locations about a school" includes, but is not limited to, sports arenas, gymnasiums, stadiums and cafeterias.

(e) The provisions of subsections ( B) and (c) do not apply to the following persons:

(1) Persons employed in the army, air force, navy, coast guard or marine service of the United States or any member of the Tennessee national guard when in discharge of their official duties and acting under orders requiring them to carry arms or weapons;

(2) Civil officers of the United States in the discharge of their official duties;

(3) Officers and soldiers of the militia and the national guard when called into actual service;

(4) Officers of the state, or of any county, city or town, charged with the enforcement of the laws of the state, when in the discharge of their official duties;

(5) Any pupils who are members of the reserve officers training corps or pupils enrolled in a course of instruction or members of a club or team, and who are required to carry arms or weapons in the discharge of their official class or team duties;

(6) Any private police employed by the administration or board of trustees of any public or private institution of higher education in the discharge of their duties; and

(7) Any registered security guard/officer who meets the requirements of title 62, chapter 35, and who is discharging the officer's official duties.

HISTORY: Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1; 1990, ch. 1029, § 8; 1991, ch. 510, §§ 1-3; 1996, ch. 1009, § 24.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Dolomite_supafly

[Dolomite_supafly]

And here is another reaffirmation of what I was saying above.

 

39-17-1310. Affirmative defense to carrying weapons on school property.

It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under § 39-17-1309(a)-(d) that the person's behavior was in strict compliance with the requirements of one (1) of the following classifications:

(1) A person hunting during the lawful hunting season on lands owned by any public or private educational institution and designated as open to hunting by the administrator of the educational institution;

(2) A person possessing unloaded hunting weapons while transversing the grounds of any public or private educational institution for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting with the intent to hunt on the public or private lands unless the lands of the educational institution are posted prohibiting entry;

(3) A person possessing guns or knives when conducting or attending "gun and knife shows" and the program has been approved by the administrator of the educational institution; or

(4) A person entering the property for the sole purpose of delivering or picking up passengers and who does not remove, utilize or allow to be removed or utilized any weapon from the vehicle.

[JayC]

No, it wouldn't be considered ex post facto anymore than changing the dress code, or prohibiting smoking on company property.  

 

Should said business be able to fire you for having a copy of the Constitution, tape recorder, video camera, golf clubs or any other legal thing kept in your vehicle out of sight and unhandled?

If that restriction was not a part of the agreement upon your hiring, would it be considered ex post facto to institute such a restriction now that this law has been posted as a public chapter?

 

[Jesse]

What if you were an adult picking up your child from school and you seen someone starting to shoot kids....would you get in trouble if you got your gun out and shot the shooter?

[JayC]

Thats not exactly true, it's been against the law for college students to keep a firearm in their car, and still is until this law goes into effect.

 

Now, college students with permits appear to be able to keep firearms in their cars on college campuses, and not be charged with a crime.  Now the school may try and expel the student if caught for violating some school policy, but not criminally charged.

 

It has never been against the law to have a firearm in your vehicle on school property. This law has been in effect for as long as I have had my HCP.

 

The way I read it as long as you are not a student you can posses a firearm in your vehicle while on school property.

 

I am still loking but there is another section in the TCA that states you can legally leave your firearm in your vehicle if you find yourself in a area that does not allow firearms.

 

[Dolomite_supafly]

It has been perfectly legal for me, and anyone else who is not a student, to go onto any campus with a firearm in a vehicle. Only students were not allowed to do the same. Which makes me wonder why employees could not have a firearm in their car other than because of school policy. Seems it is "legal" for a teacher or administrator to have a firearm in their car based on how the law is written because they are not students.

 

Dolomite

[Worriedman]

Why does a business owner have to agree not to fire you unless you violate a pre-determined set of rules? As a business owner, I don't want the state to tell me who I can fire and who I can't. It is not the government's job to make business owners give "proper" reason for firing someone. I don't understand why people want the government to interfere when we agree with it, but not when we are against it. The government just needs to stay out of it.

 

We don't have a right of employment. We have a right to our firearms... but we also have a right to our own property. You would not want the government to tell you who you can and cannot kick out of your house.. its the same thing.

Jump up then and get petitions going to repeal all restrictive ordinances against materials that can be used in construction of a business, what use any piece of property can be put to regardless of where it lies.  If one truly wants unlimited personal control of property, the there should be no control by government of any type for anything.  That mindset would negate all ADA regulations, but I do not see anyone championing the repeal of those.

Funny how it seems to only be a firearms issue that brings out the anarchist in many.  Nobody wants a lead smelter to be allowed next door to their kid's school, but under the scenario of zero government intrusion, that would be permissible.

[Guest ab28]

I wouldn't be surprised if some employers decide to have you sign something to the effect that you won't bring a gun on their property.  Then again nothing much surprises me these days.

Wouldn't matter, just sign the paper and bring the gun anyways. I have learned to ignore parts of contracts that mention idiocy like that.

[Guest Cami]

That's exactly what I would do.

[JayC]

I think the concern is 39-17-1309a1, some have speculated that one could be at risk for charge under that law (a felony) for merely having firearm in their car that was loaded.  It's been a grey area under the law which appears will be removed under this new law on July 1st.

 

It has been perfectly legal for me, and anyone else who is not a student, to go onto any campus with a firearm in a vehicle. Only students were not allowed to do the same. Which makes me wonder why employees could not have a firearm in their car other than because of school policy. Seems it is "legal" for a teacher or administrator to have a firearm in their car based on how the law is written because they are not students.

 

Dolomite

 

[QuietDan]

What if you were an adult picking up your child from school and you seen someone starting to shoot kids....would you get in trouble if you got your gun out and shot the shooter?

 

There's a provision in the TCA that others can probably quote chapter and verse that says if you are using a gun in a valid self-defense or others-defense situation, all the other administrative trivia falls by the wayside. I think it says that self-defense is an "affirmative defense" for the use of the gun.

[Tim Nunan]

Even student adults on college campuses?

 

No, only college staff and instructors.

[JAB]

We don't have a right of employment. We have a right to our firearms... but we also have a right to our own property. You would not want the government to tell you who you can and cannot kick out of your house.. its the same thing.

 

So why is it bad for someone to tell you how to manage your property but okay for an employer to tell me what I can or can't store inside the confines of MY private property - my vehicle?  After all, my vehicle remains MY private property no matter where it happens to be parked.  The idea that an employer's property rights should be 'protected' from something that really doesn't impact his/her rights by allowing said employer to take actions that do interfere with MY private property rights kind of seems like a conflicting statement, to me.

 

In other words, the employer has the right to tell me that I can or can't park my car on his/her property - and that is as far as it goes.  He/She does not have the right to interfere with my right to store an otherwise legal item inside the confines of MY private property nor should he/she be legally allowed to do so as a requirement for employment nor for any, other reason.  Ever.  Period.

Edited March 18, 2013 by JAB

[Oh Shoot]

No, only college staff and instructors.

 

As far as the new law, that's wrong. ANY person with a carry permit (from any state) may now store their loaded weapons in their privately owned vehicles.

 

The existing exception for "non student adults" seems almost certainly to only cover unloaded firearms, though I've never seen even an AG opinion on that.

 

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

It has been perfectly legal for me, and anyone else who is not a student, to go onto any campus with a firearm in a vehicle. Only students were not allowed to do the same. ...

 

As generally interpreted, only:

 

- picking up/dropping off passengers: according to other TN laws (with permit, loaded, without permit, unloaded)

- storing in car: unloaded for all non-student adults

 

New law allows stashing loaded firearm for anyone with a carry permit from any state.

 

- OS

Edited March 18, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[monkeylizard]

It seems pretty simple to me.

If the parking lot was legally off-limits by state law before, it's no longer that way for HCP holders once the law goes into effect. Federal properties excluded.

 

Being legal <> being OK

 

One can still be fired if there is a policy against it, but there won't be any legal charges for it.

It remains to be seen if students can be expelled or not, but like employees, won't face criminal charges (assuming all other legal requirements are met).

Edited March 18, 2013 by monkeylizard

[Guest Mbeck]

Jump up then and get petitions going to repeal all restrictive ordinances against materials that can be used in construction of a business, what use any piece of property can be put to regardless of where it lies.  If one truly wants unlimited personal control of property, the there should be no control by government of any type for anything.  That mindset would negate all ADA regulations, but I do not see anyone championing the repeal of those.

Funny how it seems to only be a firearms issue that brings out the anarchist in many.  Nobody wants a lead smelter to be allowed next door to their kid's school, but under the scenario of zero government intrusion, that would be permissible.

 

I am against a lot of the government rules and regs on those types of things. but this is apples and oranges. Most of those types of things that you are listing are safety concernes that impact the health or wellbeing of customers and employees. I am for reasonable measures to keep people safe, but outside of small common sense safety rules.. I am against the government intruding on any of my rights.

 

 

 

So why is it bad for someone to tell you how to manage your property but okay for an employer to tell me what I can or can't store inside the confines of MY private property - my vehicle?  After all, my vehicle remains MY private property no matter where it happens to be parked.  The idea that an employer's property rights should be 'protected' from something that really doesn't impact his/her rights by allowing said employer to take actions that do interfere with MY private property rights kind of seems like a conflicting statement, to me.

 

In other words, the employer has the right to tell me that I can or can't park my car on his/her property - and that is as far as it goes.  He/She does not have the right to interfere with my right to store an otherwise legal item inside the confines of MY private property nor should he/she be legally allowed to do so as a requirement for employment nor for any, other reason.  Ever.  Period.

 

That statement makes no sense. They are telling you that you cannot park your car there if they know you have guns in it... you don't have to tell them. They are asking to search your vehicle.. you don't have to let them. They are paying you to work for them, you don't have to work there. They have given you a job.. they can take it away.

 

I think there is an issue with people not understanding the difference between laws and rules. Living under a law is not a choice that we can make. We are bound to follow them because we the people created them. If we don't like a law, we can change it, but until then we must abide by it, or suffer the consequences.

 

Living under a rule is our choice. Rules do not carry the penalty of law. We can break them, and the worst thing that can happen is that we are thrown out/off of someone's private property. If we don't like the rule, we can ignore it or simply choose to not be on the private property that the rule is enacted upon.

 

We must be able to set our own rules on our own property. You are throwing away your property rights if you lobby for government control of other people's property.