What are the best AR brands?

[jgradyc]

Thanks for all the comments. This is an interesting thread. Let me clarify one point, I live in the country and 911 response is usually 10+ minutes. By "home defense," I don't mean just within the house. I mean nearby, should the need arise to check something out outside the house. We've had numerous burglaries nearby and one home invasion. My primary house guns right now are a Kel Tec Sub 2000 near the bedroom door, an XD40 by the bed, and a 20 gauge pump near the downstairs entry. The AR/AK would probably augment/replace the 20 gauge.

[vujade]

I got the following list below from a friend of a friend when I started to ask about ARs  

 

The * that shows "preference" were done by him and not I.  This is just HIS list.  I don't agree/disagree one way or another.  I'm just sharing what was shared with me as i started down this path and asked the same questions (what optic to get, what handguards are good, what barrel is best, etc. etc.)

 

 

 

 

* = My Personal Preference

Commercial Grade AR Companies (ranked worst to best):

- Kel-Tec
- Defense Procurement Manufacturing Services (DPMS, Panther Arms)
- Inter Ordnance Incorporated (I.O. Inc.)
- Olympic Arms
- Para Ordnance
- Dave Selvaggio Arms (DSA)
- Charles Daly
- Del-Ton
- Central Missouri Machine Gun (CMMG)
- DoubleStar
- Bushmaster/Remington
- Sig Sauer
- Alexander Arms
- Rock River Arms (RRA)
- Armalite
- Smith & Wesson (S&W) *
- Stag Arms/ CMT *
- Ruger
- Yankee Hill Machinery (YHM)


Premium Commercial AR Companies
- Patriot Ordnance Factory - USA (POF)
- JP Enterprises *
- Wilson Combat
- Les Baer Custom



Recommended Mil-Spec Style Rifles:
- Robinson Arms
- Palmetto State Armory (PSA)
- Spikes Tactical (ST)
- Barrett
- Sabre Defense
- Colt         <-------- Combat Rifle Standard
- American Armament Corporation (AAC)
- Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM) *
- Daniel Defense (and Ambush Firearms) *
- Lewis Machine & Tool (LMT)
- Primary Weapon Systems (PWS)
- Fabrique Nationale d'Herstal (FN) <-------- Combat Rifle Standard


Premium Mil-Spec Precision Manufacturers (the best of the best)
- Hekler & Koch (H&K)
- LaRue Tactical *
- Land Warfare Resources Corp. (LWRC)
- Noveske Rifleworks
- Knights Armory Company (KAC)



Need More Research:
-Adams Arms
- Spirit of Arms
- Blackheart
- Wendham Armory
- Sun Devil
- R Guns
- Core
- Elite Arms
- Adcore Defense



Some AR-22 companies:
- Colt/Umerax
- Sig Sauer
- Mossberg
- Chaippa
- S&W *
- CMMG
- Stag
- HK


Recommended general AR accessory companies:

On a budget:
- Magpul *
- Spikes
- ADM
- Troy
- Midwest Industries
- Harris
- Streamlight
- Lasermax
- Crimson Trace
- Insight Technologies

Premium:
- PRI
- Magpul
- VLTOR
- LaRue *
- PWS
- Tangodown
- Lancer
- Mega
- Blue Force
- Vickers Tactical
- Surefire *
- Raytheon
- Butler Creek
- Falcon Industries
- KNS Precision
- Atlas
- Pelican
- Storm
- Fail Zero



Avoid these AR accessory companies:
- UTG
- YHM
- Tapco
- American Tactical International (ATI)
- ProMag
- Blackhawk
- C-Products
- NcStar
- Uncle Mikes
- Young Manufacturing



Top Optics Companies:
- Aimpoint *
- Eotech
- Trijicon *
- US Optics
- Nightforce
- Leupold
- Zeiss
- Shmidt & Bender *
- Weaver
- Swarovski


Top Mounts:
- Larue Tactical *
- American Defense Manufacturing (ADM)
- BOBRO



Recommended Barrel Manufacturers:
- Obermeyer
- PAC-NOR (Noveske) *
- White Oak Armament
- FN
- Lother Walther
- Daniel Defense
- Shilen
- Krieger *
- Douglas (Superior)
- Hart
- Lilja
- Ranier UltraMatch

Top Trigger manufacturers:
- Geissele *
- Timney
- Chip McCormick
- Wilson Combat
- JP Enterprises

Rcommended AR Magazine Companies:
- Magpul *
- PRI
- Tangodown
- Lancer
- Beta-Mags
- Troy


Top Rail Manufacturers:
- PRI
- LWRC
- Daniel Defense *
- Centurion
- KAC
- LaRue Tactical *
- VLTOR


Recommended muzzle device manufacturers
- Surefire *
- PWS
- Smith Enterprises
- AAC
- SJC
- Troy
- JP Enterprises

Recommended Iron Sights
- Troy *
- A.R.M.S.
- Daniel Defense
- LMT
- PRI

Recommended stocks:

Magpul:
- CTR
- ACS-L
- UBR *
- PRS

VLTOR
- IMOD *
- EMOD

LaRue - R.A.T.
LMT - B5 Enhanced SOPMOD



 

[orientalexpress]

I'm not even a huge Colt fan. I only have 1 6920 however as people are learning during the panic buy that all parts are not created equal. Bolts are shearing lugs because they either weren't treated right not they're using inferior steel. Things like that are my likely to happen when companies like Colt use the proper steel and Hp, and MPI their parts. Just because they have crappy finishes doesn't make them less than a DD or BCM. By your car analogy then they're a corvette with a crappy paint job but it doesn't mean it doesn't perform well. Also personally I'm not completely sold on CHF barrels. CHF was developed to mass produce barrels quickly and efficiently. Does that mean its neccessarily better? I don't really know.

[79troublehead]

I've been happy with the sig m400.  I tried the DPMS, it wasn't bad.

[Mykltn]

As far as AR's, I personally like Sig Sauer and Core 15. If I had to choose, Core 15.

I've got a core 15 and its a great gun for the money. Rock river is a dependable brand also but I've only had their pistol. Wouldn't think the rifle would be much different.

[crossfire]

I have a Sabre Defense that shoots better then me :2cents:

[Guest Victor9er]

I'm not even a huge Colt fan. I only have 1 6920 however as people are learning during the panic buy that all parts are not created equal. Bolts are shearing lugs because they either weren't treated right not they're using inferior steel. Things like that are my likely to happen when companies like Colt use the proper steel and Hp, and MPI their parts. Just because they have crappy finishes doesn't make them less than a DD or BCM. By your car analogy then they're a corvette with a crappy paint job but it doesn't mean it doesn't perform well. Also personally I'm not completely sold on CHF barrels. CHF was developed to mass produce barrels quickly and efficiently. Does that mean its neccessarily better? I don't really know.

 

The car analogy isn't the best, if I were to make a comparison I'd say that a Colt AR is like a Glock. Nothing fancy, no bells and whistles, but it's solid, reliable, and proven. That makes it a great gun for the price. But that doesn't make it a "top tier" weapon. There's still a market for a Nighthawk, you're going to pay more for it than you would a Glock. Does that make one better than the other? Well, it depends on what you're looking for.

 

Some people get all butthurt if you don't say a Colt is the cream of the crop. No one is saying they are crap guns or anything. But they are what they are. Hell, Remmington recently took over the military contract away from Colt, I don't hear anyone going to bat for them. They are "true milspec" just like Colt, are you going to include them in the top tier also?

[mikegideon]

This could go in circles for days, so I'll perpetuate the circular regurgitation.

I don't think Rock River is a 'low tier' manufacturer to be lumped in with DPMS or similar. I'd buy a RRA any day over a Bushmaster

 

RRA is great stuff. Definately not low end.

[jgradyc]

I got the following list below from a friend of a friend when I started to ask about ARs  

 

The * that shows "preference" were done by him and not I.  This is just HIS list.  I don't agree/disagree one way or another. 
 

 

Wow! Thanks for posting this. I laughed when he ranked Kel Tec last. He may be right, but most Kel Tec buyers who've researched their purchase already know that. Kel Tecs are guns for tinkerers. Parts are cheap and they have a great forum...KTOG.  With a little diligence, they can be dependable. I've owned... let's see... five.

[dlm37015]

i have a hydra- matic mid 60s mfg i like it a lot

[mikegideon]

i have a hydra- matic mid 60s mfg i like it a lot

 

...and I need to borrow it while I still have a buttload of ammo. :)

[dlm37015]

...and I need to borrow it while I still have a buttload of ammo. :)

i got 40 cases of federal 100 round packs today so now i got a butt  load

[mikegideon]

i got 40 cases of federal 100 round packs today so now i got a butt  load

 

Well then... let's make a little noise :). You're working too hard right now anyway.

[No_0ne]

OP's question is basically rhetorical, as none of the above are generally obtainable now for pre-panic prices...

[mikegideon]

OP's question is basically rhetorical, as none of the above are generally obtainable now for pre-panic prices...

 

Even thought prices are high, and/or the wait is long, the best is still the best. No short term situation is gonna make DPMS a top line rifle.

[trevorst]

There are good and bad rifles from nearly all manufacturers. One of the poorest put together rifles I have ever owned was a Rock River, doesn't mean they are all bad. I had to send my Daniel Defense back because it was way more finicky than it should have been, still a good manufacturer (and superb customer service). And I have a DPMS in 260 rem that I would and have shot against rifles costing 5x as much. My cheapo smith sport has truly never failed to fire and its round count is way up there, my best friends 6920 struggles with cheap steel ammo (as does my DD).

It is like buying a car there are rifles made on Friday at 530 and rifles made on Monday morning. It truly is some luck of the draw and all makers will make some lemons.

[mikegideon]

Yep. DPMS rifles always seem to work. I put all my AR's together. Since it's the IBM PC of rifles, you can build one with a wide range of quality. I had great luck with an RRA upper, except for their stupid lead time. All of my rifles run really well. Some have some cheap parts, and some have great parts. I trust the MPI tested BCG's more than the cheap ones, even though they all work. If I ever have to rely on one, it will be the one that has the high end perts.

Edited March 15, 2013 by mikegideon

[enfield]

The subjective ratings that the various brands receive are all hearsay and not the result of actual ownership, side-by-side comparison, etc.  Who knows anyone who actually wore out an AR?

 

But if you wear tactical sunglasses and have a TV show, your opinion counts extra.

 

Just my opinion.  No sunglasses, no camera.  :D

[crashgordan]

This could go in circles for days, so I'll perpetuate the circular regurgitation.

I don't think Rock River is a 'low tier' manufacturer to be lumped in with DPMS or similar. I'd buy a RRA any day over a Bushmaster

 

this.

 

interesting feedback here... 

 

it would honestly be easier to list the 4-6 to stay away from.

 

much of what we tend to recomend is based on what we hear, read, and possibly even own.  generally here, few have been deployed or shoot for a living and the collective wisdom is from the hobby or competition perspective. Which is certainly of value. 

 

i'd like to add; (and its my humble opinion based on thousands of hours in this stuff)

 

there are basically  two levels of rifle.  hobby grade (which can encompass the whole spectrum from junk to competition to super exotic kryptonunobtanium) and fighting grade.  after that, it's all about fit and finish, how rare/common/exotic/... blahblahblah.  one can get caught up in the minutia pretty quickly.

 

if you can only have one, it might change where you set the bar on this purchase.  with care and information you can purchase a fighting grade rifle for about $1200-1500.  even in the current market.  

 

 

 

if i can get some time i have catalogued the known forges and their trademark machining and forgeflash signatures.  (rarely known and little discussed minutia)

 

There are only a few actual forges for recievers who then sell to the companies that mill them out to their own specs then sell with their rollmarks on them... 

The metalurgy of say, 6061 T6 alum. vs. 7075 T6 aluminum happens at the forge.

the level of machine work is the next step, and for a few, this is where things fall apart. 

some manufacturers have a higher standard, in that they are ISO9000 etc. rated.  many will spout their "milspec" stats. and some may even be legit. 

milspec is only a baseline.  be sure and understand that the military does not require the best.  Rather, the lowest bid that can manufacture to a known standard wins. 

 

some crap rifles run great.   

some very exotic and spendy rifles run like crap.  i've seen both and run both. 

 

 

in the meantime, perhaps the better advice would be, what to avoid.  this is a great collective of shooters with knowlege (and some experience) and i learn a great deal here... 

 

"release the hounds!"

Edited March 14, 2013 by crashgordan

[Jonnin]

That big list is wonky --- kel tec does not even make an AR.  They make 223 caliber rifles and a pistol, but it is their own design, not ar-15 design and almost no parts are usable across them (you can use stuff like forends and doo-dads but internal parts are a no-go).   So how a company that does not produce the product can be on the list confuses me.  It does make sense that their lack of product scored low, though.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Jonnin

[Krull]

Bravo Company makes a very solid platform, Daniel Defense has served me well.....A little pricey but very good craftmanship.

 

Bravo company does not do backorders -- if it is in stock you get it and their web site stays updated. 

Edited March 14, 2013 by Krull

[crashgordan]

can't find my documents yet, but heres a follow up from my above post...  it's an interesting and informative read.  I would like to point out that the information is a bit dated and there are 1 or two additional forges stamping out forged recievers...

also, this in no way accounts for the manufacturers who are machining billet lowers and uppers...

 

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/318113_.html

 

 

i love daniels defense, even before they were cool...

 

and while theres a ton of rifle builders who can beat the hell outa their product and it will still run, this vid is impressive.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1kX0nCEh5E&feature=player_embedded#!

 

 

i have built on and personally owned Hesse/Vulcan/century/black rain ordnance and Olympic Arms plinkers simply as test mules, and would say without exception they are ones i would not choose to bet my life on.  perhaps fine for tinkering or range play. sorry if this offends anyone, again just my experience.  whill they shoot bullets down range?  sure..  but in my experience quality is generally low and all over the place... 

 

some poop on CMMG, my findings are that while they are entry level stuff, they will run.

some don't like double star...  i have yet to find one that won't run if built correctly and if spect right damn accurate)

some crap on DPMS...  whatever. i've run some that shoot circles around the spendy boutique rifles.  they do build their some of lowers out of 6061-T6, which i personally dont care for... the 7.62 forgings are 7075 T6, which for many is a good thing.

this list goes on. 

i personally don't and won't bet my life on any of the above, but if i had no other choice, it might be different... a double star would be it.

some don't care for this or that or whatever... if the forgings are good, the milling is in spec, and the finish pleases you, go with it.  if you can only have one, get a good one and run it hard. 

i personally prefer factory built rifles from specific manufacturers vs a 'custom' for social work. 

 

here's a list of a few i own and have and do bet my life on ONLY after i've verified correctly built meaning good quality FCG, BCG, torque settings etc...

 

BCM

Spikes Tactical

S&W

Rock River

 

and a list of off the rack guns i have experience with and would gladly bet my life on (not exhaustive by any means):  in order of basic pricepoint:

Palmetto state (say what you will, this stuff is built right and a great deal)

YHM

Daniels Defense

Noveske

 

 

for the general consumer, there are so many variables as manufacturers source parts from the best deal for a reasonable profit margin so they can stay in business, and this changes often for some. 

 

Good Luck and let us know what you settle on... 

Edited March 14, 2013 by crashgordan

[Blitzen]

Ranier Arms put together an upper for me, some parts supplied by me and some by them. Excellent build quality. I like the Vltor upper without forward assist which they keep in stock. At least before the run. They were great to work with. I would suspect their complete rifles would be top notch.

[10ga]

I got my first AR last week, DPMS Sportical. I haven't really shot many but I honestly love this thing. Put a set of flip-ups on it till I figure out what optic to get and it shoots great. I shoot .22's 90% of the time so it probably won't get that much use. From what I've read, it's probably the cheapest and not what most AR enthusiast would want but it was in my budget and will probably do me for a while. 

[Rightwinger]

This could go in circles for days, so I'll perpetuate the circular regurgitation.

I don't think Rock River is a 'low tier' manufacturer to be lumped in with DPMS or similar. I'd buy a RRA any day over a Bushmaster

 

Another Rock River fan.  Never found an issue with them other than having to wait for their product because of their popularity.