Has Zimmerman Waived His Right to a Pre-Trial "Stand-Your-Ground" Hearing?

[RobertNashville]

...I'm guessing the Martins don't really care who pays, as long as they get paid.

I think he's got it!!!

[DaveTN]

 

:dropjaw: Have either of you READ this thread or maybe noticed the title of the thread? :dropjaw:
 
The thread was started to answer that question and the question has been answered in the ORIGINAL post.

 I apologize Robert; I’m old and I have slept this this thread started. Thank you for keeping us in line. Now give us your opinion on the second part of my question; will an acquittal protect Zimmerman from a civil suit?

[DaveTN]

 

The way I have always understood TN law, if you're not guilty, you're not liable. TN law was modeled after the Florida laws. I'm guessing the Martins don't really care who pays, as long as they get paid.

 My interpretation of the Tennessee law is that you need a court ruling you are justified to protect you from a civil suit. But that should be an easy one for one of our Tennessee attorneys to answer.

[QuietDan]

 

I can't help but wonder if knowing that even a very clean self-defense shoot, such as this one, even where the good guy wins the fight, can nevertheless end up consuming that person's life for over a year, cost them somewhere in the neighborhood of $500,000 to $1,000,000 in legal fees, and destroy any future normalcy in their life, how all that might not make the next "George Zimmerman" put up with just another second or two of a beat down before they pull their licensed CCW to defend themselves--assuming that extra second or two of head-concrete introductions doesn't eliminate the brain function necessary to make such a decision.

 

Zimmerman's already paid a high price for saving his own life that night, even if he's properly acquitted.

 

I don't see how this doesn't have a potentially powerful chilling effect on a lot of folks who CCW.  It's hardly the kind of "good guy with gun foils bad guy, all ends well" paragraphs one finds in the Armed Citizen section of the NRA mags.  

 

Andrew

@LawSelfDefense

Facebook:  Law of Self Defense

 

After Zimmerman wins his case (knock wood), I would very much like to see him initiate a multi-million-dollar civil suit against the deep pockets of the major media, the race shysters, and others for damages, pain and suffering. Then, I hope he picks an excellent ghostwriter who can write up the whole story and earn him millions of dollars more.

 

It's in my dreams, but I also think that reality would support it. I would like to see this type of attack shut down in the future due to the risk of severe financial damage to the perpetrators of such schemes and have it reinforced with appropriate State and Federal legislation.

Edited June 17, 2013 by QuietDan

[RobertNashville]

 
 I apologize Robert; I’m old and I have slept this this thread started. Thank you for keeping us in line. Now give us your opinion on the second part of my question; will an acquittal protect Zimmerman from a civil suit?

As Mike said, in TN and I suspect as it is in FL, protection against civil liability is contingent on the used of deadly force being determined to be justified. Perhaps Andrew can comment on this more but I'm confident that being charged (which rather assumes the use of force wasn't justified) and then found not guilty equals a determination that the use of deadly force was justified and provides protection.

Edited June 17, 2013 by RobertNashville

[RobertNashville]

After Zimmerman wins his case (knock wood), I would very much like to see him initiate a multi-million civil suit against the deep pockets of the major media, the race shysters, and others for damages, pain and suffering. Then, I hope he picks an excellent ghostwriter who can write up the whole story and earn him millions of dollars more.

 

It's in my dreams, but I also think that reality would support it. I would like to see this type of attack shut down in the future due to the risk of severe financial damage to the perpetrators of such schemes and have it reinforced with appropriate State and Federal legislation.

I'd just like to see the FBI or someone go after the Black Panthers for publicly calling for Zimmerman's murder.

[whitewolf001]

I'd just like to see the FBI or someone go after the Black Panthers for publicly calling for Zimmerman's murder.

 

Why would Obama allow that to his 'Brown Shirts'?

[RichardR]

I'd just like to see the FBI or someone go after the Black Panthers for publicly calling for Zimmerman's murder.

I don't see that happening, at least not under the current administration's justice department, nor do I see them "cracking down" on any potential racial rioting in this trial's aftermath.

In fact I predict that the opposite will happen, if any local law enforcement take direct action against the rioters/looters they can expect the federal government to come down on them for "civil rights violations".

[Sam1]

I don't see that happening, at least not under the current administration's justice department, nor do I see them "cracking down" on any potential racial rioting in this trial's aftermath.

In fact I predict that the opposite will happen, if any local law enforcement take direct action against the rioters/looters they can expect the federal government to come down on them for "civil rights violations".

 

 

You all need to drop the claims of riots, if this happens it will be considered "workplace violence".  Riots are completely different 

 

 

 

:rofl:

Edited June 17, 2013 by Sam1

[Guest Law of Self Defense]

Zimmerman Jury Selection -- Day Six Wrap-Up

 

Hey folks,

 

I just posted up the end-of-day wrap-up for day six of jury selection in the Zimmerman case, available at Legal Insurrection here: [URL=http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-jury-selection-day-six-wrap-up/]Zimmerman Jury Selection -- Day Six Wrap-Up.[/URL]

 

There were two notable jurors of the day:

 

H13 seemed to feel that the fact that Zimmerman was armed, even though lawfully, at the time of the incident suggested some wrongdoing on his part.  Clearly, his being armed made her uncomfortable.  She also recalled having "lived through" other racially-tinged riots, such as the Rodney King riots (albeit it seems she was not physically present at those riots, but knew of them from media reports).  The most shocking of her comments, however, was when she noted that her present recollection was that Zimmerman had followed Martin against police orders.  Asked if she would be able to reconsider that opinion if she heard evidence in court to the contrary she answers "I don't think I could be open to that."  H13 was dismissed by the Court.

 

(For a thorough debunking of the false "Zimmerman followed Martin against police orders" narrative, click here:  [URL=http://lawofselfdefense.com/zimmerman-trial-myth-busters-did-zimmerman-chase-martin-against-police-orders/]Zimmerman Trial: Myth Busters: Did Zimmerman “chase” Martin against police orders?[/URL])

 

H27 was well-informed about the case, and could recall hearing the various police recordings and other details.  It has been a striking consistency that the prospective jurors who have appeared to learn in favor of Zimmerman have tended to be well-informed about the facts of the case, whereas prospective jurors who have seemed to lean against Zimmerman have professed an almost coma-like ignorance of the facts of the case.  During questioning by de la Rionda H27 volunteered that he had contributed $20 to George Zimmerman's legal defense fund, but nevertheless said he could be a fair and impartial juror. H27 was ultimately dismissed by the Court.

 

For all the juicy details, click here:  [URL=http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-jury-selection-day-six-wrap-up/]Zimmerman Jury Selection -- Day Six Wrap-Up.[/URL]

 

Following the wrap-up of prospective juror voir dire the court recessed, only to return to complete the Frye hearing that had been left unfinished the week prior to the start of jury selection.  For more on that, click here:  

 

Zimmerman Trial: Frye Hearing Continues with Prof. James L. Wayman

 

http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-frye-hearing-continues-with-prof-james-l-wayman/

 

Tomorrow we'll do another full day of live stream, all-day coverage of day seven of jury selection.  Be sure to join us.

 

Best,

 

Andrew

@LawSelfDefense

[URL=https://www.facebook.com/pages/Law-of-Self-Defense/176397865719110]Facebook:  Law of Self Defense[/URL]

[TripleDigitRide]

Somewhat interesting that religion not allowing judgment would be a legitimate reason for not participating in jury duty. That could eliminate at least 80% of the population. 

[mikegideon]

 

whereas prospective jurors who have seemed to lean against Zimmerman have professed an almost coma-like ignorance of the facts of the case. 

 

 

Good observation

[TripleDigitRide]

whereas prospective jurors who have seemed to lean against Zimmerman have professed an almost coma-like ignorance of the facts of the case. 

 

 

Preach it, brother!

Edited June 18, 2013 by TripleDigitRide

[Guest Law of Self Defense]

The Five Principles of the Law of Self Defense

 

Hey folks,

 

Well, we're gearing up for Day 7 of jury selection.  It's amazing to think that we've spent all this time with the jurors and we're still only doing the preliminary voir dire, limited to asking questions about pre-trial publicity.  If it takes an hour to get through a jury on that basis, and sometimes it has, how long is it going to take when the lawyers are doing an unlimited voir dire?

 

In any case, I thought it might be useful to take a moment, lift our heads from the weeds of jury selection and specific factual matters, and take a brief 30,000 foot view of the trial.

 

I've posted at some length about the State's challenges in proving the charge of murder in the second degree (can't be done, in my opinion), or manslaughter.  

 

As to manslaughter, petty much anytime you deliberately use any force against someone and they die it's going to be manslaughter--UNLESS you have some lawful justification.

 

And that's where Zimmerman's legal defense of self-defense will come into play.

 

A few days ago I put up a [URL=http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-case-the-five-principles-of-the-law-of-self-defense/]"self-defense backgrounder" post over at Legal Insurrection[/URL], but I don't believe I've mentioned it here so many of you might not have seen it.  

 

The post covers the four main Florida self-defense related statutes I expect to be relevant in this case, and the statutory criminal charges in play (murder and manslaughter).

 

I also present a conceptual framework, "[URL=http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-case-the-five-principles-of-the-law-of-self-defense/]The Five Principles of the Law of Self-Defense[/URL]," to guide our ongoing assessment of how successfully (or not) the State is making its case to disprove, beyond a reasonable doubt, Zimmerman's claim to have acted in lawful self-defense.

 

Enjoy!

 

Andrew

@LawSelfDefense

[URL=https://www.facebook.com/pages/Law-of-Self-Defense/176397865719110]Facebook:  Law of Self Defense[/URL]

[Guest Law of Self Defense]

Zimmerman Jury Selection:  Day 7--Live streaming, all-day coverage

 

Hey folks,

 

Just FYI, Day 7 of jury selection has just kicked into gear.  [URL=http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-trial-live-jury-selection-day-7-all-day-coverage/]Our live, all-day coverage can be found at Legal Insurrection here[/URL], if you're interested in following along.

 

We'll also be doing our usual end-of-day summary of events.  I'll drop a brief note when that's up, for folks who are interested.

 

Andrew

@LawSelfDefense

[URL=https://www.facebook.com/pages/Law-of-Self-Defense/176397865719110]Facebook:  Law of Self Defense[/URL]

[RobertNashville]

 
 My interpretation of the Tennessee law is that you need a court ruling you are justified to protect you from a civil suit. But that should be an easy one for one of our Tennessee attorneys to answer.

Simply not being charged is not sufficient under TN law, even if a person isn't charged it's up to them to go to the court and seen a determination that the shooting was justified.

[RichardR]

Thank you Andrew, I appreciate all of the updates, information & your personal insight.

Mega-kuddo's to you sir!

[Guest nra37922]

So how the heck is a jury going to be seated when the ill-informed are ready to lynch him and those that know the facts of the case, as the facts are right now, are ready to release him.

[Guest Law of Self Defense]

Thank you Andrew, I appreciate all of the updates, information & your personal insight.

Mega-kuddo's to you sir!

 

Thanks!

 

Andrew

@LawSelfDefense

[URL=https://www.facebook.com/pages/Law-of-Self-Defense/176397865719110]Facebook:  Law of Self Defense[/URL]

[Guest Law of Self Defense]

Myth Busters: Did Zimmerman “Chase Down” a Fleeing Martin?

 

Hey folks,

 

One of the enduring myths of the falsified public narrative promulgated by the State prosecutors and other anti-Zimmerman zealots has been that George Zimmerman “chased down” a frightened Trayvon Martin who was simply attempting to secure the safety of his destination (his father’s girlfriend’s home in at the Retreat at Twin Lakes neighborhood.

 

Is that what really happened?  Or is George Zimmerman’s recounting more credible and consistent with the facts in evidence?

 

[URL=http://lawofselfdefense.com/zimmerman-trial-myth-busters-did-zimmerman-chase-down-a-fleeing-martin/][/URL]

 

Take a look at my latest fact-based "myth busters" installment, and decide for yourselves:  [URL=http://lawofselfdefense.com/zimmerman-trial-myth-busters-did-zimmerman-chase-down-a-fleeing-martin/]Myth Busters: Did Zimmerman “Chase Down” a Fleeing Martin?[/URL]

 

Andrew

@LawSelfDefense

[URL=https://www.facebook.com/pages/Law-of-Self-Defense/176397865719110]Facebook:  Law of Self Defense[/URL]

[DaveS]

If someone was in front of you running (Zmans own words) what technique would yo use to catch him? Run? Chase? Crawl? Pursue? Think about? Phone a friend? What did Zman do to see, catch TM?

 

Just curious...

 

DS

[RobertNashville]

If someone was in front of you running (Zmans own words) what technique would yo use to catch him? Run? Chase? Crawl? Pursue? Think about? Phone a friend? What did Zman do to see, catch TM?

 

Just curious...

 

DS

You are never going to let logic of facts get in the way of your belief that Zimmerman is guilty will you. 

 

Did you even read the account he provided a link to? I'm betting you didn't.

Edited June 18, 2013 by RobertNashville

[Guest Law of Self Defense]

Goal of 40 Prospective Jurors for Full Voir Dire Achieved

 

Hey folks,

 

I just posted up the end-of-day wrap-up for day 7 of jury selection in the Zimmerman case, available at Legal Insurrection here:  [URL=http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-jury-selection-day-seven-wrap-up-2/]Zimmerman Jury Selection -- Day Seven Wrap-Up.[/URL]

 

The biggest news of the day is that the Court's goal of selecting 40 prospective jurors to go on to the next round of full voir dire has been achieved, and Judge Nelson dismissed the jurors who did not make it through the first round of questioning.  The lucky winners are:

 

B12, B29, B35, B37, B51, B61, B7, B72, B76, B86, E13, E22, E28, E40, E54, E6, E73, G14, G29, G47, G63, G66, G81, H18, H29, H35, H6, H69, H7, H81, H86, I19, I24, I33, I44, K80, K95, M75, P67,  I5.

 

We’ll be posting a compilation of our notes for each of these 40 in post coming soon.

 

The announcement of the successful candidate jurors having been announced, we saw a relatively rare appearance by Prosecutor Angela Corey, when she stepped to the front of the court room and directed the courthouse personnel in arranging the chairs for the jurors tomorrow morning.

 

For all the juicy details, click here:  [URL=http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/06/zimmerman-jury-selection-day-seven-wrap-up-2/]Zimmerman Jury Selection -- Day Seven Wrap-Up.[/URL]

 

Tomorrow we'll do another full day of live stream, all-day coverage of day eight of jury selection, the "Full Voir Dire Edition".  Be sure to join us.

 

Best,

 

Andrew

@LawSelfDefense

[URL=https://www.facebook.com/pages/Law-of-Self-Defense/176397865719110]Facebook:  Law of Self Defense[/URL]

[DaveS]

HLN (Head Line News) will hold an interview with Tracy Martin (Trayvon's dad) at 9pm tonight. Should be pretty interesting.

 

DS

[RobertNashville]

HLN (Head Line News) will hold an interview with Tracy Martin (Trayvon's dad) at 9pm tonight. Should be pretty interesting.

 

DS

Why would anything he has to day be either interesting or,  more importantly, relevant?

 

In any case, I don't ever expect to get either an interesting or a fair interview from CNN Headline News no matter who they are interviewing!

Edited June 19, 2013 by RobertNashville