Whoops, NY SAFE act bans pump shotguns

[Sam1]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/03/foghorn/new-york-state-accidentally-bans-pump-action-shotguns/#more-208045

[Volzfan]

Can't make me believe that was not intentional!

[JohnC]

But but but... what will Joe Biden tell you to fire in the air to scare off the bad guys now?

[Sam1]

But but but... what will Joe Biden tell you to fire in the air to scare off the bad guys now?

 

he wants you to use a double barreled shotgun, not a pump. Cause all you need is two rounds. having 3 rounds and up creates a national security hazard

[Guest carter]

well...it dosen't ban all pump shotguns... don't see where any would be banned actually, if you can have a 10 rnd mag , but only have 7 rounds loaded in it...

Edited March 8, 2013 by carter

[Sam1]

doesn't say it bans all pump shotguns, but as the article says, if you can fit eight 1-3/4" shells in one, then they are illegal. Says the writer can fit 10 shells in his stock 870 shotty

[Oh Shoot]

Well, I'd say it's much ado about not much, and grasping at straws.

 

“Capable of accepting more than seven rounds" is not the same as "capable of being modified to accept more than seven rounds".

 

So most pump shotguns on the market, and in people's hands, will be legit. Very few folks have more than a 7+1 pump shotgun.

 

Whole law sucks, but I don't think this part makes it suck more or less to speak of.

 

- OS

Edited March 9, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[strickj]

Well, I'd say it's much ado about not much, and grasping at straws.

 

“Capable of accepting more than seven rounds" is not the same as "capable of being modified to accept more than seven rounds".

 

So most pump shotguns on the market, and in people's hands, will be legit. Very few folks have more than a 7+1 pump shotgun.

 

Whole law sucks, but I don't think this part makes it suck more or less to speak of.

 

- OS

 

It says 1 3/4 shells. Those are the Aguila Minishells.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/255579/aguila-minishell-ammunition-12-gauge-1-3-4-5-8-oz-7-1-2-shot-box-of-20

 

I can fit 8 or 10 of those in stock Mossy

[Oh Shoot]

It says 1 3/4 shells. Those are the Aguila Minishells.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/255579/aguila-minishell-ammunition-12-gauge-1-3-4-5-8-oz-7-1-2-shot-box-of-20

 

I can fit 8 or 10 of those in stock Mossy

 

Oh, so you think they'll interpret it to mean any shotgun shell you can buy, eh?

 

Of course, it does further mention "....magazines that can be modified to"....
 

Who knows. They'll work it out there -- sounds  like state SCOTUS may well throw whole thing out and it goes to US SCOTUS. I can't hardly believe that since the state court put hold on it, they are going to be swayed by Cuomo's arguments regarding the constitutionality. I mean, if the court had considered a leg to stand on already, they wouldn't really have even delayed it, seems to me.

 

- OS

Edited March 9, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[tartanphantom]

Who knows. They'll work it out there -- sounds  like state SCOTUS may well throw whole thing out and it goes to US SCOTUS. I can't hardly believe that since the state court put hold on it, they are going to be swayed by Cuomo's arguments regarding the constitutionality. I mean, if the court had considered a leg to stand on already, they wouldn't really have even delayed it, seems to me.

 

- OS

 

Not exactly. Unlike Tennessee, the New York State Supreme Court is NOT the highest court in the state. Above it are the Appellate Division of the Supreme Court, and above everyone else is the New York Court of Appeals, which is the highest court in NY.. So there are at least two more levels of judicial review above the State Supreme Court. If the NYSC tosses it out, you can bet your bottom dollar that it WILL be taken to the next appellate level. The Cuomo-bots are not going to give in easily when they are so close to tyrannical success.

Edited March 9, 2013 by tartanphantom

[Oh Shoot]

Not exactly. Unlike Tennessee, the New York State Supreme Court is NOT the highest court in the state. Above it are the Appellate Division of the Supreme Court, and above everyone else is the New York Court of Appeals, which is the highest court in NY.. So there are at least two more levels of judicial review above the State Supreme Court. If the NYSC tosses it out, you can bet your bottom dollar that it WILL be taken to the next appellate level. The Cuomo-bots are not going to give in easily when they are so close to tyrannical success.

 

Far out. So "Supreme" is really a misnomer in NYS. Figures.

 

Any feel for the relative tone of the two higher courts? Like traditional or activist?

 

- OS

[tartanphantom]

Any feel for the relative tone of the two higher courts? Like traditional or activist?

 

- OS

 

OS-- I really don't mean to sound flippant, but it's a dyed-in-the-blue-wool state... even the "red counties" are purple when it comes to social issues.  What do you think? :shrug:

 

My bet is that it WILL end up in the SCOTUS eventually. Let's just pray for our NY brothers-in-arms that the SCOTUS hasn't had a complete facelift by then.

Edited March 9, 2013 by tartanphantom

[Oh Shoot]

OS-- I really don't mean to sound flippant, but it's a dyed-in-the-blue-wool state... even the "red counties" are purple when it comes to social issues.  What do you think? :shrug:

 

Well, no news to me on that account of course, but if that summarizes the courts too, aren't you surprised that the state Supreme Court has issued a stay/hearing in the first place?

 

They've even set an actual date of April 29 for an injunction to halt the law if the state's mouthpieces don't convince them. Maybe it's all just theater, dunno, but can't imagine Cuomo and his legislative minions being too happy about it. Wouldn't be surprised to find they're surprised.

 

- OS

Edited March 9, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Sam1]

Well, I'd say it's much ado about not much, and grasping at straws.

 

“Capable of accepting more than seven rounds" is not the same as "capable of being modified to accept more than seven rounds".

 

So most pump shotguns on the market, and in people's hands, will be legit. Very few folks have more than a 7+1 pump shotgun.

 

Whole law sucks, but I don't think this part makes it suck more or less to speak of.

 

- OS

 

Modified to accept more would be nothing more than an extension screwed on the end. Don't most shotguns allow for that?

[tartanphantom]

Well, no news to me on that account of course, but if that summarizes the courts too, aren't you surprised that the state Supreme Court has issued a stay/hearing in the first place?

 

They've even set an actual date of April 29 for an injunction to halt the law if the state's mouthpieces don't convince them. Maybe it's all just theater, dunno, but can't imagine Cuomo and his legislative minions being too happy about it. Wouldn't be surprised to find they're surprised.

 

- OS

 

Actually, it appears that a "show cause" order is pretty standard on just about any case coming before NYSC, so their issuance of a hearing requirement isn't out of the ordinary. I don't place too much faith in a state judicial system where elitist liberal cronyism is the standard political climate.

 

More information is here:

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/02/foghorn/ny-supreme-court-considers-safe-act-injunction/#more-205763

 

Some of the commentary is particularly revealing.

Edited March 9, 2013 by tartanphantom

[Oh Shoot]

Modified to accept more would be nothing more than an extension screwed on the end. Don't most shotguns allow for that?

 

Yeah. Depends on what they'll enforce as a "magazine" I guess.  Or if there's a definition in the code.  Though the technical nomenclature of a shotgun or rifle tube is "magazine" or "magazine tube" it's not what lawmakers think of as one, you know, like a "clip" :).

 

- OS

Edited March 9, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[vontar]

not going to split hairs here but

My rem 870 says to use 2 3/4 or 3 inch

 

It doesn't say I can use 1 3/4 shells.  So following the written documentation I cannot use 1 3/4 shells so I am a 7+1.  But it is kinda tight at 7, so normally I don't go beyond 6+1.

 

I can't image I would really want to use  1 3/4 shells anyways.

Edited March 14, 2013 by vontar