When Did TN Lose Long Gun Carry And Why?

[Guest 270win]

When did TN lose the right to carry long guns and why?  In surrounding states, there are little or no laws against carrying long guns.  For example, in Arkansas weapons law wise, long guns are not considered weapons and technically you can walk down the street with one loaded or have in your vehicle loaded.

 

 

Most towns in TN have a city ordinance based on the old state criminal code.

 

Old law:

 

It shall be unlawful for any person to carry in any manner whatever, with the intent to go armed, any razor, dirk knife, blackjack, brass knucks, pistol, revolver or any other dangerous weapon or instrument.

 

 

You will notice long guns are not mentioned.

 

 

Present Law

 

A person commits an offense who carries with the intent to go armed a firearm, a knife with a blade length exceeding four inches (4²), or a club.

[nightrunner]

Times change.

Also with a HCP you can have a loaded long gun in your vehicle just not chambered. Still illegal to carry one on your person.

[KaNuckles]

Times change.

Also with a HCP you can have a loaded long gun in your vehicle just not chambered. Still illegal to carry one on your person.

Doesn't this only apply to shotguns? I could be wrong. I'm just asking. 

[bronco302]

Rifle or Shotgun, 39-17-1307

(e)  (1) It is an exception to the application of subsection (a) that a person authorized to carry a handgun pursuant to § 39-17-1351 is transporting a rifle or shotgun in or on a privately-owned motor vehicle and the rifle or shotgun does not have ammunition in the chamber. However, the person does not violate this section by inserting ammunition into the chamber if the ammunition is inserted for purposes of justifiable self-defense pursuant to § 39-11-611 or § 39-11-612.

Joe W.

[QuietDan]

A lot of this is post Civil War, when the recently mustered-out United States Colored Troops (USCT) began returning to their states with .58 caliber rifle-muskets and the skill to use them. Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas outlines the process in detail in a well-footnoted, scholarly concurring statement in one of the high profile Supreme Court Second Amendment Cases. It is available online, and I might be able to dig it out later.

 

I think it's in:

 

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-1521.pdf

 

 

Edit:

 

Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas' Concurrence in McDonald v. Chicago is here starting on page 67 of the pdf):

 

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-1521.pdf

Edited March 20, 2013 by QuietDan

[f3joel]

If I am understanding it correctly.

I can carry a rifle/shotgun in a scabbard on my motorcycle, loaded but not a round chambered.

As long as the scabbard is attached to my bike and not my person.

[Blitzen]

Now thats a specific scenario. I'm curious now as to what the answer is. You mean sorta like the "Terminator in Terminator 2"? Cool!

[Guest 270win]

Right but it appears until possibly the 70's or even 80's that there were no restrictions in Tennessee on long guns, just handguns.  The long guns do not seem to have been covered under the 'intent to go armed' statute.  Was this something that Nafei pulled on everyone?

[Oh Shoot]

Right but it appears until possibly the 70's or even 80's that there were no restrictions in Tennessee on long guns, just handguns....

 

What do you base that on? I can't find an actual history of firearm possession laws in TN beyond the "army or navy revolver" thing which must have been a state law at one time, and is still embedded in many towns' code.

 

LexisNexis show history of 39-17-1307 as:

 

"HISTORY: Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1; 1990, ch. 1029, § 6; 2007, ch. 412, § 1; 2007, ch. 594, § 3; 2008, ch. 1166, § 1; 2008, ch. 1176, § 1; 2009, ch. 431, § 1; 2009, ch. 455, § 6; 2010, ch. 793, § 1; 2012, ch. 726, § 1."

 

But I've never understood exactly how to interpret those annotations for sure. Would suggest it was first enacted in 1989 but maybe not?

 

- OS

[JayC]

I think it would be legal on your back via a sling.  The law doesn't appear to prohibit the handling of the semi-loaded long gun :)

 

If I am understanding it correctly.

I can carry a rifle/shotgun in a scabbard on my motorcycle, loaded but not a round chambered.

As long as the scabbard is attached to my bike and not my person.

 

[wipfel]

Carrying my ar on my bike would be awesome! (disclaimer: Bike shown below not my bike) ;)

 

Somebody get to work on changing that law pronto.

 

Edited March 8, 2013 by wipfel

[Guest 270win]

 

 

 

"Public Acts 1879, Chapter 186, appears to have statutorily made the military revolver the “army or navy pistol.”  That Act amended the previous act that regulated the carrying of weapons in Tennessee, and provided that:

 

[I]t shall not be lawful for any person to carry, publically or privately any dirk, razor concealed about his person, sword cane, Spanish stiletto, belt or pocket pistol, revolver, or any kind of

pistol, except the army or navy pistol, usually used in warfare, which shall be carried openly in the hand, or loaded cane, sling-shot, brass knucks....

 

With slight modifications, that statute remained essentially the same until the criminal laws of the state were extensively amended and reorganized by Public Acts 1989, Chapter 591.  With respect to illegal weapons, that Act contains no reference to the Aarmy or navy pistol."

 

 

This was a word document that I found on Google written by an attorney for MTAS around 2010.  So it looks like you lost the right to carry a long gun without any sort of permit in public in 1989.

 

You might want to listen to this because this is when you got messed up in TN making basically all carry illegal.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD7S4tX4GPo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2013 by 270win

[Oh Shoot]

Carrying my ar on my bike would be awesome! (disclaimer: Bike shown below not my bike) ;)

 

Somebody get to work on changing that law pronto.

 

 

Why can't you carry it now, with a permit?

 

From 39-17-1307

 

"It is an exception to the application of subsection (a) that a person authorized to carry a handgun pursuant to § 39-17-1351 is transporting a rifle or shotgun in or on a privately-owned motor vehicle and the rifle or shotgun does not have ammunition in the chamber."

 

I can't think of a reason the "on" is in there, except to cover motorcycles?

 

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

 

 

 

"Public Acts 1879, Chapter 186, appears to have statutorily made the military revolver the “army or navy pistol.”  That Act amended the previous act that regulated the carrying of weapons in Tennessee, and provided that:

 

[I]t shall not be lawful for any person to carry, publically or privately any dirk, razor concealed about his person, sword cane, Spanish stiletto, belt or pocket pistol, revolver, or any kind of

pistol, except the army or navy pistol, usually used in warfare, which shall be carried openly in the hand, or loaded cane, sling-shot, brass knucks....

 

With slight modifications, that statute remained essentially the same until the criminal laws of the state were extensively amended and reorganized by Public Acts 1989, Chapter 591.  With respect to illegal weapons, that Act contains no reference to the Aarmy or navy pistol."

 

Yep, that's the statute I mentioned. As QuietDan mentioned, was basically a Jim Crow law to basically allow white men to carry pistols, as blacks couldn't afford the Army/Navy. TN certainly wasn't the only southern state to enact them.

 

Didn't realize it lasted in basic form till 1989, though. And as I mentioned, that old law is in many city ordinances around TN to this day, including Knoxville. It was the ordinance that Kwik carried under in Belle Meade when he made his stink there.

 

- OS

Edited March 9, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[wjh2657]

If everybody wants to play "Red Dawn" I have a safer way to get your jollies. Join the U.S. Military and get your young rears over to Afghanistan and be real soldiers.Visions of  groups of good old boys wandering around with loaded AR15s /AK47s in their hands is all the antis need to get rid of all of the guns. I'm a gun person and the thought of armed mobs of confused  citizens gives me the willies! Hunting season is something entirely different. I remember growing up in Ohio and  carrying my shotgun in the Pickup truck all day, including at school.  I can live with the Tennessee law as it is now. I would carry a shotgun in "Cruiser Mode" anyways.

[Guest zort]

lot of us did go over seas and still want our freedoms we fought for. whether u feel comfortable with it or not. getting really tired of people telling me what they feel comfortable with these days. i want to walk around with my guns and drink a liter of cola. if that offends anyone to bad

[Will H]

If everybody wants to play "Red Dawn" I have a safer way to get your jollies. Join the U.S. Military and get your young rears over to Afghanistan and be real soldiers.Visions of  groups of good old boys wandering around with loaded AR15s /AK47s in their hands is all the antis need to get rid of all of the guns. I'm a gun person and the thought of armed mobs of confused  citizens gives me the willies! Hunting season is something entirely different. I remember growing up in Ohio and  carrying my shotgun in the Pickup truck all day, including at school.  I can live with the Tennessee law as it is now. I would carry a shotgun in "Cruiser Mode" anyways.

 

Maybe you think we should all go buy double barrel shotguns?

 

Personally, I have served and fought for my freedoms.  I intend to keep and use them, and honestly I could not care less if you are comfortable with that.

Edited March 14, 2013 by Will H

[Worriedman]

Original loss of Rights was 1870, when the State Constitution was redone, to make sure freed slaves were kept unarmed, and the "intent to go armed" Jim Crow law was instituted.

 

1796 Constitution-Article 11 Section 26th That the free men of this State have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defence.

No question of how or what, just do.

 

1835 version:

 

Article 1 Section XXVI. That the free white men of this State have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defence.

 

1870 version:

 

Article 1 § 26. Weapons; right to bear arms

That the citizens of this State have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defense; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms with a view to prevent crime.

 

Legislature picked the bones of the beat down State, and inserts themselves into a position they never previously had, nor were intended to have to increase their power.  See how well that is working for us?

Edited March 14, 2013 by Worriedman

[Oh Shoot]

Original loss of Rights was 1870, when the State Constitution was redone, to make sure freed slaves were kept unarmed, and the "intent to go armed" Jim Crow law was instituted.

 

Hey, just for any of my possible future research purposes, how did you glean the evolution of the TN Constitution there?

 

- OS

[Worriedman]

1870 version: http://www.tncrimlaw.com/law/constit/index.html

 

1835 version: http://www.tngenweb.org/law/constitution1835.html

 

1796 version: http://www.tngenweb.org/law/constitution1796.html

[JAB]

If everybody wants to play "Red Dawn" I have a safer way to get your jollies. Join the U.S. Military and get your young rears over to Afghanistan and be real soldiers.Visions of  groups of good old boys wandering around with loaded AR15s /AK47s in their hands is all the antis need to get rid of all of the guns. I'm a gun person and the thought of armed mobs of confused  citizens gives me the willies! Hunting season is something entirely different. I remember growing up in Ohio and  carrying my shotgun in the Pickup truck all day, including at school.  I can live with the Tennessee law as it is now. I would carry a shotgun in "Cruiser Mode" anyways.

 

Young?  Man, I'm 41.  I kinda don't believe I should have to join the military and go to a foreign country in order to exercise my right to keep and bear arms.  I am also old enough to remember when pretty much every "good ol' boy" drove a pickup truck that had a gun rack in the rear window.  That rack generally held at least a shotgun and, often, a rifle.  Those long guns were present year 'round, not just during hunting season and, no, hunting season isn't different because the Second Amendment is not about hunting.  It was not a big deal and no one freaked out nor were they portrayed as 'armed mobs' by most folks because, back then, people weren't drinking the pussification Kool-Aid.  Some of us might like to still be able to do that without being harassed and without anyone freaking out.  It isn't our fault that the general populace has their heads up their collective asses.  I also don't think that most of us are talking about walking down the sidewalk, either alone or in groups, while carrying an AR, etc.

Edited March 14, 2013 by JAB

[Guest 270win]

Even though there is no law against long gun carry in Arkansas, you don't have people walking up and down the sidewalk with one.  Same thing in Texas or Louisiana or pretty much all the states surrounding Tennessee.  No one in those states need any sort of permission to have a loaded or half loaded(like in TN) long gun.

 

It is just one less thing that the wrong police officer can hassle someone over, especially having loaded long guns in vehicles.

 

I used to cruise sometimes with a loaded little single shot shotgun behind the seat of my jeep when i lived in Arkansas.  Perfectly safe because the shotgun has an exposed rebounding hammer that you do not pull until you are ready to fire.

 

Even when I was a kid I lived in a somewhat rural area and would just walk down the road with loaded long guns to get to the woods in Arkansas.  I didn't need any sort of reason because again that was something that a LEO could not hassle me over since long guns there are not covered under the weapons carry laws.

[JRWnTN]

In 1989, the Tennessee criminal code was substatntially revised.  The 1989 version of the code was horrible.  You had to disassemble a firearm to transport it.  That only lasted a year or so before it changed to something like the present version.

[polecat]

I from Arizona where you can carry around whatever the hell you want. I never went hiking alone in the high country without a rifle. I didn't know about this until now. So as I understand it I can only openly carry a long gun with my hunting license in hand during hunting season? But I can carry a long gun in the vehicle as long as a round is not chambered?

[Oh Shoot]

I from Arizona where you can carry around whatever the hell you want. I never went hiking alone in the high country without a rifle. I didn't know about this until now. So as I understand it I can only openly carry a long gun with my hunting license in hand during hunting season? But I can carry a long gun in the vehicle as long as a round is not chambered?

 

That's correct as far as it goes.

 

The additional gray area, in that part of defenses to going armed is:

 

 "Incident to lawful hunting, trapping, fishing, camping, sport shooting or other lawful activity".

 

Like, does "hiking" count, or must you be hiking in order to fish, or hunt, or trap, or camp? What other "lawful activity" might be included?

 

Some have opined that the fishing and camping parts specifically are there in relation only for +4" knives, but have never seen a real basis for that based on case law. Would seem to me to have to include all the weapons mentioned in the unlawful carry statute: firearms, +4" knives, and clubs.

 

Etc. TN weapons law is very gray in many parts.

 

- OS

Edited March 22, 2013 by Oh Shoot