"The Great Ammunition Myth: The government is not planning a violent putdown of civil unrest"

[TMF]

A lot of things have happened since 2000. You couldn't look at our military spending in 1999 and compare that to 2009... that would be silly. Same thing for the DHS, which didn't even exist then. There has been a great focus since 9/11 on homeland security, which means more gun toters and bullets for them to fire. It is literally simple math.

[bigwakes]

I understand there are new agencies and some people might even find a good reason for new agencies. My questions is do we have previous years where the government ( and all agencies that make up the government) have ordered ammo at these rates. Maybe they ordered more, maybe less. Just wondering if the information is available to compare to today.

[TMF]

I understand there are new agencies and some people might even find a good reason for new agencies. My questions is do we have previous years where the government ( and all agencies that make up the government) have ordered ammo at these rates. Maybe they ordered more, maybe less. Just wondering if the information is available to compare to today.

 

I'm just going to go ahead and make the educated assumption that, per capita, there is more ammo alotted per gun toting federali, just like there is more ammo alotted per Soldier since 9/11.  Before 9/11 many of us in the military would get less than 60 rds in a YEAR to shoot.  Just enough ammo to confirm zero and qualify.  After 9/11 that changed, along with a lot of other stuff.  I would reason to be that in the post 9/11 militarization of government agencies under DHS as well as the push to achieve a higher level of firearms proficiency due to the new mission of these organizations on top of the regular amount used annually, there was probably a significant spike.  Now, as to the increase in hiring, militarization and whiz-bang training folks are getting that they didn't before 9/11... that can all be debated as to whether that was all necessarry, but knowing that this condition exists would easily and rationally explain a significant spike in ammo per capita. 

[bigwakes]

I would love to see the numbers. Without seeing them I can make a guess that the Obama government has been procuring more ammo the the Bush government. If its a big enough difference would that raise some concerns?

[TMF]

I would love to see the numbers. Without seeing them I can make a guess that the Obama government has been procuring more ammo the the Bush government. If its a big enough difference would that raise some concerns?

 

Well that would be hard to say.  There are unconfirmed sources within the DHS who claim that they are getting ahead of the budget cuts.  Makes sense to me.  When you know the hammer is about to fall it would make sense to stock pile; isn't that what folks here do?  Isn't that part of the reason we're experiencing the great ammo pain right now? 

 

Besides, I'm not certain exactly what Obama can do with a bunch of airport security guards and a border patrol that isn't even large enough to seal the border.  According to all the revolutionaries out there, if Obama farts in the direction of the 2nd Amendment everyone is going to take up arms, in which case the DHS would be outnumbered something to the tune of 100/1.  But if I'm just all wrong about this and Obama declares war on us citizens, I'll invite you all to my house for training on how to defeat 1/2 million dollar non-tracked armored vehicles with $2 of supplies.  (Hint: it involves gas and matches)

[East_TN_Patriot]

I understand there are new agencies and some people might even find a good reason for new agencies. My questions is do we have previous years where the government ( and all agencies that make up the government) have ordered ammo at these rates. Maybe they ordered more, maybe less. Just wondering if the information is available to compare to today.

 

I did a little bit of searching to see if I could dig up that info, but didn't have any luck.  I did read that these contracts, like the ones being the subject of the current hoopla, are authorizations to purchase ammunition and other items that can cover several years.  If that is the case, it may be a little more challenging to find these random requisitions out there.  I know through friends who work for the federal government that they go through massive amounts of ammo for training.  I've never had a need to ask how many they fired so I don't know for sure, but my sense was that thousands of rounds in a year was not uncommon.  One of my friends is a retired firearms instructor and he always talked like they had basically unlimited ammo at their disposal and they made full use of it.  He now teaches the classes for the federal flight deck officer program and talks as if they go through cases of ammo each class and they teach it every couple of months.  His training site is just one of many across the United States.  Like the original article I posted says, it's a matter of scale.  Knoxville Police Department may go through a few thousand rounds per year, but when you compare that to all of the federal agencies and multiply that by five years, it makes much more sense why they are going through so much ammo.  Seriously, we all expect the men and women who we task with protecting us and our interests to be able to shoot and have access to ammo right?

 

In full disclosure, I also was a little concerned when I first read about these ammo purchases, but I am not a Kool Aid drinker and immediately began to do some research and thinking on the issue instead of simply taking someone else's word for it.  As soon as I saw Alex Jones jump into the mix, I knew it definitely deserved even more diligence and research because that guy is a conspiracy merchant.  He plays off of people's concerns and makes good money doing it even though none of his doomsday predictions ever seem to come true.

Edited March 17, 2013 by East_TN_Patriot

[Randall53]

The fact is there are plans in place for the DHS and NG etc.....to hit the streets armed to the teeth if there is civil unrest, no matter what the cause.  We also know that the 2nd amendment is under attack from all sides making this very high on the list of possible causes of Civil Unrest in the very near future.  Are the Government agencies preparing for a "violent put down of civil unrest"? No.  They already are prepared. They have been for years. I remember the scenes on my black and white tv back in the 60's during the civil rights movements.  Anyone remember Kent State? That was National Guard against unarmed students.

Edited March 17, 2013 by Randall53

[TMF]

The fact is there are plans in place for the DHS and NG etc.....to hit the streets armed to the teeth if there is civil unrest, no matter what the cause. 

 

Well I think that is true no matter the times we live in.  When I was in the Nasty Guard we trained for riots and such.  As I recall much of it was geard toward LA style type riots, not peaceful demostrations.  No matter, it is diligent for them to train for such things since that is a potential mission they are deployed for.  If I was a commander of a NG infantry battalion, that is one of the main things I would focus training on, in addition to war time roles and disaster relief.  If I didn't I would be derelict. 

[mikegideon]

This ammo paranoia just doesn't make sense. It reminds me of the Libtard paranoia when they found that the Aurora shooter had thousands of rounds of .223 stockpiled. Our retarded friends didn't bother to ask themseves how many rounds he actually discharged, or how many more he could have discharged before the cops turned him into a human rattle. All he needed was one trip to Walmart.

 

I'm certainly not worried about them loading up on pistol ammo. If I was going to do an all out attack on civilians, it would be with full auto rifles.

Edited March 17, 2013 by mikegideon

[Randall53]

I agree...That's what I was trying to say in the last part of my post.  Sure they are prepared for Civil Unrest. They have been for 45 years since the Civil Rights movement and the protests against the Vietnam war.

 

 

 

Are the Government agencies preparing for a "violent put down of civil unrest"? No.  They already are prepared. They have been for years. I remember the scenes on my black and white tv back in the 60's during the civil rights movements.  Anyone remember Kent State? That was National Guard against unarmed students.

[TrickyNicky]

I think that the very very idea that Gov agency's would plan an all out assault on the heaviest armed civilian population in history using hollow point pistols caliber ammunition is absurd.

People need to start paying attention to the real threats to their freedoms and stop jumping at their own shadows.

[TMF]

I think that the very very idea that Gov agency's would plan an all out assault on the heaviest armed civilian population in history using hollow point pistols caliber ammunition is absurd.

 

 

But hollowpoints explode on impact causing mass casualties and fist sized exit wounds.  I can't think of a scarier weapon used against us.

[Guest FTNWO]

Anyone who doubts this IS the Endgame and the advancement of UN Agenda 21, just doesn't realize how deep this rabbit hole goes. 

[East_TN_Patriot]

But hollowpoints explode on impact causing mass casualties and fist sized exit wounds.  I can't think of a scarier weapon used against us.

No, no... hollowpoints IMPLODE.  That's why Feinstein wants to ban them.  They are like a little ballistic supernova that creates a mini black hole that sucks the victim into themselves turning them inside out.

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

If you haven't aready seen this from breitbart: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/02/17/Feds-Buy-2-Billion-Rounds-Of-Ammunition

by William Bigelow  18 Feb 2013

Something strange is going on. Federal non-military agencies have bought two billion rounds of ammunition in the last 10 months. The Obama Administration says that federal law enforcement agents need the ammunition for “mandatory quarterly firearms qualifications and other training sessions.”

Radio show host Mark Levin is suspicious. He commented:

To provide some perspective, experts estimate that at the peak of the Iraq war American troops were firing around 5.5 million rounds per month. At that rate, the [Department of Homeland Security] is armed now for a 24-year Iraq war. A 24-year Iraq war! I’m going to tell you what I think is going on. I don’t think domestic insurrection. Law enforcement and national security agencies, they play out multiple scenarios. … I’ll tell you what I think they’re simulating: the collapse of our financial system, the collapse of our society and the potential for widespread violence, looting, killing in the streets, because that’s what happens when an economy collapses. I suspect that just in case our fiscal situation, our monetary situation, collapses, and following it the civil society collapses, that is the rule of law, they want to be prepared. I know why the government’s arming up: It’s not because there’s going to be an insurrection; it’s because our society is unraveling.

Even though the National Rifle Association says that the amount of ammunition bought isn’t excessive, considering the number of federal agents and the fact that the ammunition is used over a five-year period, there are others who question why the need for so many federal agents. Among them is Jeff Knox, director of The Firearms Coalition, who said:

It’s not the number of bullets we need to worry about but the number of feds with guns it takes to use those bullets. There are currently more than 70 different federal law enforcement agencies employing over 120,000 officers with arrest and firearms authority . . . That’s an increase of nearly 30 percent between 2004 and 2008. If the trends have continued upward at a relatively steady rate, that would put the total number of federal law enforcement officers at somewhere between 135,000 and 145,000. That’s a pretty staggering number, especially when you consider that there are only an estimated 765,000 state and local law enforcement officers. That means that about one in seven law enforcement officers in the country works directly for the federal government, not a local jurisdiction.

[Links2k]

Anyone who doubts this IS the Endgame and the advancement of UN Agenda 21, just doesn't realize how deep this rabbit hole goes.

Must be a double naught spy secret. Pleeze splain it to uz. Edited March 18, 2013 by LINKS2K

[mikegideon]

Must be a double knot spy secret. Pleeze splain it to uz.

 

No time to explain. RUN Dammit! :panic:

[Mister L]

How the DHS Plans to Deal With the Patriot Movement
http://occupycorporatism.com/how-the-dhs-plans-to-deal-with-the-patriot-movement/

[bigwakes]

The fact is there are plans in place for the DHS and NG etc.....to hit the streets armed to the teeth if there is civil unrest, no matter what the cause.  We also know that the 2nd amendment is under attack from all sides making this very high on the list of possible causes of Civil Unrest in the very near future.  Are the Government agencies preparing for a "violent put down of civil unrest"? No.  They already are prepared. They have been for years. I remember the scenes on my black and white tv back in the 60's during the civil rights movements.  Anyone remember Kent State? That was National Guard against unarmed students.

I was in LA during the riots and the government was not ready for any part of that civil unrest. More recently Katrina was a mad house with no government intervention against criminals, just the law abiding citizens protecting their homes. I don't see that the government has been ready for civil unrest in the past. Maybe they are changing their strategy.....

[Paladin132]

No, no... hollowpoints IMPLODE.  That's why Feinstein wants to ban them.  They are like a little ballistic supernova that creates a mini black hole that sucks the victim into themselves turning them inside out.

Which is halarious since she got into Senator Cruize (Spelling may be wrong) about him lecturing her. She said she has been at this for 30 some years and knows the terminology quite well.

 

Just another indicator of how bad the anti gun group is.

[East_TN_Patriot]

No time to explain. RUN Dammit! :panic:

:bowrofl:

[East_TN_Patriot]

Must be a double knot spy secret. Pleeze splain it to uz.

This is all you need to know:



http://www.glennbeck.com/agenda21/

:panic:

I can't believe I used to like that guy... :doh:

[TMF]

I hate being sheep. The food sucks and I hate shaving.

[Guest Cami]

Which is halarious since she got into Senator Cruize (Spelling may be wrong) about him lecturing her. She said she has been at this for 30 some years and knows the terminology quite well.

 

Just another indicator of how bad the anti gun group is.

 

She is a blooming lib-tard who has no clue.  Unfortunantly, people keep listening to her and voting for her. 

[Worriedman]

Must be a double knot naught spy secret. Pleeze splain it to uz.

FTFY  From Jethro Bodine's Naught-Naught Spy stuff, the funniest of which was the Jethro Bodine Ejector Seat...from Double Naught Jethro (March 3, 1965)