"The Great Ammunition Myth: The government is not planning a violent putdown of civil unrest"

[East_TN_Patriot]

The appeal of this story is obvious, and that some citizens keep track of such things shows an admirable vigilance. But while a healthy suspicion of government serves these United States better than critics presume, facts remain the stubborn things that they always have been, and skepticism is no virtue at all when it proves impervious to reason.

And the point I've been trying to make over and over again regarding these panic-based theories:
 

As the NRA has noted, “more than a few NRA members would use that much ammunition in a weekend shooting class or plinking session.” There are enough risks to the right to bear arms and to American liberty in general, the NRA continued, without “inventing threats.”

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/342161/great-ammunition-myth-charles-c-w-cooke

Edited March 6, 2013 by East_TN_Patriot

[Guest RevScottie]

Please refrain from posting factual information like this. It tends to interfere with my Tin Foil Hat's reception :)

[Jonnin]

its all in how you word it, though. 

 

If the national guard,  DHS and so on are doing their jobs at all, they *have* "planned" (as in, considered scenarios) for widespread rioting and domestic issues.  They *have* to do this, it is part of the job, same as running scenarios to handle domestic terrorists in an urban environment. 

 

Change the word planned to mean "in the process of executing in the near future" and no, I do not believe that.   The day may come, but its not here.

[mikegideon]

Good piece.

[zapfbroad]

numbers schnumbers, facts redacts....

Charles C. W. Cooke is a writer at National Review and a graduate of the University of Oxford, at which he studied Modern History and Politics. Charles emigrated to the United States from England in 2011. "

 

how convenient...

he's Obviously a UN/CIA disinformation specialist plant just lookin to collect some back taxes for ol queen mum. probably told to say all that in his haarp mind control processing

 

:popcorn:  :tinfoil:  :panic:  :hiding:  :stir:

[peejman]

its all in how you word it, though. 

 

If the national guard,  DHS and so on are doing their jobs at all, they *have* "planned" (as in, considered scenarios) for widespread rioting and domestic issues.  They *have* to do this, it is part of the job, same as running scenarios to handle domestic terrorists in an urban environment. 

 

Change the word planned to mean "in the process of executing in the near future" and no, I do not believe that.   The day may come, but its not here.

 

 

I work with lots of current and former military and National Guard folks.  Beyond the usual riot and natural disaster training, there's nothing specifically directed toward civil unrest.  I'm sure there are documents in locked file cabinets that address such things, but actual implementation is nil. 

[TMF]

I'd say that riot training is standard for every national guard unit after the LA riots. We were doing some sort of riot control training at least twice yearly in the late 90s along with check point operations for natural disasters. I assume that has always been common place. I guess it would make sense to train on the things you're routinely deployed to do, but when I wear my tin foil hat and listen to Alex Jones these mundane things scare me.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

And your point is? I thought we settled this in another thread. :D

[BigK]

I've seen the gov't spy helicopters overhead recently, chronicling our every move. To the casual observer, they look like run of the mill traffic/news choppers.

 

...but that's what they WANT us to think.

Edited March 6, 2013 by BigK

[No_0ne]

Math is a liberal conspiracy...

[N2thebox]

three things to consider if you think the Federal Government is not preparing for civil unrest

 

1) enough ammo bought by the feds to supply the Iraq war for 24 years FACT

2) approx 3000 armored vehicles purchased for domestic use NOT abroad FACT

3) "no hesitation targets" 2.5 million dollar contract filled for the feds for targets like pregnant women, old men and children holding guns FACT

4) the "coffins" sightings 

 

Agreed these were likely already part of "civil unrest" scenarios practiced by the government, however it just seems like a large number and a lot of activity as of recent. 

 

ALSO the publicity in recent months of Civil Unrest in Lybia, Seria and Egypt has gotten their attention. The feds realize those scenarios are in countries that are for the most part unarmed.

[npgunner]

I've seen the gov't spy helicopters overhead recently, chronicling our every move. To the casual observer, they look like run of the mill traffic/news choppers.

...but that's what they WANT us to think.

Haven't you heard? Helicopters are so 2000. They've moved on to drones now!

[TMF]

three things to consider if you think the Federal Government is not preparing for civil unrest

1) enough ammo bought by the feds to supply the Iraq war for 24 years FACT
2) approx 3000 armored vehicles purchased for domestic use NOT abroad FACT
3) "no hesitation targets" 2.5 million dollar contract filled for the feds for targets like pregnant women, old men and children holding guns FACT
4) the "coffins" sightings

There are absolutely no facts there.

[Randall53]

Our government denounces other countries for attacking and or killing their citizens even during these recent uprisings, yet it does appear our government is arming up to the teeth....also, the recent filibuster by rand Paul clearly stated concern about using armed drones against UNARMED citizens, but didn't mention armed citizens, leaving armed citizens open for attack maybe? I guess its easier for them to judge other countries actions rather than their own.

[Randall53]

Oops....double post. Edited March 13, 2013 by Randall53

[Mister L]

Something is going on with our leaders in Washington. Here's a compilation of news clips that will get you thinkin, start at 0.50 to skip the bad intro. kind of long, but good.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsVOzOea6og 

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Ah, but it has Alex Jones in it. It must be bad. :D

 

 

The ammunition problem may be based on fear buying, probably is, but when your government already has

the right to do so many things without a warrant, according to the Patriot Act, and has laws that allow property

to be seized and never returned without great cost to you, that was originally intended for the mafia, and later

for the drug war, that is used for more and more things not originally intended, it would make one wonder about

a lot of things. Fear is sometimes useful when it is justified, to keep us from allowing the overreach of a tyrannical

government.

 

You can discount the arms issue all you want with several publications to your liking, and I will say the National

Review is sometimes right and sometimes wrong. It's editor is not the most conservative person around and is

usually one on the side of big government, so I don't necessarily discount the article, but I always approach the

subject from any source as suspect.

 

Whatever the number the government buys of ammunition and type isn't what concerns me, anyway. What does

bother me is the incremental intrusion of the government into my daily life, and it should you, also. That's where

the fear and concern comes from. And for the Mark Levin quote, which I agree with, I don't think I will rely on any

governmental help due to the breakdown of society because I believe it was a huge part of the problem and, since

it is complicit to the problem, it is not a friend of mine. Too many problems. We are a broken society.

 

All I will say about the video above, is that I will side on Judge Napolitano's opinion and not the National Review,

any day of the week.

[strickj]

There are absolutely no facts there.

You are wrong, TMF. Alex Jones confirmed it with an unidentified source.

I, for one, am taking this to heart so I"m going to start buying as much gold and silver as possible.

 

:lol:

Edited March 13, 2013 by strickj

[mikegideon]

You are wrong, TMF. Alex Jones confirmed it with an unidentified source.

I, for one, am taking this to heart so I"m going to start buying as much gold and silver as possible.

 

:lol:

 

You better be buying some ammo. They have a buttload of it for sale on Armslist :)

[strickj]

You better be buying some ammo. They have a buttload of it for sale on Armslist :)

The government is selling it? Why hasn't Jones picked up on this yet? :tinfoil:

[N2thebox]

There are absolutely no facts there.

All you have to do is google these 4 topics and see the facts for yourself, each topic has at least 3 or 4 pages worth of reporting on each issue.

[TMF]

There are absolutely no facts there.


All you have to do is google these 4 topics and see the facts for yourself, each topic has at least 3 or 4 pages worth of reporting on each issue.

I'm aware of the supposed facts that are out there. They have all been debunked. I could debunk all those points once again, but I don't suppose it would do any good since folks are going to believe what they want to believe. I do find it humorous when folks talk about others drinking the Kool Aid when all they're doing is exchanging fruit punch flavor for kiwi-strawberry.

[peejman]

I'm aware of the supposed facts that are out there. They have all been debunked. I could debunk all those points once again, but I don't suppose it would do any good since folks are going to believe what they want to believe. I do find it humorous when folks talk about others drinking the Kool Aid when all they're doing is exchanging fruit punch flavor for kiwi-strawberry.

 

 

Kiwi-strawberry is for sissies.  Real men drink grape!  ;)

[East_TN_Patriot]

I'm aware of the supposed facts that are out there. They have all been debunked. I could debunk all those points once again, but I don't suppose it would do any good since folks are going to believe what they want to believe. I do find it humorous when folks talk about others drinking the Kool Aid when all they're doing is exchanging fruit punch flavor for kiwi-strawberry.

EXACTLY!  Kool Aid consumption is not solely a left-wing activity.  When people are only looking for one explanation, they are going to exercise selective observation and are sure to find exactly what they are looking for even if it's totally absurd or if their few cherry picked "facts" are contradicted by piles of evidence.  If people want to know who is responsible for this ammunition shortage, many can take a look in the mirror and think about their panicked stockpile of ammo piled up in the garage or listed on GunBroker for 3-4 times the retail cost.  

This particular topic is interesting to me.  On one hand, gun owners talk about the vital importance of practicing with their firearms, but when the federal law enforcement agencies purchase ammunition to practice with, people flip out and believe a takeover is in the works.  Or let's assume they are preparing for civil unrest and civil unrest did happen.  My strong suspicion is that many people actually have very selective concerns based on who would be carrying out the unrest.  Think for a second and be honest with yourself.  If the Occupy protests had turned into civil unrest or if the LA riots happened again, would you: 1) expect the government to do nothing to stop it, and/or 2) be upset if the government used violence to put down the unrest?  My point here is that I am very skeptical that the Alex Jones crowd is really all that concerned about civil liberties, but is really only concerned about civil liberties for specific groups that fit their own definition of who *should* be protected by the Constitution.

 

Also, on this "no hesitation" target issue, unless something has changed there is no evidence that the government purchased targets with pregnant women on them.  Based on my reading of the Alex Jones story, the government purchased targets from a company that also happens to sell the "no hesitation" targets people are wringing their hands over.  At no point has anyone been able to confirm whether the government has purchased any of those targets.  This is the kind of "journalism" Alex Jones practices.  He takes one piece of information, finds some other random possibly related piece of information, and makes a huge leap in logic that is ALWAYS grounded in his conspiratorial mindset.  For him, everything is a conspiracy because there simply is no other option in his mind.  

Edited March 15, 2013 by East_TN_Patriot

[bigwakes]

I would like to know at what rate these agencies purchased ammo in 2000 to the present. Has there been a serious uptick in the government hoarding ammo or is this the norm and we are just hyper sensitive given the current administration.

And don't forget "just because your paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you."