AK-47 Pistol / Experience

[quesogrande]

I would like to know your experience with these - best ones- better ones - diffrent types - just trying to get some info here- i have been checking them out.  It seem that people use all the variences in the title making it difficult to tell whats what.

[Fourtyfive]

What do you want to do with it ?

I have one , fun to shoot , but will not put food on the table.

http://www.slickguns.com/product/m92pv-zastava-pap-pistol-762x39-two-magazines-689

There is one for sale on this forum if you want to become a benefactor.

[Garufa]

You can get something far more practical for your money.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Garufa

[quesogrande]

You can get something far more practical for your money.

I am not looking for practical really- just shoot and maybe SBR later- 

 

I want to know about the various kinds-

[quesogrande]

Oh i see that now- i didnt see that before I posted-   

 

 

What do you want to do with it ?

I have one , fun to shoot , but will not put food on the table.

http://www.slickguns.com/product/m92pv-zastava-pap-pistol-762x39-two-magazines-689

There is one for sale on this forum if you want to become a benefactor.

[Murgatroy]

You have to be a Benefactor to post in the for sale forum, not to PM the seller to buy it.

[quesogrande]

I dont think thats is in question here- this is an informational, I want to know about the various kinds-

 

 

 

 

You have to be a Benefactor to post in the for sale forum, not to PM the seller to buy it.

[seez52]

I was gonna build one, but then couldn't figure out what id do with it except make lots of noise. The super short ones are pretty neat, but again couldn't come up with a need.

[Smith]

You can get something far more practical for your money.

It doesn't get much more practical than a Draco or M92. You don't loose any thing balistically, you gain a bit of accuracy, and you gain a lot on portability. Basically it's a 30-30 or a better version of the 300 blackout. ;-)
Essentially there is one pistol on the market the M92. They other one is the Draco but they dried up and are harder to find these days. You can get one of the Arsenals but you pay for the pretty.
Put a stock on it and its about as good as it gets in the AK world. I've had a bunch of AK's and the SBR'd pistols are by far my favorites.
Edited March 6, 2013 by Smith

[TMF]

It doesn't get much more practical than a Draco or M92. You don't lose any thing ballistically,

How is it possible for the muzzle velocity on a 10 inch AK to be as much as one with a 16 inch barrel?

[espacef1fan]

I understand the paperwork. How bad is the work to put a buttstock on a AK pistol?

[Murgatroy]

I understand the paperwork. How bad is the work to put a buttstock on a AK pistol?

Same as cutting the barrel.

[quesogrande]

I idea is not to alter the barrel- just ad a stock after, stamp

[Smith]

How is it possible for the muzzle velocity on a 10 inch AK to be as much as one with a 16 inch barrel?

Because the 7.62x39 is a fast burning round. It basically maxes out at 16" anyway. IIRC the drop off is only a few hundred FPS from 16" to 12.5/10.25".  Being that it is a 300 yrd round to begin with the velocity drop combined with the .30 cal bullet within the same range means the performance difference is negligible. In the SBR form, it essentially takes it to .300 Blackout range. I'm sure someone will come along and state the stats, but that is the basic rundown.

[Smith]

I understand the paperwork. How bad is the work to put a buttstock on a AK pistol?

Pretty easy on an M92 or Draco. Drill and tap two holes and you can put any of the ACE style stocks directly on it. It's what I did.

[TMF]

Because the 7.62x39 is a fast burning round. It basically maxes out at 16" anyway. IIRC the drop off is only a few hundred FPS from 16" to 12.5/10.25".  Being that it is a 300 yrd round to begin with the velocity drop combined with the .30 cal bullet within the same range means the performance difference is negligible. In the SBR form, it essentially takes it to .300 Blackout range. I'm sure someone will come along and state the stats, but that is the basic rundown.

Well I didn't know that. I guess I'll have to pick up one of those CAI shorties then and SBR it. I was looking into SBRing one of those Arsenal Krinks in 5.56, but this sounds way better.

[Smith]

Well I didn't know that. I guess I'll have to pick up one of those CAI shorties then and SBR it. I was looking into SBRing one of those Arsenal Krinks in 5.56, but this sounds way better.

IMO, a SBR 5.56 is odd. You drop so much velocity when you get under 16" that you might as well have a high velocity .22 mag. No offense to those that like them. The x39 in a SBR makes so much sense they devoloped the .300 blackout for AR's :)

Here's a pretty good comparison of the lengths:

16" - 2309 FPS

12.5" - 2075 FPS (Draco)

10.25" - 1940 FPS. (M92)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbgAh9-sCDQ&feature=player_embedded#!

Edited March 6, 2013 by Smith

[TMF]

IMO, a SBR 5.56 is odd. You drop so much velocity when you get under 16" that you might as well have a high velocity .22 mag. No offense to those that like them. The x39 in a SBR makes so much sense they devoloped the .300 blackout for AR's :)
Here's a pretty good comparison of the lengths:
16" - 2309 FPS
12.5" - 2075 FPS (Draco)
10.25" - 1940 FPS. (M92)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbgAh9-sCDQ&feature=player_embedded#!

Well this was what was keeping me hemming and hawing about the Arsenal... seemed like a lot of work for a gun without punch. I just assumed the same principle applied to short AKs. Looks like I'm going to be parting with some gear and ammo to fund an M92. CAI has a bad rep, but I fired a buddy's M92 a few months back and it was solid; much nicer than my CAI 74.

[Jonnin]

IMO, a SBR 5.56 is odd. You drop so much velocity when you get under 16" that you might as well have a high velocity .22 mag. No offense to those that like them. The x39 in a SBR makes so much sense they devoloped the .300 blackout for AR's :)

Here's a pretty good comparison of the lengths:

16" - 2309 FPS

12.5" - 2075 FPS (Draco)

10.25" - 1940 FPS. (M92)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbgAh9-sCDQ&feature=player_embedded#!

 

Supposedly I get ~2500 FPS from my 223 pistol (plr-16) with a 55 grain.  I do not have a chrono so that is just what others claim, but in the neighborhood. 

A 22 mag out of a rifle  is right at 2k fps or less for a lighter bullet load (10+ grains lighter, 30 and 40 grain loads).   Even if you grain of salt the 2500 and call it 2250, you have a 15 grain weight advantage and 250 fps advantage over magnums in a rifle --- and you have that in a smaller gun than the 22 mag rifle, and one that holds more rounds, etc. 

 

The AK pistol is far superior as a weapons platform.  I got the 223 as a toy, really. 

[viscero]

I own a Draco and an M92 and between the two the M92 has a far superior build quality but doesn't have as many options in the SBR category as the Draco does.

 

Draco Cons:

Harder to find so price is higher

FInish is very rough

May require a trip to a good smith to remedy some of the factory quality issues. (Had to have my RSB rolled on mine)

 

Draco Pros:

14x1 threads and factory detent w/ spring - wide variety of muzzle device options.

Rear trunnion is pretty much 90 degrees so mounting any ace style stock is a breeze

Standard Romanian style receiver so changing out the rear end to your liking is easy enough to do.

 

M92 Cons:

24mm threads and no factory detent pin/spring.  Out of the box you gotta spend some coin on parts to get a muzzle device on there.  Not as many options once you do either.

Rear trunion is angled slightly which can be a bit of a problem when aligning ace style stocks correctly

Serial number location prevents extensive mods from being legal w/o swapping out the receiver entirely

 

M92 Pros:

Build quality and finish is superb.

Widely available

 

To me it comes down to this.  If you just want a toy then get whichever one you like.  If you want to SBR then it depends on if you want a ton of options OR a (nearly) factory built Krinkov clone.  If you want a Krinkov clone then go with the M92.  If you want a bunch of hassle free options on your SBR build then go find a Draco.  

 

At least that's been my experience...

Edited March 6, 2013 by viscero

[TMF]

Well I think I'm getting an M92 then.

[quesogrande]

Viscero - thank you for you responce- whats your perception on the current mkt on these?  I have just started looking and am not in a hurry, i dont want to buy into the hype of AK AR bang and over pay. 

[hipower]

I own a Draco and an M92 and between the two the M92 has a far superior build quality but doesn't have as many options in the SBR category as the Draco does.

 

Draco Cons:

Harder to find so price is higher

FInish is very rough

May require a trip to a good smith to remedy some of the factory quality issues. (Had to have my RSB rolled on mine)

 

Draco Pros:

14x1 threads and factory detent w/ spring - wide variety of muzzle device options.

Rear trunnion is pretty much 90 degrees so mounting any ace style stock is a breeze

Standard Romanian style receiver so changing out the rear end to your liking is easy enough to do.

 

M92 Cons:

24mm threads and no factory detent pin/spring.  Out of the box you gotta spend some coin on parts to get a muzzle device on there.  Not as many options once you do either.

Rear trunion is angled slightly which can be a bit of a problem when aligning ace style stocks correctly

Serial number location prevents extensive mods from being legal w/o swapping out the receiver entirely

 

M92 Pros:

Build quality and finish is superb.

Widely available

 

To me it comes down to this.  If you just want a toy then get whichever one you like.  If you want to SBR then it depends on if you want a ton of options OR a (nearly) factory built Krinkov clone.  If you want a Krinkov clone then go with the M92.  If you want a bunch of hassle free options on your SBR build then go find a Draco.  

 

At least that's been my experience...

 

Ok. That settles it. Between your comments and our resident AK guru..Smith. I'm looking for an M92.

Edited March 6, 2013 by hipower

[R1100R]

I've been looking for a M92 after talking to Smith. The  prices are coming down. I just got a dealer flyer for the M85 PV which is the .223 version for $639.00. I'm wanting a 7.62 version. Before the madness these were around $500.00.

[dcloudy777]

I didn't even shoot my Draco until I SBR'd it.  Like Smith said earlier, adding the stock is super easy, and I know at least my gun had a big, beefy plate welded in the back that makes for a very solid attachment point for the stock.  I really like the gun, I just got a new chrono so I'm eager to check some velocities, especially with the 154gr Wolf.