SB1241/HB1150 - Student Religious Liberty - Vanderbilt Police Force

[cybernorris]

Vanderbilt University in the past couple of years has been a leader among colleges and universities in a fight to remove Christian student organizations from their campuses by requiring that they open their leadership to individuals who don't share the group's faith. In other words, according to Vanderbilt, a Catholic group must be open to Muslim leaders, a Baptist group to atheists, and Jewish groups to Hindus. More than a dozen Christian groups have now been forced off campus. FYI, the US Supreme Court ruled in 2010 that a public college could not have this type of policy.

 

Last year the Tennessee Legislature passed a bill that would require private collages, including Vanderbilt, to protect its' students most basic religious liberties. However the Governor vetoed the bill... claiming that a private university should be able to set its own policies.

 

This year the Legislature will consider SB1241/HB1150, a bill "relative to religious liberty involving student organizations at postsecondary educational institutions." 

 

The point of this bill is simple... respect students' religious liberties or lose the authority to operate a police force.

 

Vanderbilt's police force is authorized by State law. In this way, the University is an extension of the State of Tennessee. So if this bill passes and is signed by the Governor, Vandy will have the choice to shut down its police force or reverse its policy regarding student organizations.

 

Please contact your representatives and ask them to support this legislation!

 

http://factn.org/portfolio/prohibits-delegation-of-police-authority-to-colleges-that-discriminate-against-religious-groups-sb-1241-and-hb-1150/gallery/legislation-bill-tracking-state-legislature/

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/340657/no-vanderbilt-you-cannot-use-state-power-restrict-liberty-david-french

 

[DaveTN]

If you are a Christian group and a Muslim can be elected by members to your “leadership”, isn’t your group pretty much hosed already?

 

 

[TMF]

If you are a Christian group and a Muslim can be elected by members to your “leadership”, isn’t your group pretty much hosed already?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I mean, I think it's a great idea to allow folks from other religions to be part of a religious group of another faith, but to be on the leadership council I would assume there would be a vote, which would make the concern of having a non-believer in a leadership position moot, right?

[gjohnsoniv]

So if you're a Christian group, why would you elect a Muslim or other religion into a position of power? That defeats the entire purpose? Seems like much to do about nothing and a bunch of rich kids whining.

[Hozzie]

I don't really care either way personally, but let's be clear about what this is.  This isn't about a Muslim wanting be in a Christian group or any combination thereof, this is a about any of them allowing someone who is homosexual to be a part of the group.  No more do I believe that it is the University's right to tell a religious group who they can and can't have as members, do I believe that the state should tell a private organization what their rules can and can't be.  This isn't about "leaders" in a group, this is  about religious bigotry, but lets not disguise this as a Catholic vs. Muslim issue.  They are probably more agreeing on this than anything else in history.  As long as the groups are not getting Vanderbilt funds, I don't see why they should not be allowed to do as they please, but if they are getting funding from the school (keep in mind that using school facilities to me is getting funding), then for me it is all fair game for the school to put rules around what they believe is right or wrong. 

 

This is also really just about "official recognition" by the University.  If you want to have your organization and you really believe in your principles, who cares if you are recognized by the University.  

 

I am tired of all the hypocrisy from every end of the spectrum.  I could care less if a Catholic organization doesn't want to allow gays, that's there choice as far as I am concerned.  I go back to something my parents taught me a long time ago.  My house, my rules.  As long as they are footing the bill, it's their rules.  You choose to attend their University.  Don't like their rules, go somewhere else, but for me the State should not be telling a private University what it can and can't do in this regard.

Don't get me wrong, I am tired of the Gay community crying Wolf over everything too.  I actually support their right to marry, etc because I believe in absolute separation of Church and State, but at some point, people need to agree to disagree and move on.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Hozzie

[TMF]

So what happens if an "unregulated" group decides to have a prayer circle in the quad? Does this mean they're gonna get bear maced or they just won't be allowed to use the auditorium for Abstinence Is Awesome Day?

[partypilot1]

I will contact my reps, thanks for the heads up!

[56FordGuy]

Last year the Tennessee Legislature passed a bill that would require private collages, including Vanderbilt, to protect its' students most basic religious liberties. However the Governor vetoed the bill... claiming that a private university should be able to set its own policies.

 

 

Yeah! The school can't tell private groups how to operate! Christianity is about loving one another, unless you're gay. Or Muslim. Lord knows we can't have them Muslims and gays around the Christians- might be contagious or something! 

 

So let's use the government to make this private university do what we want! Yay freedom! Yay America! C'mon, bubba, let's get 'em! 

 

:rofl:  :rofl: 

[Chucktshoes]

Yeah! The school can't tell private groups how to operate! Christianity is about loving one another, unless you're gay. Or Muslim. Lord knows we can't have them Muslims and gays around the Christians- might be contagious or something! 
 
So let's use the government to make this private university do what we want! Yay freedom! Yay America! C'mon, bubba, let's get 'em! 
 
:rofl:  :rofl: 

It's because they really are all about smaller government. Duh!

[Guest 270win]

The school can just have armed guards if the police force is gone and even go to the city PD to get police commissions.

 

 

Unfortunately with that being a private school, there is probably not much that can or should be done.  It is no different than Union Univ not allowing Muslim groups on campus.  If you had to have Campus Crusade off campus somewhere, that is what you'd have to do.  Not that inconvenient since Vanderbilt is in the middle of town.

[cybernorris]

Christian groups on campus have always accepted anyone who wants to participate. They just want to maintain the right to restrict leadership positions to those who agree with the group's principals. This is not bigotry.

 

The policy has nothing to do with homosexuality. Vandy has very publicly let it be known that the "all comers" policy is specifically aimed at removing all Christian groups from campus. This IS bigotry and discrimination.

 

Vandy also applies a double standard by not applying the "all comers" policy to all student organizations. Fraternities and sororities are exempt.

Edited March 3, 2013 by cybernorris

[56FordGuy]

Vandy has very publicly let it be known that the "all comers" policy is specifically aimed at removing all Christian groups from campus. This IS bigotry and discrimination.

 

Vandy also applies a double standard by not applying the "all comers" policy to all student organizations. Fraternities and sororities are exempt.

 

Vandy is a private university and should be able to set policies as they see fit without big brother telling them what to do. 

 

If students disagree with the school's policies, they are free to take their education dollars elsewhere. 

[cybernorris]

Vandy is a private university and should be able to set policies as they see fit without big brother telling them what to do.

If students disagree with the school's policies, they are free to take their education dollars elsewhere.

So a private university should be allowed to violate their students' constitutional rights? And the state has no right to withdraw its support if it continues to do so?

Vandy would be able to disband its police force and continue discriminating against religious student groups if this passes. That would be their right as a private institution.

[Smith]

I'm just glad there's no bigotry about perceived bigotry about Vanderbilt's bigotry. :shake:

[Chucktshoes]

The rights enumerated in the Constitution only apply to government, not private organizations.if we were talking about UT, I'd be right there with you but we're not. Vandy is a private entity and therefore should have the ability to set its internal policies how it wishes. Of course, I view the large portions of the 1964 Civil Rights Act that apply to private business to be illegitimate. If one is not acting on behalf of the government, then one should be free to associate, or not associate as one pleases.

TGO is a great analogy. You have the right to free speech, you don't have the right to exercise it here. This is David's house, you play by his rules, or you leave. These student orgs are in Vandy's house and have to play by their rules. Edited March 3, 2013 by Chucktshoes

[TrickyNicky]

I don't see any rights being violated, its reall simple, don't like the policies at Vandy? Adios, don't let the door hit ya on the way out. No one is forcing anyone to go to the school, its not publicly owned, take it or leave it.

As to the policies themselves, I'll have to do a little reading on them before I decide how much or little to care. On the matter of asking the gov to step in and FORCE a privately owned institution to comply, I don't even need to think about that to know I don't support it. Quite frankly its none of their business and they've got more important things to do.

[Worriedman]

Let's just make sure Vandy gets no tax dollars, that it is a "Private" entity, then it can do as it pleases.  But, if it receives public money, does that not change the situation?

[Chucktshoes]

In what manner does it receive public money and more importantly, why does it receive any public money at all?

If it receives public money in the form of student aid (loans, grants, etc.) how is that any different than a private religious college that requires chapel service getting those same types of funds?

If it receives public funds directly, once again I ask why? Regardless of any internal policies, those funds should be cut off because it is not a proper use of taxpayer dollars.

[cybernorris]

The student organizations merely want the same rights every single off-campus religious organization enjoys... the right to use faith-based criteria when selecting leaders. The Supreme Court unanimously affirmed this right in January of 2012 in the case Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School v. EEOC.

http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/hosanna-tabor-evangelical-lutheran-church-and-school-v-eeoc/

 

 

It sound like most everyone in the discussion agrees that the State has the right to withdraw any support from the school.

 

The Legislature is considering removing Vandy's ability to use a State authority, in the form of a police force, while it continues specific acts of unconstitutional behavior.

[macville]

I don't think Vanderbilt should be allowed to have a police force as a private company/non-profit any which way. There's no responsibility to the public if it's private.

[2.ooohhh]

 "

 

The student organizations merely want the same rights every single off-campus religious organization enjoys... the right to use faith-based criteria when selecting leaders. The Supreme Court unanimously affirmed this right in January of 2012 in the case Hosanna-Tabor Evangelical Lutheran Church and School v. EEOC.

http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/hosanna-tabor-evangelical-lutheran-church-and-school-v-eeoc/

 

 

It sound like most everyone in the discussion agrees that the State has the right to withdraw any support from the school.

 

The Legislature is considering removing Vandy's ability to use a State authority, in the form of a police force, while it continues specific acts of unconstitutional behavior.

 

 

The student groups' rights are NOT being trampled, they CHOOSE to apply for space on campus, Vanderbilt allows them on the campus if they agree to follow the University's rules. When you're on campus it's their ball, their court, their rules; end of story. 

 

 

 

 

 

"The views and opinions expressed here are not necessarily those of Vanderbilt University Medical Center, and they may not be used for advertising or product endorsement purposes."

Edited March 3, 2013 by 2.ooohhh

[itchytriggerfinger]

Yeah! The school can't tell private groups how to operate! Christianity is about loving one another, unless you're gay. Or Muslim. Lord knows we can't have them Muslims and gays around the Christians- might be contagious or something! 
 
So let's use the government to make this private university do what we want! Yay freedom! Yay America! C'mon, bubba, let's get 'em! 
 
:rofl:  :rofl: 

what about gay Muslim? That would be like Zero Hour! :)

[Joe357]

I personally don't care about vandy as a whole. What is missing in today's society is GOD and his laws. We have taken him out of everything in this country IT NEEDS TO STOP unless we (meaning this country) wants to be another Sodom and Gomorrah Edited March 3, 2013 by joesig

[cybernorris]

Based on the law passed last year, Vandy apparently gets more than $24 million from the State of Tennessee.

[2.ooohhh]

Based on the law passed last year, Vandy apparently gets more than $24 million from the State of Tennessee.

 

"More than 24 million" is not really a significant number when your looking at an organizaion with an operating budget of 3.5 BILLION last year. :stunned:

Edited March 4, 2013 by 2.ooohhh