Hand To Hand Self Defense Training?

[Lumber_Jack]

We all carry guns in an effort to avoid hand to hand confrontations, but in the real world things happen and you very well might be in a physical altercation either before you can draw your weapon or be separated from your weapon.   Im not interested in being the baddest man on the block or starting fist fights in the Walmart parking lot, but I also dont want to ignore an aspect of training that might save my or someone else's life someday.  

 

In todays MMA/UFC world there are tons of people out there that know at least a few moves, that can get you hurt if you dont know a good defense to them.  A former roomate in college was big into Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and he would tell me all the time "never underestimate the guy on the street, you dont know what he knows or doesn't know."

 

 

So, how many of you think about hand to hand defense, and do you actually seek instruction in this area?  Are there any good resources out there that could be of use on this topic.  I could easily go to one of the martial arts centers here in Knoxville  but just thought we could discuss it here some.  

[Monkeyman2500]

I kind of view fighting as a young mans game. It dosent hurt to improve your self both physically and mentally for an attack though. I think it would be more benifical to train against a knife or other weapon too. As far as MMA guys go I trained with a few back in the day, most of the guys are only going to attack when prevoked. It's been a while but I only knew those types to get in bar fights, and even then only when provoked. I don't worry myself even though Im a big guy and have fought several times, I'm probably not going to do anything unless they mess with the old lady. And if I saw a regular joe getting a beat down I will definitely step in. Im much more afraid of a knife to the back or gun to the head sort of thing.

[Lumber_Jack]

I kind of view fighting as a young mans game. It dosent hurt to improve your self both physically and mentally for an attack though. I think it would be more benifical to train against a knife or other weapon too. As far as MMA guys go I trained with a few back in the day, most of the guys are only going to attack when prevoked. It's been a while but I only knew those types to get in bar fights, and even then only when provoked. I don't worry myself even though Im a big guy and have fought several times, I'm probably not going to do anything unless they mess with the old lady. And if I saw a regular joe getting a beat down I will definitely step in. Im much more afraid of a knife to the back or gun to the head sort of thing.

I agree definitely not interested in bar fights, especially since I don't go to bars often. But I've found myself caught up in escalated situations that I had nothing to do with. Especially at sporting events, where alcohol has everyone feeing like the hulk and ready to fight. I'm often amazed at how brazen and quick to fight people are.

My mother-in-law is bad for telling people they need to stop using foul language and such, which never goes well. There has almost been a situation at least twice. I try to tell her to let it go and be quite but she doesn't understand the true implications of escalating drunk dudes to fight mode.

I view knife or club defense in the same light. If you can't reach or don't have a gun, can you survive?

My main concern is evading an attacker without using a weapon. I've learned just enough to know I don't know what I'm doing.

[Guest ab28]

No matter how much technology advances, I think hand to hand will always be an important skill. I have trained some, but consider myself a novice.

[Monkeyman2500]

I don't go to bars and if I do they are small and quiet. I didn't think about a game though. Anytime there's drunks around there's a potential for a fight. If I was in a situation I would do everything to avoid confrontation and alert an authority. I literally never have to deal with that because of my size. Even the biggest drunk roidhead out there would have a hard time, but there is a difference between trying to go toe to toe and trying to survive. I tell the wife a lot there are many very weak points on the human body. Eyes, ears, throat, nose, balls, you know the rest. When I used to fight I threw punches to knock out or subdue an opponent and win the fight. If I'm trying to survive an attack I'm trying to rip off an ear, break a collerbone, or poke an eye out. There are some good classes out there to take but I think most of them are geared towards fighting and not defense, but still better than none at all.

[daddyo]

I trained in Wado for four years, went a little beyond first dan, but still run through the basics from time to time. The basic concept of the discipline is to use the other guy's weight and momentum against him. That said, I've never had to use it and hope I never do, just like I hope I never have to draw down on someone.

[RED333]

As far as I me, there is no such thing as "hand to hand".

I am gona use keys, fingers to eyes, kick to the balls, pull hair,

stick, rock, bite, and what ever I have close.

When it comes to that kind of "defense" NO RULES.

[Will Carry]

I earned a black belt in Tae Kwon Do in 1974 from Young Il Kong.  It's a good thing they don't take'em back. I don't recon I am worthy to call myself a black belt any more. I usually don't mention it. 

        I was down at Myrtle Beach South Carolina back in 1975, three of my pals and I. We came across 4 Marines just out of Paris Island. Well one of my buddies has a chip on his shoulder becuase he was short and he was always pickin fights and sure enough he picked a fight with the 4 Marines. One of the Marines charged at me, it scared the heck out of me so I took off running.  He chased me through parking lots, back alleys and chain linked fences and I knew he was going to catch me sooner or later so I spun around and kicked him in the nuts and beat him about the head. He went down and the fight was over. We made friends and on the way back he said, "If I had known I was gonna get whopped I wouldn't have chased you so hard."  We went back into a bar and I bought him drinks. (Back then you could drink at 18). The other guys had not even thrown a punch.

 

The best thing about martial arts was it got me away from the neighborhood kids. When they got busted for DUI and possession of a controled substance, I was not with them. I was dating a wonderful young lady and going to school in Nashville. I thank God for that.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Will Carry

[D3vo]

I may not be able to carry a cop with me everywhere I go, but I can bring my 8 year old Black Belt daughter. Seriously I have learned some simple self defense maneuvers from sitting in her classes for almost five years.

[BigK]

Seems like every time this subject comes up, I think back to whenI was a younger, thinner, quicker, more flexible, and stronger version of myself. I took some Ishnryu and Tae Kwon Do classes back then. Just enough to think I was a bada$$, but not enough to really be one.

Watching MMA nowadays and seeing these athletes in better shape than I ever was makes me remember why I got an HCP. Based on cardio alone, I'd get my butt whooped in a regular fight. So, I rely on paranoia and avoidance to keep me out of trouble, if possible.

[Spots]

My dad has been in Martial arts since the 70's so I started young. I have 14+ years and black belts in Tae Kwon Do, Judo and hapkido. I was a brown belt instructor in MCMAP in the USMC and Im currently taking jiujitsu. One thing I have always been taught is never fight fair. If im down to punches, kicks and throws so be it. I feel confident in my abilities to at least put up a good fight. But if at all possible Ill find a rock, a stick, or preferably a knife or gun to sway the qdvantage in my favor. I think its good to study something to at least understand the basics. But remember this when it comes to weapons defenses and things. The best thing to have in a knife fight is a 12 gauge shotgun. Criminals use weapons to gain unfair advantage. If you take away that advantage by producing a weapon with equal or greater power and you posses equal or greater skill, a good 75% of criminals will run and live to fight another day. And you are at least on equal footing with the other 25% that decides to fight. Thats where viloence of action comes in. If I think you intend to kill or maim me, I will try to retaliate with an overwhelming violent action, being as aggressive as possible to end the fight quickly


Edit*

Im fairly certain looks help also. I had a lot more people try to pick fights in bars when I was clean shaven and young looking while in the Corps. Everybody seems to leave me along now that I'm bigger and have the big beard. The permanent pissed off look probably helps to lmao I think the old mountain man look helps lol Edited March 2, 2013 by Spots

[TrickyNicky]

I'm with Spots. Grow a beard, people leave you alone when they clearly see their girly little goatee has been outmatched by a full on grizzly Adams face and neck covering beard. 60% of the time, it works every time.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

If George Zimmerman had any hand to hand skills he probably would not be in the situation he is presently in......

 

If your ONLY answer to a problem is to be able to pull a gun I hope you never have a problem when you are somewhere that you are not armed.

 

At the same time, at arms length, going for the gun BEFORE you have created space or controlled the opponents limb closest to the weapon you are probably going to end up in a weapon retention/disarm situation....anyone remember Julie Jacks?

 

The better skilled you are...the better skilled you are ...period. If you have good guns skills AND good hand skills then you are far better off than if you JUST have good gun skills.  But you do not have to be a 10th degree blackbelt super ninja to be functional . You just need to know some basics and then apply it with extreme violence.  Learn 3 basic strikes, a default head cover (to keep from getting knocked out) proper body mechanics (to make it less likely to get knocked down) and you are well on your way to handling most REALISTIC street situations that are not "mutually agreed upon combat". Combine those with accessing your gun (or knife)  while under attack and you'll be you'll be far and away ahead of most folks. 

[Lumber_Jack]

I'm with Spots. Grow a beard, people leave you alone when they clearly see their girly little goatee has been outmatched by a full on grizzly Adams face and neck covering beard. 60% of the time, it works every time.

Done

If George Zimmerman had any hand to hand skills he probably would not be in the situation he is presently in......

If your ONLY answer to a problem is to be able to pull a gun I hope you never have a problem when you are somewhere that you are not armed.

At the same time, at arms length, going for the gun BEFORE you have created space or controlled the opponents limb closest to the weapon you are probably going to end up in a weapon retention/disarm situation....anyone remember Julie Jacks?

The better skilled you are...the better skilled you are ...period. If you have good guns skills AND good hand skills then you are far better off than if you JUST have good gun skills. But you do not have to be a 10th degree blackbelt super ninja to be functional . You just need to know some basics and then apply it with extreme violence. Learn 3 basic strikes, a default head cover (to keep from getting knocked out) proper body mechanics (to make it less likely to get knocked down) and you are well on your way to handling most REALISTIC street situations that are not "mutually agreed upon combat". Combine those with accessing your gun (or knife) while under attack and you'll be you'll be far and away ahead of most folks.

Great info. Thanks for chiming in. I guess the best way to learn and have real bodies to practice with is to find a class and participate.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Sounds like this just might be something you might be interested in.......http://www.suarezinternationalstore.com/oct19-2013-zero-five-pistol-gunfighting-columbia-mo.aspx#.UTJrFzCkp9B....If so I'll be offering one here in Chattanooga later in the year......probably August or after. 

[Monkeyman2500]

You have a beard? Well heck there's nothing to worry about then. Your part of the club. Even if something happens another guy with a beard will immediately show up and save your a##.

[JG55]

If George Zimmerman had any hand to hand skills he probably would not be in the situation he is presently in......

 

If your ONLY answer to a problem is to be able to pull a gun I hope you never have a problem when you are somewhere that you are not armed.

 

At the same time, at arms length, going for the gun BEFORE you have created space or controlled the opponents limb closest to the weapon you are probably going to end up in a weapon retention/disarm situation....anyone remember Julie Jacks?

 

The better skilled you are...the better skilled you are ...period. If you have good guns skills AND good hand skills then you are far better off than if you JUST have good gun skills.  But you do not have to be a 10th degree blackbelt super ninja to be functional . You just need to know some basics and then apply it with extreme violence.  Learn 3 basic strikes, a default head cover (to keep from getting knocked out) proper body mechanics (to make it less likely to get knocked down) and you are well on your way to handling most REALISTIC street situations that are not "mutually agreed upon combat". Combine those with accessing your gun (or knife)  while under attack and you'll be you'll be far and away ahead of most folks. 

[homeagain]

My dad has been in Martial arts since the 70's so I started young. I have 14+ years and black belts in Tae Kwon Do, Judo and hapkido. I was a brown belt instructor in MCMAP in the USMC and Im currently taking jiujitsu. One thing I have always been taught is never fight fair. If im down to punches, kicks and throws so be it. I feel confident in my abilities to at least put up a good fight. But if at all possible Ill find a rock, a stick, or preferably a knife or gun to sway the qdvantage in my favor. I think its good to study something to at least understand the basics. But remember this when it comes to weapons defenses and things. The best thing to have in a knife fight is a 12 gauge shotgun. Criminals use weapons to gain unfair advantage. If you take away that advantage by producing a weapon with equal or greater power and you posses equal or greater skill, a good 75% of criminals will run and live to fight another day. And you are at least on equal footing with the other 25% that decides to fight. Thats where viloence of action comes in. If I think you intend to kill or maim me, I will try to retaliate with an overwhelming violent action, being as aggressive as possible to end the fight quickly


Edit*

Im fairly certain looks help also. I had a lot more people try to pick fights in bars when I was clean shaven and young looking while in the Corps. Everybody seems to leave me along now that I'm bigger and have the big beard. The permanent pissed off look probably helps to lmao I think the old mountain man look helps lol

 

Amen to that.  Martial arts is great when it comes to teaching you your limitations.  It takes about the length of time before you get to shodan to figure out that you really haven't learned to fight.  Bout that time is when you figure out what not to do....fight fair.  Hit hard and don't stop, go for the eyes and throat, jab holes in 'em with anything you can grab, and use any kind of force multiplier you can access.  I also try to avoid people as much as possible cause most of 'em are a$$hats anyway.  Can't grow a beard.....too much Cherokee.....maybe I should take my fake tooth out and sport the hockey look?

[BigK]

All other things being equal, I bet one of those Mike Tyson facial tattoos works as good as a full-on beard, but I'll concede that at least you can shave the beard when you change your mind.

[itchytriggerfinger]

You have a beard? Well heck there's nothing to worry about then. Your part of the club. Even if something happens another guy with a beard will immediately show up and save your a##.

 

I can't grow a full beard.  Can I get help if I have one of these? 

 

[Monkeyman2500]

Holy moly Itchy, if you wear that your never gonna get messed with.

[UncleJak]

I have multiple black belts and a small beard, so i guess i am good. 

The best advice i can give: a good offense is the best defense!

[Guest hifiguy]

Think about it daily and train it at least once a week for several years.  Started as a teen with traditional Karate.  I found it to be flawed for real world usage.  That's not knocking it, as it has it's place and is effective for what it was designed for.  Started training in Krav Maga a few years ago and found it to have a lot of answers to these sort of problems.  Have also started some no gi BJJ as of late that blends well with Krav. 

 

I've believe there are a few truths that will get anyone in the right direction:

- Do something/anything that will get you physical, moving, and in better shape

- Find a system that you can work on a weekly basis

- That system needs to focus on some core combatives (punches, knees, elbows, low kicks)

- The system needs to function under stress, from positions of disadvantage, by anyone, whether cold, hot, tired, bloody, sweaty, etc...

- Overwhelming violence via these combatives wins the day

- Gross motor movements work under stress where small motor skills are diminished

- Targeting eyes, throat, groin, knees

-  You have to train against live, thinking, and resisting opponents

- The thug in the parking lot that shanks you in the liver and breaks you jaw doesn't care what color/how many belts you have

- Learn to fight in all the ranges, shooting, kicking, punching, clinch, and the ground

- You may end up on the ground, learn how to cope and get up

- You will be fighting more than 1 person

 

Augment this weekly training with seminars from professionals such as Suarez Intl., Sonny P, Vunak, John Whitman, Eyal Yanilov, etc...

 

The firearm has it's place but if you can't access it, it does you no good.  The same can be said for knives, sticks, canes, tasers, etc..

 

Hand to hand skills can buy you the time/space to access your force multiplier of choice.

[Guest hifiguy]

Oh yeah two more

 

- There are no rules

- MOVE!

[jcoosi]

Well if my girly gotee doesnt deter them then I do train in GoJuRyu