The BEST .380 Defensive Load

[DavidH1]

You'll likely get several different answers. Here is some helpful info.

.380 ACP Ammunition Performance Data

I guess that squashes the "it won't expand theory". Most expanded around a half inch with 9-12in penetration. The test was in 91? Look how far ammo has come since then.

[Reservoir Dog]

I carry FMJ in my Ruger LCP.

[Bad_Bowtie]

Remington FMJ in my P3at. Only brand Ive been able to function test in it. May try the Hornady CD tho soon as it hits my dealers shelf.

[DavidH1]

Hollow point will expand to a half in. with 9-12 penetration. according to some FBI rest. Here's a list from a gun test with a Sig P238.

[Guest rickis38]

Hornady Critical Def gets my vote.

[gregintenn]

Ball ammo. It feeds every time. It would also penetrate better than anything else.

[Guest HexHead]

Critical Defense in my Colt Mustang

[Guest 70below]

FMJ's in my girlfriends BDA 380......13rds of FMJ's should do the trick. I'd rather she was getting solid penetration and multiple hits with less chance of a stoppage to slow her down.

[Parrothead]

Ball ammo. It feeds every time. It would also penetrate better than anything else.

agreed

[frankmako]

i am a fmj guy in my p3at. i want a round that feeds with no problems. for some reason ever once in a while i would have feeding problems with hp ammo, but with fmj no problems. i shot both rounds at two wet chattanooga phone books, the big yellow pages books. the fmj and hp (hydro shock) both went through both phone books. speer gold dot did not, stopped in second book. i was standing about five feet away. so penetration in my test was the same, through both books, except gold dot. so i go with best feeding ammo.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

Double post.

Edited December 14, 2009 by Todd@CIS

[Guest Todd@CIS]

I guess that squashes the "it won't expand theory". Most expanded around a half inch with 9-12in penetration. The test was in 91? Look how far ammo has come since then.

No, it doesn't...and I never said that .380 won't expand.

What I said was, .380 won't expand AND penetrate to recommended depths (exception maybe being the Hornady XTP, only because it doesn't expand much).

FBI recommends 12-18" of bare and clothed calibrated gel penetration for defensive purposes.

Don't make the mistake that many seem to make in thinking that gel penetration equals human penetration...it doesn't.

Most terminal ballistics experts will tell you that the "average" human penetration depths are about 2/3s of what gel depths are.

Edited December 28, 2009 by Todd@CIS

[~Emily~]

If I had the opportunity to choose I'd probably get JHP, but due to scarcity and price I use whatever I can get that doesn't make me take out a loan.

[RinTN]

I've got both Hornady CD and Remington Golden Saber.

[leroy]

I got some of both laying around any one willing to let me shoot them.

This is a great post. All this stuff works if you can shoot. Shot placement is everything. I've got a neice who's hubby is an EM doctor. His little quip is this: "Shooting is like real estate. Location is everything." Bottom line, they are all dangerous in the right hands -- little to big. Remember, if you aint got a gun with you; its of no use to you.

My take: Dont worry. Load up whatever is reliable and practice a lot.

Kind regards and Merry Christmas.

LEROY

[timcalhoun]

This is a great post. All this stuff works if you can shoot. Shot placement is everything. I've got a neice who's hubby is an EM doctor. His little quip is this: "Shooting is like real estate. Location is everything." Bottom line, they are all dangerous in the right hands -- little to big. Remember, if you aint got a gun with you; its of no use to you.

My take: Dont worry. Load up whatever is reliable and practice a lot.

Kind regards and Merry Christmas.

LEROY

Yep, that is a standard reply. But heck, I don't want to get shot with a 22 short either or for that matter a pellet gun....................what does this prove. Nada.

[leroy]

Yep, that is a standard reply. But heck, I don't want to get shot with a 22 short either or for that matter a pellet gun....................what does this prove. Nada.

It proves any caliber can kill or disable you in the right hands. It's simple when you think about it. This kid treats gunshot wounds every day in Jacksonville, FL. Some of them die. All of them are sick enough to go to the hospital. I'll be more interested in your observations when you have some direct experience.

LEROY

[Guest Todd@CIS]

I have a fair amout of direct experience GSWs.

I do not get too "wrapped around the axel" with caliber / load debates (all handguns suck for SD).

If I was told to go to work with any particular round, as long as it was reliable, I'll probably make it work.

However, when one has the choice of what to put in their gun (and that's what we're talking about here, there are some loads that are clearly superior to others), why wouldn't you choose those in order to give you every advantage?

Killing is not what is being discussed here...rapid incapacitation is. The two are not necessarily the same thing.

I'll stick by my comments in post numbers 20, 39, and 88.

[timcalhoun]

I'll be more interested in your observations when you have some direct experience.

LEROY

So are you saying I need to be shot in order to have an opinion? I hope not.

I don't care what people carry. Carry what you want and makes you happy. A 22 derringer is better than nothing. I carry a 380 some too. I even have hollow points.

All I was trying to say is that particular analogy is goofy. I don't want you to throw a football at my face as hard as you can but that doesn't mean that I'm going to carry a football around for self defense.

And "in the right hands" a pencil can be very lethal, but again I would feel a little under gunned with a pencil. And I don't know how quickly a pencil will halt a threat either. That's all I'm sayin'

[DaveTN]

It proves any caliber can kill or disable you in the right hands. It's simple when you think about it. This kid treats gunshot wounds every day in Jacksonville, FL. Some of them die. All of them are sick enough to go to the hospital. I'll be more interested in your observations when you have some direct experience.

LEROY

I have been in shootings and been involved in plenty of armed encounters with bad guys; I have never lost or been shot, but I will offer this…

A Doctor is not concerned with the same things you will be should you ever face an armed gunman. I couldn’t care less if he dies, especially if he makes it to the hospital. My goal is simple… Make him unable or unwilling to fire his weapon at me.

Shot placement is a very good thing to practice, as you will react how you train. However… to think you can disable an armed gunman with a .380 because of where you are going to place your rounds is a lofty goal when the adrenalin is pumping like you have probably never experienced before.

A .380 is a terrible self defense round. It is for use when you don’t have anything else. I have seen several people shot with .380’s. I had a shooting victim pull a .380 round from under his skin and hand it to me.

The caliber wars will go on forever, but I hope anyone reading these threads looking for good information will have seconds thoughts on using a .380 for anything other than a last resort.

[molonlabetn]

+1 Dave & Todd... Real world trumps theory any day.

Only thing I can add is an experience from several years ago shooting at a hog carcass with .380, 9mm, .45 and 12ga... shooting the head, specifically, none of the FMJ rounds from any of the pistol calibers did more than just glance off the skull and tear some skin... but the 9mm and .45 jhp bullets punched right through from nearly any angle (didn't have .380 jhps at the time), but just that seemed to indicate to me that the JHP profile is more efficient at least during initial penetration and when large bones are encountered, and FMJ is more prone to deflection... I'm not sure how much differently that would pan out in a SD situation, but I'd like to be somewhat confident that my bullet is going to destroy what it hits instead of glancing off a rib, etc... unpredictably. This is why I will always use the heaviest JHP bullet I can get, in a given caliber (147gr for 9mm, 230gr for .45 and if I ever carried a .380 I would stock up on some 102gr golden sabers long before depending on a round-nose).

[leroy]

So are you saying I need to be shot in order to have an opinion? I hope not.

I don't care what people carry. Carry what you want and makes you happy. A 22 derringer is better than nothing. I carry a 380 some too. I even have hollow points.

All I was trying to say is that particular analogy is goofy. I don't want you to throw a football at my face as hard as you can but that doesn't mean that I'm going to carry a football around for self defense.

And "in the right hands" a pencil can be very lethal, but again I would feel a little under gunned with a pencil. And I don't know how quickly a pencil will halt a threat either. That's all I'm sayin'

Tim:________

No one is saying you need to be shot to have an opinion. This kid never shot anybody (thank God); but he makes a living patching up people who are shot. I'll take a little leap of intuition here and will presume you do not. I would also presume that you never have had to shoot anyone (thank God for that too). That means that your opinion is just that; an opinion -- just like mine. That means that it is retorical and is not backed by experience -- this kid has experience in patching up people and pronouncing them dead down at the hospital where they do that sort of thing routinely. That being said; I prefer his opinion.

I aint trying to pick a fight with you or anyone else on this forum about this. I'm saying all guns work if you know how to use them. Remember; you chose to start this little spitting contest--- I didn't. I just added to the conversation. You chose to critique it. In spite of what others may say; shot placement is the most important aspect of disabling a threat.

Summary: the analogy aint goofy. It is a valid observation. For you or anyone else to say otherwise is childish. You seem to be quibbling about the tools to be used.

Thus endeth the lesson.

LEROY

Edited December 15, 2009 by leroy

[timcalhoun]

Tim:________

No one is saying you need to be shot to have an opinion. This kid never shot anybody (thank God); but he makes a living patching up people who are shot. I'll take a little leap of intuition here and will presume you do not. I would also presume that you never have had to shoot anyone (thank God for that too). That means that your opinion is just that; an opinion -- just like mine. That means that it is retorical and is not backed by experience -- this kid has experience in patching up people and pronouncing them dead down at the hospital where they do that sort of thing routinely. That being said; I prefer his opinion.

I aint trying to pick a fight with you or anyone else on this forum about this. I'm saying all guns work if you know how to use them. Remember; you chose to start this little spitting contest--- I didn't. I just added to the conversation. You chose to critique it. In spite of what others may say; shot placement is the most important aspect of disabling a threat.

Summary: the analogy aint goofy. It is a valid observation. For you or anyone else to say otherwise is childish. You seem to be quibbling about the tools to be used.

Thus endeth the lesson.

LEROY

Leroy,

I'm sorry you thought that I started a spitting match. That was not my intent.

This thread was about the efficiency of 380hp vs 380fmj. And no one including myself is saying that either can't kill someone. I think like Todd that the most important thing with a pistol is penetration, then permanent wound channel, then temporary wound channel. Pretty common really.

I asked a friend once when he was carrying a kel-tec 380 why he carried such a small caliber/gun. He responded with "if you think it is small why don't you stand over there and let me shoot you with it". And I said, I don't want to be hit in the head with a football either but I'm not going to carry one to stop a threat. And we both laughed.

No one wants to be shot by anything (wrist rocket included). And you can justify carrying small guns a bunch of ways. I carry my 380 when going for milk down the street cause I know I'll not strap my carry gun on for such a short trip and putting that little thing in my pocket is better than having nothing. But to justify a position by saying, "look no one wants to be shot by this round, therefore it must be a good man stopper". That's goofy to me. One has nothing to do with the other. That is all I was saying. I surely didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. Mine are and were not ruffled.

Back to the topic. 380 FMJ mainly.

[leroy]

Tim:_________

Thanks for the kindness. I'll take a baby aspirin and calm down now.

Kind regards,

LEROY

[Guest Plainsman]

Pulling rounds out from under their skin or not, I don't know a single person who likes to be shot with any round, including .380. I realize that stopping power is a a major factor in self defense, but with new personal defense rounds in .380, I am confident in carrying my LCP.

Didn't folks previously rant on about how the 9mm didn't have enough power as a defensive round? Don't hear too much about that anymore.