How would you react? OUTRAGEOUS!!

[strickj]

I'm sorry. I can not possibly get any more apples to apples than skin covering to skin covering.

The only difference is the amount of covering, the societal acceptance and religion. Boobs and hair - it's all the same from where I sit.

 

Are all of these women being oppressed?¹

 

If it is all about a symbol of oppression, then what about vehicles? Women are not allowed to drive over yonders, either. Where are your complaints about drivers ed. in schools here in the US?

Will you let your daughter drive one of those evil symbols of oppression?²

 

 

 

It is akin to putting a gold Star of David on a Jewish kid. It is complete unacceptable regardless of the context.

 

It's not the garment you have a problem with, it's the idea of a Muslim garment on Christian children? Honestly?

THAT I can completely understand, as I would have a problem with a teacher putting religious garments on my children². The children in that classroom that day were not being objectified. That's nonsense.

 

 

 

¹ Notice there's not an Amish woman in that pictorial. Are the Amish being oppressed, too?

²Boobs and hair are arguable, maybe.... but cars and cars are surely a direct comparison, no? 

³Context being kept to learning about cultural differences, or education about other religiously ruled nations. Other than that, this heathen shouldn't have to tell anyone here how I feel about religion in schools.

Edited March 12, 2013 by strickj

[TMF]

I'm sorry. I can not possibly get any more apples to apples than skin covering to skin covering.
The only difference is the amount of covering, the societal acceptance and religion. Boobs and hair - it's all the same from where I sit.
 
Are all of these women being oppressed?¹

 
If it is all about a symbol of oppression, then what about vehicles? Women are not allowed to drive over yonders, either. Where are your complaints about drivers ed. in schools here in the US?
Will you let your daughter drive one of those evil symbols of oppression?²

 

 
It's not the garment you have a problem with, it's the idea of a Muslim garment on Christian children? Honestly?
THAT I can completely understand, as I would have a problem with a teacher putting religious garments on my children². The children in that classroom that day were not being objectified. That's nonsense.
 
 
 
¹ Notice there's not an Amish woman in that pictorial. Are the Amish being oppressed, too?
²Boobs and hair are arguable, maybe.... but cars and cars are surely a direct comparison, no? 
³Context being kept to learning about cultural differences, or education about other religiously ruled nations. Other than that, this heathen shouldn't have to tell anyone here how I feel about religion in schools.

First, I don't see this as a religious issue, I see this as an oppressive government issue. Notice that I am specifically inflamed by the burqa. The only places where burqas are law, the women are forced to wear them under threat of jail and physical violence. We aren't talking about hair here. I think you really don't understand what it is like in those cultures for women, and the burqa is a symbol of oppression, just like a gold star on the Jews. It would be different if it was simply a cultural norm that wasn't forced. Comparing this to nuns and Amish is absolutely disingenuous of you. Those people have a choice. They choose a lifestyle and the norms that come with it. If a nun wants to run around with her titties bouncing in a bikini, she is free to do so, but she won't be a nun anymore. Choices. Choices are the difference here. There are only certain parts of Afghanistan where a woman can be out in public without a burqa. About 99.9% of the countryside it would result in jail and likely a violent beating. If you can not see why that is oppressive and how it is the garment which is the tool of such oppression then there is nothing I can do for you than offer you to come over and see for yourself.

With that, anyone who puts a burqa on my daughter will get punched in the face. I'm a law abiding citizen, but I will not tolerate such acts by government officials against my children.

[strickj]

 

 

I never said the women were not oppressed. I'm not sure if the women themselves think they're oppressed... but that goes back to the taboo'ish norms around the world thing. At any rate, it's not any of my concern what goes on over there.They choose to live there. They choose to live under an oppressive regime. Those poor oppressed women can hitch a camel to the airport at any time they so choose.Plenty of others have done it, yanno.

 

I am saying that a hair covering isn't a symbol for anything - no more than a Volkswagen car is a symbol for racism. Hair coverings are normal dress in many religions, and not just the nuns.

 

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying the "it's because of an oppressive government" spiel. I've heard Dane Cook tell better lines than that.

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is? Women are not allowed to drive over there, so don't allow them to ever ride in a vehicle too.

Oh, and the only make-up they're allowed to wear is eye liner. And they have to wear shoes in public...

 

 

With that, anyone who puts a burqa on my daughter will get punched in the face.

 

Stop oppressing your daughter with violence!

 

Sorry, couldn't resist. fist bump? :P

 

[TMF]

I never said the women were not oppressed. I'm not sure if the women themselves think they're oppressed... but that goes back to the taboo'ish norms around the world thing. At any rate, it's not any of my concern what goes on over there.They choose to live there. They choose to live under an oppressive regime. Those poor oppressed women can hitch a camel to the airport at any time they so choose.Plenty of others have done it, yanno.

 

I am saying that a hair covering isn't a symbol for anything - no more than a Volkswagen car is a symbol for racism. Hair coverings are normal dress in many religions, and not just the nuns.

 

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying the "it's because of an oppressive government" spiel. I've heard Dane Cook tell better lines than that.

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is? Women are not allowed to drive over there, so don't allow them to ever ride in a vehicle too.

Oh, and the only make-up they're allowed to wear is eye liner. And they have to wear shoes in public...

 

 

 

Stop oppressing your daughter with violence!

 

Sorry, couldn't resist. fist bump? :P

 

Well my issue here was never with the head veil thing, although I still don't understand why that is necessary for class.  A burqa is in no way religious or cultural.  Not being allowed to drive a car is another one, but that is one of many oppressive laws.  I don't really care what goes on in those countries.  If their men had any sack they wouldn't have their wives' and daughters' actions dictated to them by the government. 

 

The deal with the burqa is something that I don't expect you to understand unless you experience what it represents in a society where a female is nothing more than property.  I really can't.  I'd hate to default to the "you don't know because you weren't there" argument, but I can't help it.  I think the burqa is a visual representation of a society which has enslaved the opposite sex.  That sounds like an exaggeration to some, I'm sure, but it is no exaggeration at all.  I can't imagine what it would be like being born with a vagina in that part of the world, but knowing what I know it would not be pleasant.  I don't think the average person can comprehend what it is like to be owned, traded and treated as property from the time you are born until the time you die.  Yes, we complain about many of the rights that are violated by our own government, but it pales in comparison to what these people must endure.  It pisses me off to even think about, but once again, if their men had a sack they'd not tolerate it.  Of course, the men benefit from the system, and as far as I'm concerned the whole of them are complicit which is why I hate every last one of them that I have ever met and do not see them more than subhuman creatures.

 

I happen to have just enough sack not to tolerate it in my child's classroom.  Anyone who wants to voluntarily walk around in a burqa is welcome to, but when someone decides it's a good idea to put one on my daughter they'd better hope they have a good dental plan.

[Guest sculpinyakker]

I will not say there is no abuse of women over there, but I must say again something about the burqa. It is a defining part of the culture AND religion over there.

 

Anyone, please correct me if I misunderstand; I thought as in MANY religions, covering the head of female & sometimes male is a symbol of piety. Specifically in the religion discussed here, as in others, covering the head of a female is done to prevent tempting men and angels with mortal beauty, not to oppress the women. If there are laws concerning female wardrobe over there, it is based on the religion of the men as well as the women, and I think that is a fine basis for law.

 

The topic of this thread is not the treatment of women over there. It is that children donned clothes commonly worn by folks of a different culture & religion, in an American school, voluntarily, as an aid to education about those folks.! Connecting these two ideas seems to me to be- OUTRAGEOUS! 

 

Also, help me understand the star of David bit... If I were Jewish, wouldn't I be proud to wear a symbol of my religion?

Edited March 12, 2013 by sculpinyakker

[TMF]

I will not say there is no abuse of women over there, but I must say again something about the burqa. It is a defining part of the culture AND religion over there.
 
Anyone, please correct me if I misunderstand; I thought as in MANY religions, covering the head of female & sometimes male is a symbol of piety. Specifically in the religion discussed here, as in others, covering the head of a female is done to prevent tempting men and angels with mortal beauty, not to oppress the women. If there are laws concerning female wardrobe over there, it is based on the religion of the men as well as the women, and I think that is a fine basis for law.
 
The topic of this thread is not the treatment of women over there. It is that children donned clothes commonly worn by folks of a different culture & religion, in an American school, voluntarily, as an aid to education about those folks.! Connecting these two ideas seems to me to be- OUTRAGEOUS! 
 
Also, help me understand the star of David bit... If I were Jewish, wouldn't I be proud to wear a symbol of my religion?

Not when you consider the history behind the wearing of it in order to identify the second class citizens.

Now, onto the "dress" code. I'm am not a scholar of all things Muslim, but I have a decent understanding of the Quran, hadiths and Muslim culture. You are correct regarding certain dress being a symbol of piety, but there is nothing in the Quran regarding chadors, burqas or similar clothing. A burqa goes far beyond covering the hair.... Way beyond it. It is a complete head to toe garment. The punishment for exposure is severe in certain parts. It was designed as a tool of objectification and enslavement by folks who felt threatened by women's liberation movements around the world. It represents ABSOLUTELY NOTHING historically religious any more than saying it is a mandate in Christianity to wear a burqa.

The problem is folks mistake these things as religious and cultural when these practices only came about in recent history and were put in to place by a very small faction of zealots who happened to take control in a power vacuum. Only when people see video of a woman being executed for alleged infidelity to a cheering crowd of men does the western world recoil in disgust, but no one stops to consider that these are not isolated incidents. They are happening every day; there just aren't video cameras everywhere to capture it. I'll be damned if someone is going to have my children imitate such a savage culture which is a cancer of oppression under the guise of tolerance and understanding. The only thing they should be teaching our kids about these people is they are evil right down to their soulless core.

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

Yeah.. I am all for learning about different religions and all but I think it went a bit far. They could have left the dress up out of the lesson and just looked at the pictures .

 

And I am in the process of reading the Quran and Sharia Law.....lets just say ,neither one uplift or hold a woman sacred. And they are definetly not equal.

I dont care what faith you belong to.. if you treat your  wife and mother of your children like a piece of dirt.. You are a scumbag...Muslim or jewish or mormon...etc .. 

Then again.. we dont live in a 3rd world crapp hole