45 ACP. case failure.

[vujade]

hi guys.

 

What would cause this?

 

 

 

45acp.  loaded with a 230 grain FMJ and 5.5 grains of unique. I'm pretty meticulous about my reloading.  I weigh each charge and put a bullet in there before I even weigh the next one.

 

My friend was shooting my 1911; not I.  I asked him if it fired differently (harder or software).  It was just like the rest of them.  It hit the target just like the rest of them, no flyer or anything.

 

I checked the gun/barrel/bore - nothing out of the ordinary.  I then ran 2 magazines full into the target and no issues.  I later stripped/cleaned the gun; all normal.

 

I'm just curious on what would cause that.

Edited February 24, 2013 by vujade

[RED333]

Looks like it got smashed on eject and cycle.

Did it jam?

Was it hung in the ejction port?

My CETME will throw a case 50 feet, if it hits any thing hard it will beat the mess out of the case.

[Guest jkb4c]

Ah, finally something I can help diagnose! This is caused by the slide closing on the case before it clears the ejection port. It usually occurs on the last round of a magazine, because the previous rounds have been "helped" out of the ejection port by the next case. In my 1911 (which did exactly the same thing) it was caused by a clocking (or rotating) extractor; check to make sure your extractor is tightly fit to the firing pin stop. See if you can wiggle it in the channel, and look up youtube videos/internet articles about checking the extractor tension. You may need a new firing pin stop, or a new extractor. This could also just be a case of limp wristing, so just keep an eye on it for a while.

If it continues:

Sometimes adding some tension can help by keeping the extractor from moving around and losing its grip on the case. Be sure not to add too much. Occasionally people mention a recoil spring change (to a lower weight spring) helping fix this, or moving your powder charge up a bit (5.5 of Unique is a pretty mild load. I usually use 5.8 for "target" loads and I have heard that 6.0 under a 230 gr is the "military hardball" duplicate.) Both of these things will cause the slide to cycle a bit faster, causing the ejector to give the case a harder smack, thus helping it clear the ejection port. 

Out of curiosity, what make of 1911 is it?

Anyway, if left unchecked, it may just do it occasionally, or it may get worse. Mine would occasionally stuff the last case back into the magazine causing a pretty righteous jam. New extractor that held tension properly and did not clock fixed it right up, no problems since.

Edited February 24, 2013 by jkb4c

[gregintenn]

What would cause this?

 

A lawnmower? :shrug:

[Romad7]

Looks like it got smashed on eject and cycle.
Did it jam?
Was it hung in the ejction port?
My CETME will throw a case 50 feet, if it hits any thing hard it will beat the mess out of the case.

That reminds me of when of when I was launching brass at some old guys from about 8 tables down with that thing. Got some dirty looks that day!

Maybe hand cycle some empty cases and see if they are catching anything on the way out. Doesn't look like a pressure problem busting the case, that should cause it to burst outward I would think.

[vujade]

Thanks for the comments guys!

 

jkb4c - you're right on.  It was the last round now that I think about it. 

 

I just checked the gun.  The extractor is good and tight. 

 

1911 is a S&W.  It's got an external extractor.  I can't feel any play.  If it does it again, I'll look into it some more.

 

Thanks for the info!

[RED333]

Ah, finally something I can help diagnose! This is caused by the slide closing on the case before it clears the ejection port. It usually occurs on the last round of a magazine, because the previous rounds have been "helped" out of the ejection port by the next case. In my 1911 (which did exactly the same thing) it was caused by a clocking (or rotating) extractor; check to make sure your extractor is tightly fit to the firing pin stop. See if you can wiggle it in the channel, and look up youtube videos/internet articles about checking the extractor tension. You may need a new firing pin stop, or a new extractor. This could also just be a case of limp wristing, so just keep an eye on it for a while.

If it continues:

Sometimes adding some tension can help by keeping the extractor from moving around and losing its grip on the case. Be sure not to add too much. Occasionally people mention a recoil spring change (to a lower weight spring) helping fix this, or moving your powder charge up a bit (5.5 of Unique is a pretty mild load. I usually use 5.8 for "target" loads and I have heard that 6.0 under a 230 gr is the "military hardball" duplicate.) Both of these things will cause the slide to cycle a bit faster, causing the ejector to give the case a harder smack, thus helping it clear the ejection port. 

Out of curiosity, what make of 1911 is it?

Anyway, if left unchecked, it may just do it occasionally, or it may get worse. Mine would occasionally stuff the last case back into the magazine causing a pretty righteous jam. New extractor that held tension properly and did not clock fixed it right up, no problems since.

This is about the best explanation on what caused this, good post.

[Guest jkb4c]

Glad I could help!

[JRWnTN]

I agree with jkb4c, it's likely an extractor issue. Next time at the range, load one round from the magazine then remove the magazine. You are more likely to see it again. The problem was corrected with the Performance Center 1911's larger extractor.

[Guest Fruit jar]

Doesn't look a gun issue to me. If just 1 out of 100 or 1,000. No other ramping or battering problems. Whatever it struck when ejected is what I think.

[vujade]

... it's more reason to make a bunch of rounds and test them.  =)

[j2flan]

I have two S&W 1911s , one the 108285, was doing the same thing every now and then, I could not find any S&W extractor issues on the fourms other than the "hook" needed cleaning, and mine looked ok, So I looked elsewhere.

It would make no differance changing the fireing pin stop as it has nothing to do with the extractor, and the extractor can not "clock"

Check the extractor to see if it is binding due to crud and the hook for damage and fouling. If all is good, chances are it ain`t the extractor. 

 

I found my cases were getting crunched because of mag, and or spring issue. I replaced the recoil spring and then found I had a magazine that wasn`t holding the last round. changed that, and no more crunched brass. Good Luck

[Guest jkb4c]

I have two S&W 1911s , one the 108285, was doing the same thing every now and then, I could not find any S&W extractor issues on the fourms other than the "hook" needed cleaning, and mine looked ok, So I looked elsewhere.

It would make no differance changing the fireing pin stop as it has nothing to do with the extractor, and the extractor can not "clock"

Check the extractor to see if it is binding due to crud and the hook for damage and fouling. If all is good, chances are it ain`t the extractor. 

 

I found my cases were getting crunched because of mag, and or spring issue. I replaced the recoil spring and then found I had a magazine that wasn`t holding the last round. changed that, and no more crunched brass. Good Luck

That's true, on an SW1911 the external extractor doesn't lock up with the FPS. On the traditional 1911 design a poorly fit extractor can lead to clocking issues.

 

In any case, still nothing to worry about unless it starts happening often. If it bugs you, purposefully try to reproduce the crunched brass at the range by limp wristing, or loading one round at a time into the mag and firing. You could narrow it down to one problematic magazine, or determine if the mags are good but the gun is out of tune somewhere. 

[frankmako]

A lawnmower? :shrug:

it looks like it was hit by a lawnmower.    did you pickup someones other older range brass?   i got an old 1911 that will bend one side of the brass in some, but not as bad as this and not both sides.