Having problems with converted saiga

[Spots]

I traded for a converted Saiga and it is having problems. The hammer spring keeps slipping off the trigger and its not letting the trigger reset like it should. I had a friend who has converted some over take a look at it. It has a tapco G2 trigger, stock hammer setup. Im not sure why they used a stock hammer on a tapco trigger when the tapco hammer is included? Maybe somebody can explain it to me? There are a couple other things that make me question the guy who converted it. The stock wasn't clearnced to clear a screw, which would have taken 5 seconds with a file. Also the bolt hold open spring wasn't installed correctly. We tore it down, set the bolt hold.open spring in right, and after 5 mags of shells it did the same thing again. Any ideas??

Heres a pic of it slipped off

[gjohnsoniv]

Isn't there a retaining plate that should be there? Or a pin or something like that?

Edited February 22, 2013 by gjohnsoniv

[Spots]

The normal kits come with a shepherds hook. This person used circlips. A retaining plate is also an option. Im gonna switch to a hook or a plate, these circlips are a pain, though I was told that they are ok to use. Just a pain in the butt to install

[reed1285]

is the hammer axis pin staying in like it should? might need to pop that pin out and take the hammer out along with the spring to see what is going on. if you decide to do that take a pair of needle nose pliers and pull the hammer spring arms back behind the hammer and twist tie or zip tie them in place behind the hammer, that way when you know the pin out the hammer and spring assembly dont go flying across the room.

 

from your pic it looks like a faulty hammer spring to me, you might be able to take that hammer spring out and just put a slight outward bend in that arm to keep it pressed up against the trigger arm

Edited February 22, 2013 by reed1285

[Spots]

We pulled it the way down a couple nights ago, thats how we found out the bolt hold open spring was installed incorrectly. I'm going to try tweaking the spring as Ive seen suggested several other places and now here.

[reed1285]

like i said it definitely looks like a spring issue. maybe just a faulty spring, i may have one laying around here from some of my conversions, if i do ill send it your way free of charge.

[Moped]

If that doesn't work, you might want to consider a new trigger group, just to get rid if the problem. 

[Spots]

If that doesn't work, you might want to consider a new trigger group, just to get rid if the problem.

This will be the next thing I do if i can't get it right this weekend

[Dolomite_supafly]

Bend the spring. I have to on mine to keep them in place after the conversion. There is nothing wrong with bending a spring.

There is also nothing wrong with not using a shepards hook. All the shepards hook does better than a spring is make it easier to put together. Once the gun is together there is no difference in how they perform.

The reason they didn't use the Tapco hammer is it causes reliability issues in some guns. I know I have has issues.

Dolomite

[Spots]

Alright I bent the spring, and Ive dumped 4 mags and a drum through it, so far no issues. I'll keep an eye on it, I'm still gonna order up a new spring just in case. I know the circlips wont hurt anything Dolo, it just makes it a pain to pull it down and put it back. Thanks for the explanation on the tapco hammer

[Dolomite_supafly]

Are the circlips you talking about "E" clips?

http://www.teamassociated.com/pictures/products/3214/3214_md.jpg

 

If so they are probably the most secure way to hold the pins in place.

 

Saiga's are generally a work in progress. You will have to address a few issues before it is 100% reliable.

 

Is that a rivet holding the front of the trigger guard on?

 

Dolomite

[Spots]

Not rivets, they are bolts. And yes they are e-clips like that. And I'll take the tweaking under advisement, this is the most fun gun I've ever owned by far.

[Romad7]

I had to bend the spring out too, no problems since.

Get the retaining plate, it has saved me much frustration since I have taken apart my S12 many times and will do it again before I am done with my project. Some people don't mind the shepard's crook or other contraptions but I hate them.

Wait to order it though after looking at all the options for upgrades available so you don't pay $5 to ship a small metal part by itself. Carolina Shooters Supply is the place to go for that.

Does the Bolt Hold Open (BHO) lever have a spring/wire on it, can't see it in the pic?

Have you found the Saiga-12 Forum yet? That's the best place to go for all of this, the simple stuff has probably been asked a lot already and a lot of the advanced stuff (not being snippy with a "do a search" answer just letting you know it's there). I haven't seen a lot of people who have done a lot of work on Saigas here but we are here for you. Edited February 23, 2013 by Romad7

[Dolomite_supafly]

If you still have it in a few weeks we will get together and I will go over it with you.

 

Any problems running low brass, bulk ammo?

 

Dolomite

[Spots]

Yeah there is a spring on the bolt hold open, it was installed wrong when I first got the gun. And no I hadn't found that forum yet, Ill check it out. Thanks man

If you still have it in a few weeks we will get together and I will go over it with you.

Any problems running low brass, bulk ammo?

Dolomite

That'd be cool. And no, it feeds bulk pack 7.5 shot remington just fine. It does stove pipe with the drum when its fully loaded, it'll stove pipe a couple rounds, but it quits doing it as as you shoot it dry, like it wont do it with less than 12 rounds in it, so I think the spring in the drum may be super stiff. I haven't tried high brass through it yet, but I think the extra umph will make it operate fine with the drum.
I also have a question about operating mods if I cut it down to 13.5" and weld a 5" break on it?

[reed1285]

You would have to rework the gas system if you did that, im pretty sure anything less than 14 inches or so the gas system needs to be moved back 2.25" Edited February 23, 2013 by reed1285

[BigK]

I just picked up a Saiga last weekend and I've been reading/watching videos about converting it. Sounds like a good idea, but I kind of like the sporterized configuration. Plus, I'd prolly just screw it up.

[Dolomite_supafly]

You can gun the barrel to ~15", maybe shorter, without having to shorten the gas system. You will have to open the ports up some but it will still be reliable. To help reliability you can also polish the bottom of the bolt, the hammer face and install a lighter hammer spring. Not sure if it is enough to make up the difference in shortening the barrel.

 

Converting a Saiga is easy and it is impossible to screw it up unless you really try to screw it up. Converting it gets rid of the miserable trigger as well as extra "links" in the trigger system that can cause problems. It also allows you to use standard AK parts like stocks and grips.

 

Dolomite

[Spots]

14-15" would be ok. I just want to end up with a gun that is 18" overall with a break, there are plenty of options on different length breaks to get it where I want it. I'm also gonna do a collapsible stock, with a railed forarm and foregrip. Trying to build the smallest most manevaurable shotgun legally possible without a stamp.

[reed1285]

i found this for you spots, a lot of good info on this page

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/38318-sbs-technical-info-thread/

 

i know your not planning to do an sbs, but it still gives you good ideas on barrel length and gas system mods

 

TonyRumore is the brains behind Tromix, scroll down to the second post where the "how short can you go without mods" section is

Edited February 23, 2013 by reed1285

[Dolomite_supafly]

14-15" would be ok. I just want to end up with a gun that is 18" overall with a break, there are plenty of options on different length breaks to get it where I want it. I'm also gonna do a collapsible stock, with a railed forarm and foregrip. Trying to build the smallest most manevaurable shotgun legally possible without a stamp.

If you gun wasn't already converted I would say look at the Kushnapup. Mine is 29" OAL with a 19" barrel. When I get it to its shortest legal configuration it will be 27.5" tip to tip.

 

Dolomite

[Dolomite_supafly]

Also, if you want short you can take a pistol grip shotgun and put whatever length barrel you want on it as long as the OAL is 26". It must have been a gun that was manufactured as a pistol grip from the factory. Because it was not made to be shoulder fired it does not meet the definition of a shotgun so it is a "firearm". And the onyl law regarding "firearms" is it must be 26" OAL.

 

There are several instances where a person put a 14" barrel on their pistol grip shotgun and the ATF approved it because it was 26" long.

 

Dolomite

[Spots]

If you gun wasn't already converted I would say look at the Kushnapup. Mine is 29" OAL with a 19" barrel. When I get it to its shortest legal configuration it will be 27.5" tip to tip.

 

Dolomite

 

I thought about doing what you did and trying to find one unconverted so I could build a Kushnapup. I wanna hear a report on your trigger feel though, I wonder how its gonna feel in the bullpup stock

[Dolomite_supafly]

It is about as long as a standard AK trigger when adjusted correctly but no heavier. The rod he used to connect the two is very sturdy, not your typical bent piece of wire.

 

It is a defensive shotgun so I do not need a lightweight trigger.

 

Dolomite

[Spots]

It is about as long as a standard AK trigger when adjusted correctly but no heavier. The rod he used to connect the two is very sturdy, not your typical bent piece of wire.

 

It is a defensive shotgun so I do not need a lightweight trigger.

 

Dolomite

 

Does it have the same feel as a stock Saiga? I'm really interested in that setup. Also will it run drum mags?