National Guard Lexington, Tn 5 arrested for theft of 800 M4 Magazines

[monkeylizard]

but I have known plenty of supply Sgts say they don't know what to do with" x" item, I am not supposed to have those, go throw these away in your trunk.

 

Very true. I was buddies with a sergeant at the alarm shop at Bitburg AFB in Germany. A few years earlier, that crew was sent off to a cruise missle site to strip it down before turning it over to the German gov't as part of an arms reduction. They had a retina scanner from that place that had zero paperwork. Nobody knew they had it. Nobody knew where it was supposed to go. Any of them were unofficially welcome to it, but what are you going to do with something like that? Eventually someone will ask why you have a multi-million dollar retina scanner protecting your man-cave. When Bitburg closed, I assume it went to the Spangdahlem alarm shop...one more step removed from any paper trail and one step closer to a black market sale, I guess.

[QuietDan]

The NG doesn't fall under the UMCJ.

 

Some states have their own version, but Tennessee does not. 

 

There will be a trial, Court Martial or not, and the questions, which stand, will matter.

[Dolomite_supafly]

In the end a thief is a thief.

 

What the item is, the condition of it or the value of it still doesn't change the fact it was stolen. The actual value might make a difference as far as the charges but it still doesn't change the fact the items were stolen and those that stole it should be held accountable for their actions. Even if the item stolen was worthless it is still a thief that is doing the stealing.

 

Even if the items were slated for destruction they were still stolen before the destruction was complete.

 

Dolomite

[Links2k]

In the end a thief is a thief.
 
What the item is, the condition of it or the value of it still doesn't change the fact it was stolen. The actual value might make a difference as far as the charges but it still doesn't change the fact the items were stolen and those that stole it should be held accountable for their actions. Even if the item stolen was worthless it is still a thief that is doing the stealing.
 
Even if the items were slated for destruction they were still stolen before the destruction was complete.
 
Dolomite

That's how I see it.

[TMF]

Very true. I was buddies with a sergeant at the alarm shop at Bitburg AFB in Germany. A few years earlier, that crew was sent off to a cruise missle site to strip it down before turning it over to the German gov't as part of an arms reduction. They had a retina scanner from that place that had zero paperwork. Nobody knew they had it. Nobody knew where it was supposed to go. Any of them were unofficially welcome to it, but what are you going to do with something like that? Eventually someone will ask why you have a multi-million dollar retina scanner protecting your man-cave. When Bitburg closed, I assume it went to the Spangdahlem alarm shop...one more step removed from any paper trail and one step closer to a black market sale, I guess.

Any PBO can add stuff on to the property book with a little paperwork. We found all kinds of stuff that was later added to the unit property books in garrison and forward.

[Duck]

This is very typical and occurs at about every unit across the country.

[Links2k]

This is very typical and occurs at about every unit across the country.

That may be true, but I'm crazy enough to do something about it when I become aware of it happening. Thieves cost everyone money.

[npgunner]

So is the 100 year old WWII Vintage Colt 1911 with "Government Property" on the slide.

The question remains, what was the condition of the property and the circumstances of it diversion? Were they fresh in the crate coming out of a locked storage area? Where they on some unit's Property Book? Were they found in a torn box behind the dumpster?

It will all matter at the Court Martial. It is a Commander's question, a Prosecution Question, and a Defense Question. It becomes part of the case and can lead to Mitigation and Extenuation.

The circumstances always matter, even in an Army that tries to look at everything in Black and White.

Maybe it's important as a matter of technicality ...
But as a matter of principle these idiots stole property and should be held responsible for their actions.

[JayC]

Wow, that makes me feel so much better... a 38 year old PFC and a cop.  And they placed him on paid leave?  Am I the only one that sees something very wrong with this situation?

 

Walker is a member of the Bells PD, currently on administrative leave, with pay.

 

Should specify that is Johnathan M. Walker that is the Bells PD Officer.

 

[Dolomite_supafly]

Wow, that makes me feel so much better... a 38 year old PFC and a cop.  And they placed him on paid leave?  Am I the only one that sees something very wrong with this situation?

I think they should not be punished, in any way, until they are proven or plead guilty, But when they do then the courts should punish them to the full extent the law allows.

 

Dolomite

[JayC]

No my point is how on earth is a 38 year old a PFC in the National Guard?  It's unlikely he just joined in the last year, so that would indicate he is either a complete screw up, or has already done something serious enough to loose rank over....  Either way not good.

 

I think they should not be punished, in any way, until they are proven or plead guilty, But when they do then the courts should punish them to the full extent the law allows.

 

Dolomite

[Dolomite_supafly]

You can join up to age 35 so being a PFC at 38 is very possible. You just have to be enlisted by your 35th birthday. Also, promotions in the NG are very slow compared to active duty. Being a PFC in the NG at 38 is not an indication they are a screw up. Now being caught up in a theft ring is an indication but until proven guilty they are innocent.

 

Dolomite

Edited February 23, 2013 by Dolomite_supafly

[Patton]

Has it went back to the old standards? The last I heard you could join up to like 44.

[TMF]

Just last year I met a newly minted PFC on AD who was 38 years old with only a year of service.

Considering that there were several others involved in this who all outranked him, I would say that his rank is not an indicator. Edited February 23, 2013 by TMF

[Dolomite_supafly]

Has it went back to the old standards? The last I heard you could join up to like 44.

 

I think that is for active duty. For ARNG you need to have enough time to "retire" when you hit 65.

 

Dolomite

[R1100R]

It's 35 for both AD or AR/NG for non-prior service.

 

As of Apr 2011.

Edited February 23, 2013 by R1100R

[DaveTN]

Wow, that makes me feel so much better... a 38 year old PFC and a cop.  And they placed him on paid leave?  Am I the only one that sees something very wrong with this situation?

He won’t be on paid leave long. The Department or the Chief will have an administrative hearing before taking any action… something about innocent until proven guilty. I know that’s a fairy tale for cops as well as non-cops, but you at least have to maintain appearances.

As a tax payer I would rather they pay him a few weeks pay rather than fire him and then find out he is innocent; resulting in a huge lawsuit.

[JayC]

While promotions above E4 are slow in the NG, promotions up to E4 are automatic once you meet all the requirements.

 

So, lets say best case he joined at 35 years old (3 years ago), he either isn't passing PT tests, is a complete screw up, or was promoted and then lost his rank...  And that is putting this guy in the best possible light, the chances are he's in been for a lot longer than 3 years, which would mean he's an even bigger screw up.

 

I've met NG members who were half his age (19) that are already an E4.

 

You can join up to age 35 so being a PFC at 38 is very possible. You just have to be enlisted by your 35th birthday. Also, promotions in the NG are very slow compared to active duty. Being a PFC in the NG at 38 is not an indication they are a screw up. Now being caught up in a theft ring is an indication but until proven guilty they are innocent.

 

Dolomite

 

[R1100R]

I think that is for active duty. For ARNG you need to have enough time to "retire" when you hit 65.

 

Dolomite

I know thay just found seven E4" s in the Reserve with 20 years and they were automatically retired. A lot will change with this draw down.

 

 I don't know for the Guard but for the Reserve it is age 60 for MRD. And on the enlisted side you have to be E8 or E9 to stay until that age. MRD for others to include officers to O6 is done by rank and age. War time recall from the Retired ranks is a different story to include Medical Doctors.

[Patton]

I know E-4 is a completely different beast but I keep thinking of two E-4's I have met in life. One decided to come back in after being out 25yrs, SPC Miller and he had a huge beer gut. He was a pretty good guy, had the longest ERB you had ever seen in your life to include a Jungle Expert Badge. He would always tell stories you knew were BS but he had actual true stories he would not share. It turned out he was had been a Drill Sgt, he never mentioned it until a division SGM came by to see him and the SGM said Miller was his Drill Sgt.
The other guy, I am so imbarressed that I can't remember his name, but he was one of my brigade commanders who left to come back as a SPC in the same brigade. Edited February 23, 2013 by Patton

[Guest carter]

Wow - a 38 year old PFC!

 

Sounds like a real go-getter!

probably not the only time he's done something stupid lol... 

[enfield]

E-5 comes slowly, if at all, in the reserves (from personal experience), but anybody but a goofball made E-4 out of AIT.

[Owen3544]

You can join up to age 35 so being a PFC at 38 is very possible. You just have to be enlisted by your 35th birthday. Also, promotions in the NG are very slow compared to active duty. Being a PFC in the NG at 38 is not an indication they are a screw up. Now being caught up in a theft ring is an indication but until proven guilty they are innocent.

 

Dolomite

 

I agree with a lot of stuff, but that rank in the NG is slower than active duty is not one of them. It all depends who you know. I joined the active Army in 2009 and just made my E5 in July of 2012. My friend joined 4 months before me and will be promoted to SSG on 1 March, and is significantly overweight. It seems like it is mostly who you know, not what you know in the guard. Not to take anything away from the NG, but there are a lot of "relaxed" standards and promotions in some of the units in TN. I will reiterate "SOME," not all.

[TMF]

Not to take anything away from the NG, but there are a lot of "relaxed" standards and promotions in some of the units in TN.

The hell you say! :)

[wstrnrdr]

All were maintenance, not mp's.  heard 251st deploys in a couple months,  sad no repsect, honor, or sense of duty.