Veterans in danger of losing their rights...

[KaNuckles]

I'm still having a hard time believing what I just read. Talk about a slippery slope. I have mentioned this before. The government is going to use mental health as backdoor gun control. here is evidence. 

 

http://redflagnews.com/headlines/disarming-americas-heros-veterans-receiving-official-letters-prohibiting-them-from-purchasing-possessing-receiving-or-transporting-a-firearm-or-ammunition

[Guest MilitiaMan]

Just one more reason we need to, and eventually will, stand up and push back.

[buck1032]

I just had this conversation with a friend. While the article should be a little alarming, it isnt anything new. That sort of stuff has been coming down the pike since the mid 90's. I was on active duty when I first learned/heard of it. What really concerns me is the ability of the DOD and VA to strip members and veterans rights without due process.

[Raoul]

This is definitely in the works. The VA has hired a bunch of contract shrinks who know nothing about vet's experiences. Questions like "have you ever seen dead people?".

They're in a big hurry to pin a diagnosis on these guys, get them on 4 or 5 different pills to control them, and you know what comes next. Loss of gun ownership rights.

[KaNuckles]

Using vets for practice because they're easy prey?

[RED333]

O yes it is coming, Catch 22, "You have to be Crazy to want a Gun, So you Must be Crazy".

Now if the Vets are said to be crazy, then they will get the benfits they need,

just a shame to go this way to get them.

[Raoul]

O yes it is coming, Catch 22, "You have to be Crazy to want a Gun, So you Must be Crazy".

Now if the Vets are said to be crazy, then they will get the benfits they need,

just a shame to go this way to get them.

 Don't bet on it. I got some retired pals and the VA does all it can to delay or refuse claims.

They'll offer plenty of pills though. Get you hooked then they can control them.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Raoul

[scoutfsu]

 Don't bet on it. I got some retired pals and the VA does all it can to delay or refuse claims.

They'll offer plenty of pills though. Get you hooked then they can control them.

I'll bet on it.  VA counselors and reps push the PTSD crap when you're separating and when you do your VA screening when you're out.  Combined with dirtbag soldiers who lie and play it up so they can get the added benefits, it is very prevalent. 

 

The VA may delay other medical claims or treatments for it's retirees but I can tell you first hand this has been pushed for years now.  There have been rumors about this sort of thing happening.....we're just now seeing the black and white proof.

[tnhawk]

I recently learned that one veteran had his HCP revoked, after receiving VA benefits for PTSD

[scoutfsu]

Severe enough PTSD, I could see maaaaaaybe.  I think there is a line b/w legitimate threat/concern and a blanket decree by the VA/.gov.  I would wager on the latter, unfortunately.

[Independent_shooter]

By this logic, we should declare the general populous crazy for continuing to elect these idiots!

[RobertNashville]

I've had the privilege of hearing the Surgeon General of the National Guard (who happens to be an Air Force officer) speak to the issue of our vets returning home and so very many committing suicide...the son of a friend of mine came home from war and killed himself.

 

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not in any way suggesting that what is in the referenced story is good news or that there isn't the possibility of an ulterior motive behind this. BUT...there is a truly significant problem with our soldiers and sailors coming home and then committing suicide...it's a travesty and I do believe that the military and VA are actually trying to do something about it (and that they need to).

 

All I'm saying is, before we jump on the bandwagon that this is some grand back-door scheme to take guns away from citizens, we need to remember that there is a real problem that needs to be addressed and if someone really is mentally unfit to take care of their own affairs or to own a firearm it's in everybody's best interest that someone steps in.

[scoutfsu]

Where I think we're going to see the disconnect Robert, is when simply having been diagnosed with PTSD will limit all veterans.  The VA will take the easy/ lazy way out and just issue a blanket proclamation rather than treating it on a case by case basis.  It won't just stop with the .mil.  Civilians ID'ed with PTSD will get limited too.  The military PTSD drama/claims are overrated.  There's legit dudes out there that need help.....and then there's mouth breathers sucking in the monthly benefits check.  I witness this every month by a couple people in a sister company.

 

People off themselves every day for a variety of reasons.  It seems service members just catch attention for it.  I'm sick of sitting through the same, stupid video every quarter just to check boxes and talk about our feelings when we could be out training.

 

I'm not a tin foil guy at all........but I've seen this one coming for years.  What its going to do is discourage those people that actually need help from getting it.

[TMF]

I'll bet on it.  VA counselors and reps push the PTSD crap when you're separating and when you do your VA screening when you're out.  Combined with dirtbag soldiers who lie and play it up so they can get the added benefits, it is very prevalent. 
 

Yep, I practically had to argue with the rep doing my VA paperwork on why I'm not claiming PTSD. Made me wonder about all the people they hit up on the way out who see that as free money and the closest they got to combat was having an indirect round impact near their FOB.

[diablo982]

This topic was covered a few months ago. Having PTSD is not disqualifying for possessing a firearm. Receiving VA disability benefits for a mental disorder, and being so messed up that you can't manage your money is the basis for limiting your rights to own a gun. A fiduciary is seldom appointed in VA claims situations, and a psychiatrist makes the determination the vet is so mentally unstable they wouldn't know what to do with their VA check when it arrived. Do you really want those people to have guns? If they want their gun rights restored, stop getting VA benefits. In the old post, many argued it was unfair to mentally ill vets to have their gun rights stripped. While I acknowledged there was a chance an "innocent" vet might be caught up in a bureaucratic mistake, the risk was worth it. I countered that mentally ill people commit the mass shootings, and that was our greatest threat to gun rights. The Sandy Hook shooting happened a few weeks later.

[Spots]

Yep, I practically had to argue with the rep doing my VA paperwork on why I'm not claiming PTSD. Made me wonder about all the people they hit up on the way out who see that as free money and the closest they got to combat was having an indirect round impact near their FOB.

They tried to talk me into the PTSD crap also. Its like they want you to claim it. Yeah, no thanks. I have no reason to ptsd

[scoutfsu]

Yep, I practically had to argue with the rep doing my VA paperwork on why I'm not claiming PTSD. Made me wonder about all the people they hit up on the way out who see that as free money and the closest they got to combat was having an indirect round impact near their FOB.

Brother, they did the same with me. 

 

My distaste with the whole process is I've seen it abused first hand and heard the second hand stories.  I know there are people out there with legit cases of it and they deserve the help they need....but I've seen it abused more than anything.  Guys see that monthly VA payment and they want a piece.  I always wondered if the VA would come down with what they're doing.  Like I said, I'm not a tin foil guy but this has always worried me.

[Wheelgunner]

The whole damn system is broken.  

 

The military branches shouldn't have put dirtbags in important advisory positions.  As things stand, every single service member who separates has to sit through a briefing about how to dupe the system and fraudulently obtain disability benefits.  

 

Additionally, the individuals going through the separation process should have enough moral strength to refuse to compromise their integrity for a monthly disability check.  

 

Finally, we need to thoroughly revamp the evaluation process that results in a PTSD diagnosis.  It makes my blood boil to think how many veterans we have now who simply claim PTSD because it's so easy to do.  I'm not saying we should deny treatment to guys who are truly suffering.  But if it took years of psychiatric treatment, counseling, and documented bureaucracy before being formally, permanently diagnosed with PTSD, I have to assume that very few dirtbags would go to all that trouble just to fake a disability and get paid.

[scoutfsu]

 But if it took years of psychiatric treatment, counseling, and documented bureaucracy before being formally, permanently diagnosed with PTSD, I have to assume that very few dirtbags would go to all that trouble just to fake a disability and get paid.

 

The problem with this is that guys who need help will drop out of the process too.  It shouldn't be freely handed out but the process shouldn't be so onerous as to discourage claimants. 

[RobertNashville]

I think what we all struggle with is that we know, intuitively, that someone who truly has significant mental health issues, whether they are recent veterans returning from war or just ordinary civilians, should not have access to firearms; the problem is "WHO" makes that determination and can we trust that it will be done honestly and impartially/fairly.

 

Many of us simply don't trust "government" with that kind of power but at the same time, somebody has to do it and power can corrupt anyone.  It's the proverbial rock and a hard place.

[tnhawk]

There should be a hearing to examine the actual condition of the individual veteran before revoking his permit, not simply an administrative task.

[jaysouth]

This is old news.  Nothing has changed in decades.  The VA can declare you incompetent for physical or mental grounds and that threshhold is waaaay above PTSD.  

 

The author of this article is trying to manufacture something sensational to sell his rag.  You have to border on a vegetatative state to be declared incompetent.  A veteran awarded 100% disability on a permanent and total basis is not close to being denied any civil rights.

[Guest Dragonman]

Rate of returning soldiers doing themselves in currently stands at 22 per day and the military has been catchng much flak for the alarmingly high rate. I would think they're trying to do something about it but somebody needs to point to the Canadas failed firearms ban and pointing out that one of the reasons they claimed a need for it was to decrease the number of suicides. Several years of the ban being in place has shown no decrease in the rate only that the people resorted to other means.

[scoutfsu]

22 Soldiers a day from redeploying units?  You have a firm source for that stat?  Because I'm calling BS.  That's no where close to reality.....as a matter of fact, in the entire military last year you're looking at 349.

 

Its a big military.   People kill themselves for a variety of reasons.  Same with the rest of America.  According to NIMH, you're looking at 11 out of 100k.  Eleven out of One Hundred Thousand. 

 

I'd argue that the suicide hype is just that - a lot of hype.  Is it a problem?  Sure, just like murder and texting while driving are problems.  Media and politicians are blowing it out of proportion.....and the question is why?  One answer could be they want to take guns away from the people that use(d) them...

Edited February 27, 2013 by scoutfsu

[JRWnTN]

This is old news.  Nothing has changed in decades.  The VA can declare you incompetent for physical or mental grounds and that threshhold is waaaay above PTSD.  

 

The author of this article is trying to manufacture something sensational to sell his rag.  You have to border on a vegetatative state to be declared incompetent.  A veteran awarded 100% disability on a permanent and total basis is not close to being denied any civil rights.

Are you saying that someone might try to misstate facts and ignore the law on some issue, just to make money?  I'm shocked. 

 

I heard a radio show where the host claimed that a disability for a back injury would cause a vet to lose his gun rights.  I turned it off, because if the host was that stupid, nothing else he would have to say is worthy of belief.