Thinking about Starting up my own Members Only Shooting Range

[PackinMama]

Well, I've been thinking.....and I've come up with an idea that I think would help a lot of folks out in my neck of the woods that don't have a good place to go shoot.

I'd like to run it past you guys and get your thoughts, opinions, and suggestions.

 

I have 35 acres of property here in Cocke County, about halfway between Morristown and Newport. The only place I know of to go shoot, besides here, is out in Greene County at Bubbling Springs Shooting Range in the Cherokee National Forest. That's a good drive if you live in Morristown, Jefferson City, White Pine, etc.  I already have my own little range beside the house where I shoot with stands at 25, 50, 75, 100, and 125 yards. With about a half day of dozer work, I could easily get out to 175 yards, and possibly 200 with the stopping point being a natural and very high hillside.

 

I'm thinking of doing the dozer work, putting some shooting benches in, and opening my range up to a limited number of "members only" shooters. However, I need to do a little research and get the following questions answered before I do anything:

 

1. What are the legal aspects and considerations of having a private members only shooting range on my property? Would having everyone sign some kind of release that says that I am not liable for any injuries or damages incurred while on my property be enough? Or would I need to purchase extra liability insurance? What if someone brought in something illegal like a stolen gun, or a full auto, etc.?

 

2. Would my neighbors be able to protest or take any kind of legal action against me?

 

3. Would the income generated from membership dues be taxable income?

 

4. Would I need any kind of license?

 

5. What would be a reasonable amount to charge for a six month or one year membership?

 

6. How many people do you think I should let join? I wouldn't want the range to get too crowded at once.....  I was thinking 15-20 at most......

 

Those are the big questions that come to mind at first. I'm sure I'll think of some more as I get further along with this idea. So what do you think? I've had my own place to shoot for 20 years, so I'm not familiar with going to ranges at all and I really don't even know what it costs.  Any input, ideas, suggestions, advice, etc. would be greatly appreciated!

Edited February 21, 2013 by PackinMama

[10-Ring]

I can't answer all of your questions but may be able to help a little bit.  My first question would concern your intent.  Are you simply trying to provide a few responsible people with a place to shoot or is this a money making venture?  Either way I would incorporate into an LLC in order to separate this venture from your personal assets.  In the event that you are ever sued all they come after are the assets of the corporation, which you would keep minimal.  If you are simply trying to provide a range for a few people to use and are not out to make a profit I think that you could set it up as a non-profit and put the dues back into the range in order to maintain it.  If you are doing it for profit then you will certainly have to pay taxes on dues if you want to stay on the up and up, and I assume that you are if you are asking that question in the first place. 

 

I would have an attorney draw up a liability release that everyone must sign before entering the range area.  This would also be a good person to ask about liabilities concerning illegal guns on the range.

 

As far as your neighbors go if you are in an unrestricted area there is probably not much that they can do.  How many people would be affected and how are they likely to react?  Remember you are the one that has to live next door to them if you piss them off.

 

I recently had to move and no longer have my own range anymore, I wish you were closer.  I'm cheap but I would be willing to pay $100 per year without thinking much about it.  I'm sure others would easily be willing to pay more. 

 

I'm thinking that this is a venture that ultimately would not make a whole lot of money.  I think building a range is something you do more for the love of the hobby.  If that is your motive you might be able to create a nice little "gun club" consisting of like minded individuals, might not make a whole lot of money but it could be a great life experience.

[Spots]

I only really have one thing I can comment on. ORSA is $120 a year, if I remember right. They have several different ranges, including a 1k yard range. Most little outdoor ranges are cheap, that is their draw. I can;t imagine paying more than $30-$40 a year to shoot out to 200 yds, but I'm in the same situation where I have a lot of my own land to shoot on, so take that with a grain of salt

[Lumber_Jack]

If its not already put it in Greenbelt Tax plan. It will cut your property taxes and maybe help free up some money for this venture.

[PackinMama]

I can't answer all of your questions but may be able to help a little bit.  My first question would concern your intent.  Are you simply trying to provide a few responsible people with a place to shoot or is this a money making venture?  Either way I would incorporate into an LLC in order to separate this venture from your personal assets.  In the event that you are ever sued all they come after are the assets of the corporation, which you would keep minimal.  If you are simply trying to provide a range for a few people to use and are not out to make a profit I think that you could set it up as a non-profit and put the dues back into the range in order to maintain it.  If you are doing it for profit then you will certainly have to pay taxes on dues if you want to stay on the up and up, and I assume that you are if you are asking that question in the first place. 

I'm not looking to make a lot of money, but I definitely wouldn't do it for free either. I do enjoy talking to like minded people, and I think it would be a lot of fun. If I make it a non-profit, could I pay myself for upkeep of the range?

I would have an attorney draw up a liability release that everyone must sign before entering the range area.  This would also be a good person to ask about liabilities concerning illegal guns on the range.

Absolutely would do this.

As far as your neighbors go if you are in an unrestricted area there is probably not much that they can do.  How many people would be affected and how are they likely to react?  Remember you are the one that has to live next door to them if you piss them off.

I am in an unrestricted area. I only have one neighbor that I think it may upset but she's gone most of the day.

I recently had to move and no longer have my own range anymore, I wish you were closer.  I'm cheap but I would be willing to pay $100 per year without thinking much about it.  I'm sure others would easily be willing to pay more. 

 

I'm thinking that this is a venture that ultimately would not make a whole lot of money.  I think building a range is something you do more for the love of the hobby.  If that is your motive you might be able to create a nice little "gun club" consisting of like minded individuals, might not make a whole lot of money but it could be a great life experience.

I was actually thinking $200 per year. I'll have to check around and see what other places are charging. 20+ years ago, I used to pay $20 to shoot for one day at the outdoor range. If someone likes to shoot more than 10 times a year, I think $200 would be a good value. If you shoot only twice a month, that would be about $8 per range day.

 

I agree that it would be a great experience. It's something that I've always thought about doing. I could even make a seperate pistol range over to the side of the rifle range.

Edited February 21, 2013 by PackinMama

[Spots]

You may not get many members at $200 a year. I may be wrong, but like I said earlier, ORSA is $120 a year for 850 acres, 7 ranges, and all kinds of shooting from 1k yard high power, to archery, to plinking, to pistol, etc etc. If this is something you want to do, and aren't worried about becoming a millionaire, I'd look at about $50 a year. Remember if you charge, you have to set dates you'll be open, and stick to them. If I paid $50 a year to shoot, and you weren't open on Saturdays when I made that drive, I would be very upset.

[PackinMama]

If this does get further than an idea, I'd have it open 6 days a week from 9-5, and closed on Wednesdays.

[RobertY]

I live to far from you to consider being a member. But I second the $50.00 a year price point. That is how much I pay for our local outdoor range that is run by the FOP. Granted it is nothing fancy, just has a few tables to set your gear on and places to put up your targets. Also a few picnic tables across the creek. Thats about it. I need to renew now that I think about it. :)

[TripleDigitRide]

I'm a member at a private club with a 300 yard range, and the membership is $50 a year. I think Charlie Hafner range is similarly priced. For a 200 yard or less range, $250 may be pushing it. But hey, people are paying far more than that for a yearly membership at boring indoor ranges. Then again, they can comfortably shoot all year long.

I would definitely attempt to separate your personal assets for the range. Even if you have someone sign a waiver, nothing prevents them or family members from suing you anyway. It doesn't take long for attorney fees to add up, especially if someone is seriously hurt or killed.

[npgunner]

Just an idea ... contact someone that has a similar set-up, but not in your area, and ask them about the experience they've had.  Even though your stated purpose isn't to make a whole lot of money, potential "competitors" in your area may be reluctant to give you great advice.  From what you describe, somewhere like Walden's range outside of Murfreesboro may be similar.  I've always enjoyed shooting there, but dont' know the guy (actually never met him), so not sure how helpful he will/won't be.  This way, you're getting first-hand advice about some of the other things you may not have thought about (i.e., garbage accumulating on the range, expectations of people that come to shoot at your range, etc.).  Since you want it to be member's only, I imagine you'd have to have some sort of established qualifications to be a member (to avoid any perceived since of discrimination).  

 

And as far as my 2 cents go, I don't have regular access to a range where I can shoot anything much longer than 75 yards, so I wouldn't mind pony-ing up a bit of cash for shooting rights, but I wouldn't imagine much more than $100-$125.  Also, keep in mind, that I live nowhere near East, TN so my idea of pricing, and what your local area can support, may be entirely off base.  :shrug:

[jimmydeuce]

Wish I had some good advise to give you but I don't. With the lack of places to shoot around the Morristown area, I think it could work. I'd love to have someplace closer than Bubbling Springs. I think limiting the number of members would be the way to go, especially starting out. $200/year might keep some people from even being interested though. That could be a good thing or could be a bad thing. If you do move forward with it I'd definitely be interested in being a member. If there's anything I could do to help just let me know.

Edited February 21, 2013 by jimmydeuce

[Bad_Bowtie]

I dont have much in the way of advice, but being from Newport I would definatly be interested. Or helping out in anyway if possible.

[Jonnin]

Well, I've been thinking.....and I've come up with an idea that I think would help a lot of folks out in my neck of the woods that don't have a good place to go shoot.

I'd like to run it past you guys and get your thoughts, opinions, and suggestions.

 

I have 35 acres of property here in Cocke County, about halfway between Morristown and Newport. The only place I know of to go shoot, besides here, is out in Greene County at Bubbling Springs Shooting Range in the Cherokee National Forest. That's a good drive if you live in Morristown, Jefferson City, White Pine, etc.  I already have my own little range beside the house where I shoot with stands at 25, 50, 75, 100, and 125 yards. With about a half day of dozer work, I could easily get out to 175 yards, and possibly 200 with the stopping point being a natural and very high hillside.

 

I'm thinking of doing the dozer work, putting some shooting benches in, and opening my range up to a limited number of "members only" shooters. However, I need to do a little research and get the following questions answered before I do anything:

 

1. What are the legal aspects and considerations of having a private members only shooting range on my property? Would having everyone sign some kind of release that says that I am not liable for any injuries or damages incurred while on my property be enough? Or would I need to purchase extra liability insurance? What if someone brought in something illegal like a stolen gun, or a full auto, etc.?

 

2. Would my neighbors be able to protest or take any kind of legal action against me?

 

3. Would the income generated from membership dues be taxable income?

 

4. Would I need any kind of license?

 

5. What would be a reasonable amount to charge for a six month or one year membership?

 

6. How many people do you think I should let join? I wouldn't want the range to get too crowded at once.....  I was thinking 15-20 at most......

 

Those are the big questions that come to mind at first. I'm sure I'll think of some more as I get further along with this idea. So what do you think? I've had my own place to shoot for 20 years, so I'm not familiar with going to ranges at all and I really don't even know what it costs.  Any input, ideas, suggestions, advice, etc. would be greatly appreciated!

 

You need professionals here.  As in, a lawyer.  You may need a business liscence.  Taxes, you will owe them.

if your are zoned residence and run a business, neighbors may have grounds to complain about traffic and noise etc.  Neighbors who shoot might agree to tolerate it in exchange for a free membership.

 

 

 

5) depends on what you offer.  Probably in the 100 for 6 months range roughly.  As others pointed out, that would be high in some areas.  I think it is higher here because the city no-shoot rules mean the ranges here are commercial and more pricy in general.

 

6) depends on the people, your facility, your hours, etc.  Guest rules?  This is something that is more about the people than any sort of equation you can cook up on the fly.  Take me for instance: I shoot 3, 4 times a week when ammo is available.   If you had 5 stalls and I joined your club, you would have 3 stalls for other people cause I would have my wife with me too.....   if my mom joined, you would still have 5 stalls because she goes like 1 or 2 times a year. 

Edited February 21, 2013 by Jonnin

[peejman]

You might think of structuring it more like a club, rather than a business.  You would allow the club use of your property (like a $1/yr lease or something?).  Club dues would be used for maintenance, improvements, etc.  I haven't a clue about the tax or legal obligations.  Dad is a former president of a craftsman's club.  I could ask and see what he knows about how all that works.  Regardless, I'd definitely talk with a lawyer and get some sort of umbrella liability policy.

 

I'd also agree with the $50-ish price point. 

[xRUSTYx]

Maybe its just me ...

 

But I would not want a range next to my house (or relatively even close).  Perhaps I'm a bit more of a private person -- even being a "private club" -- just wouldn't sit well with me.

 

Now, if I had acreage separate from my private acreage -- I'd probably be more open to it :)

 

My best suggestion - Find a lawyer that knows their stuff.  Outside of separating personal vs business assets (that's a given), you need to have a CPA/Lawyer research "For Profit" and "Not For Profit" ... Have an insurance agent research policies that would cover what you plan to do.

 

Your Team Should Consist Of:

1)  Lawyer

2)  CPA

3)  Insurance Agent

4)  Young backs :)

[RED333]

I would not set up a range, asking for trouble.

You just dont know who will show up, yes you did say members

only, but things happen.

At my place I can have a few friends over do some shooting, have a cook out and everyone is happy.

My single lane is for only 1 to shoot at a time, keeps thing safe, the way we like it.

I used to be a member at Galatin Gun Club, nice range, less than 100 dollars a year.

[TSprint1]

If you are even considering going Non Profit I would recommend that you talk to/engage a lawyer that has extensive Non Profit experience.  I have sat on a couple of Non Profit boards and there are a lot of pitfalls that you need to steer clear of. Ass-ume nothing where Non Profits are concerned. :pleased:

[TripleDigitRide]

I would not set up a range, asking for trouble.
You just dont know who will show up, yes you did say members
only, but things happen.
At my place I can have a few friends over do some shooting, have a cook out and everyone is happy.
My single lane is for only 1 to shoot at a time, keeps thing safe, the way we like it.
I used to be a member at Galatin Gun Club, nice range, less than 100 dollars a year.

Gallatin Gun Club is $50 a year.

[mikegideon]

Gallatin Gun Club is $50 a year.

 

I'm a member there too. Wasn't it a lot bigger when you first sign up, and the $50/yr after that? I think Gallatin has 1000 members right now, right?

[RED333]

Yes 50 is right, and 1000 members is what I heard.

The reason I left is it got so busy at the range, Cold

long time, HOT for a short time.

I would have to take off work just to go and shoot

and have the range HOT for a good long time.

About the nicest range I have been to.

[johnwilliams5721]

I have considered doing something similar in my area. I was pointed to the NRA Range Source Book as a good starting point. I had many of the same questions you have. The book answered some for me and opened up plenty new questions. For some questions it simply pointed out who could answer for my locality. The book is available in dead tree and CD formats. I opted for the CD because it's cheaper, and I can search a PDF automatically.

http://rangeservices.nra.org/sourcebook.aspx

[PackinMama]

There's definitely a lot to think about here and I appreciate everyone's input. I'm used to Bubbling Springs shooting range, which consists of three shooting benches and target stands out to 150 yards, unsupervised. That's kinda more what I was thinking about, except with target stands out to 200 yards. Members would mainly consist of people I know personally and on this forum.  Liability is going to be my biggest obstacle I think. I had a member here pm me that is president of a shooting range and he informed me that the insurance would not be cheap. I will talk to my attorney and my insurance agent, but I'm afraid that this idea of mine is probably not going to happen based on what I've learned so far.

Edited February 22, 2013 by PackinMama

[Motasyco]

As is all too often the case these days, red tape trumps good intentions.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Motasyco

[cflatt]

http://chmr.us/CHMR/Home.html

 

Charlie's mobile # is on the site. I am betting you could give him a call and he would be more than happy to tell you how he makes it work. His price is 60/year per family, 5/day per adult guest, minors shoot free when accompanied by a member.

 

Super nice guy and easy to talk to.