dangers from new shooters/reloaders.

[vujade]

I said this in another forum.  I'm curious about what you all think.

 

I was my local range the other week.  It was more crowded than normal.  I saw at least 2 instances of folks with their finger on the trigger, 1 instance of a muzzle flash (that I saw) and once when I was picking up pistol cases during a clear, a bullet whized by my head.  A whole lot of us yelled at the kid in the tight pants playing with his new $800 sig and all he could say  was, "ops, sorry man." 

 

If a skateboarder breaks a leg.  No big deal.  If a football player gets a concussion, ok, maybe it gets on the news if he's good. 

 

I've been crossing my fingers and happy that the media doesn't know about reloading.  What happens when a newbie (or someone smart but just went too fast/careless) double charges a round, blows his gun apart and the shrapnel hits a kid shooting next to him?  What happens when someone at the range decides to do a cowboy move and spin his revolver around and shoots himself? 

 

I bet that will make it to the news.  And soon the liberals will get wind that we can make a round and put a FMJ (ecck!  those are what the military use!?) or a Lead bullet (oh my, isn't that toxic?! They want to shoot bald eagles and kill them with lead poisoning!) , etc. etc. 

 

The more people engage in something, the higher percentage that you'll get an idiot in there.  (or someone smart that just makes an honest mistake).

 

Don't get me wrong.  I'm really happy that more and more folks are getting guns and into it.  It'll help our cause later when they see the light and vote accordingly.  I'm just worried about the (imho) inevitable. 

 

To quote Obama =)  "It's arithmetic."

 

Anyone else concerned about this?

Edited February 21, 2013 by vujade

[RED333]

It is scary, new shooters will need help as well new re-loaders.

We have to step up and make things as safe as we can.

I dont get to a range much, I can shoot on the back yard.

We treat it just like a range, it is not big enough for more than one at a time to shoot,

but CLEAR and HOT are words we use a LOT.

[DMark]

Yup, my concern also as posted here. 

 

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/58056-safety-and-the-new-gun-owner/

[bikertrash2001]

I would like to chime in a say I am a new re-loader but I'm doing for the fun of it and not just build a stock pile. With that enthusiasm, I've read, watched and taken in just about everything I could before I popped out my first spent primer. I check every case for a double charge and measure and put each in a case gauge. 

 

I'm saying this for 2 reasons. Maybe to put you mind at ease that some noobs are really taking this seriously. Also, please don't immediately discount all noobs and help where you see a chance.

[Jonnin]

Its just a fact of life in my opinion.   The era of a gun in the home with a present, caring father who taught the kids simple safety are gone.  We need education, and while every gun sold has the papers with rules of safety and links to the NRA site and more, no one bothers to read it, or if they do, they do not follow the rules. 

 

What we do today is on par with letting folks get a universal driver's liscense (lets say for cars, 18 wheelers, bikes, etc) by signing off on a sheet of paper promising to obey the laws.   People who have never held a gun before are buying them as adults and get no training and little in the way of education.   This is going to cause a lot of accidents and incidents, period.   

 

My thoughs on it are that it should be taught in highschool, to both genders, in all schools.  Nothing fancy here, just the 4 rules of safety and some good background on what NOT to do.  

 

On top of that, I hope that instead of running away from these people, that we can man up and quietly, in a friendly way, TRY to reach out to them.  Don't be confrontational (really, there are a few people that will shoot you for being a jerk).  Don't have a hissy fit (counter productive).  Talk guns for a min, try being friendly even if you want to strangle the person.  Then move into safety, and try to somehow explain the rules.  If the person is unwilling to listen, and some will be, there isnt much to be done there unfortunately, but its worth 5 min to try.   Keep it simple, its not an action shooting match.  If you can get them to keep the finger off the trigger and point it generally in the direction of downrange, as well as being aware of cold range calls, its a big, big start.

 

Running from the range is perhaps wise, but it does not help anyone, it just changes out one victim (YOU) for someone who was less aware of the problems (some other new guy who was not watching the other shooters).  

 

 

reloading --- is not a noob issue.  Experienced reloaders make mistakes, get complacent and careless, start watching TV while they handle explosives, etc.   I think that is the biggest danger: growing careless due to feelign experienced about it, missing a detail and boom.  

Edited February 21, 2013 by Jonnin

[itchytriggerfinger]

...

 

reloading --- is not a noob issue.  Experienced reloaders make mistakes, get complacent and careless, start watching TV while they handle explosives, etc.   I think that is the biggest danger: growing careless due to feelign experienced about it, missing a detail and boom.

 

I'm not saying reloading accidents don't happen, but I'm more worried about the noob with a gun and box of factory ammo at the shooting line.

[billyscott]

I've been to a few ranges and I don't recall ever seeing a list of the Range Rules posted or handed out to the shooters. 

Anybody here know of a good source for the rules and etiquette of the range? I'd like to print out a few copies. 

[Jonnin]

I've been to a few ranges and I don't recall ever seeing a list of the Range Rules posted or handed out to the shooters. 

Anybody here know of a good source for the rules and etiquette of the range? I'd like to print out a few copies. 

each range should have its own. 

 

You can search the web for typical stuff ---- you get things like

no horse play

eyes & ears at all times

no drawing from holsters

no XYZ (no birshot on the backstop, no slugs here, no full auto here, etc)

safety stuff (keep it downrange, guns do not move people move if want to shoot someone elses gun)

no reloads (mostly indoor ranges)

don't shoot the target frames

don't shoot trash (glass bottles, etc)

---- this stuff can go on for 40 pages or it can be a 1 page document of basics.

 

A totally random example

http://www.issaquahsportsmensclub.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=64&Itemid=66

 

You can see why they are unique to each range --- most ranges would NOT limit you to 10 rounds and some are not as unfriendly to CCW guns, some are.  Some ranges allow rapid fire, this one does not.  Many do not have a safety officer at all.  Etc.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Jonnin

[Guest kj4gxu]

as a new shooter I can say I absolutely agree with this.  I purchased my first handgun a few weeks ago.  Before doing so I spent some time brushing up on gun safety since I hadn't handled anything more powerful than a bb gun since boy scouts.

before purchasing the gun the wife and I sat down with the kids and discussed gun safety.  

We then took a trip to a local range where we thought we'd be able to get some more advice and perhaps rent a .22 pistol to get the feel of shooting.  We were given about 30 seconds of the basic operation of the pistol and sent on our way to the firing line.  

When we approached the firing line I told the RSO that it was our first time shooting, he pointed us to a position and told us "You'll do fine"

 

I walked the kids through things to the best of my ability but hey, I'm a newbie myself so I felt like I might be missing something.

We made a second trip to the range 2 weeks later and rented a ruger pistol in .40 s&w.  This time the RSO was an older gentleman who was very interested in discussing safety and was very attentive to everyone on the range.  I felt much better about that one.

 

We finally purchased a pistol (Ruger p95) a few weeks ago and before it ever had a round in it the kids, the wife and I sat down and went over the gun stem to stern.  We discussed the function of the weapon, how to clear the weapon and check it it is loaded, how to load the weapon, how to field strip it and again we talked about general gun safety.

 

Finally we were ready to shoot and luckily a friend of mine is a special forces W/O.  We went and visited him and he was kind enough to walk us again through some of the basics of handgun safety and give us some tips to help improve our accuracy.

 

I guess the point here is that had i not actively sought out safety information I could have easily purchased or rented a gun with 0 understanding of safety, walked onto the range and been the cause of a catastrophe.  

[Cartel]

I was my local range the other week. 

 

Which range do you speak of?

Edited February 21, 2013 by Cartel

[vujade]

guys. I re-read my first post here.  I hope I didn't sound like a jerk.  If I did, I apologize.  I'll add that I'm no veteran here.  I've only been shooting since we moved here a 7 or so years ago.   I only started to reload a few months ago.

 

I totally love it that we are getting more folks joining the club.  I've mentioned it in this forum before that I get worried when I go to gunshows/stores and 95% of the folks there are 'older white males'.  We need young blood so that this freedom will continue to be enjoyed and exercised. 

 

I started this thread ONLY to bring some it up that in ANY sport, the more folks who are into it, the more folks will get hurt, do something stupid, do something by accident.  The difference here is 1 accident lands on every news broadcast out there and threatens an amendment.   And it's just a numbers thing.  The more folks get into this, the more accidents will happen (and lives protected/saved but that doesn't make the news as much as when something bad happens). 

 

There have already been some great comments.  We do (as more seasoned gun owners) need to step it up and offer to be mentors.  We all need to be range safety officers and just be more vigilant.  And I hope every gun owners shows responsibility (old and new). 

[vujade]

as a new shooter I can say I absolutely agree with this.  I purchased my first handgun a few weeks ago.  Before doing so I spent some time brushing up on gun safety since I hadn't handled anything more powerful than a bb gun since boy scouts.

before purchasing the gun the wife and I sat down with the kids and discussed gun safety.  

We then took a trip to a local range where we thought we'd be able to get some more advice and perhaps rent a .22 pistol to get the feel of shooting.  We were given about 30 seconds of the basic operation of the pistol and sent on our way to the firing line.  

When we approached the firing line I told the RSO that it was our first time shooting, he pointed us to a position and told us "You'll do fine"

 

I walked the kids through things to the best of my ability but hey, I'm a newbie myself so I felt like I might be missing something.

We made a second trip to the range 2 weeks later and rented a ruger pistol in .40 s&w.  This time the RSO was an older gentleman who was very interested in discussing safety and was very attentive to everyone on the range.  I felt much better about that one.

 

We finally purchased a pistol (Ruger p95) a few weeks ago and before it ever had a round in it the kids, the wife and I sat down and went over the gun stem to stern.  We discussed the function of the weapon, how to clear the weapon and check it it is loaded, how to load the weapon, how to field strip it and again we talked about general gun safety.

 

Finally we were ready to shoot and luckily a friend of mine is a special forces W/O.  We went and visited him and he was kind enough to walk us again through some of the basics of handgun safety and give us some tips to help improve our accuracy.

 

I guess the point here is that had i not actively sought out safety information I could have easily purchased or rented a gun with 0 understanding of safety, walked onto the range and been the cause of a catastrophe.  

 

 

I really like your post.  This brings back a lot of memories when I first started.  Luckily, I had a great mentor and I felt really comfortable shooting.  What really helped (and what I do with newbies now) is totally field strip the gun.  When I saw how the little parts moved inside, it de-mystified the gun and when you understand it, you fear it less.  (and respect it more).

 

But I remember going to the the range by myself the first times.  I made a mistake put my finger even when I wasn't ready to fire.  The gun was pointed in the safe direction the whole time but it surprised me and that cemented keeping your finger off the trigger at all times.  I've been good since but I'll always be careful.

 

That's the thing:  These are simple devices BUT when you're new, they can be complicated and intimidating.  (that's why I totally frown on the newbie practice of putting a big 44 magnum or to a newbie's hands.  You're not doing anything nice but giving them a flinch and it's not funny when they hit themselves from the recoil).

 

I totally commend you and your post is a great example of how I hope every new person is when they get into this sport/hobby/activity.  Respect it.  even fear it a little.  Your post also demonstrates how us 'veterans' can think it's easy when it may not be the first few times.

[vujade]

My thoughs on it are that it should be taught in highschool, to both
genders, in all schools.  Nothing fancy here, just the 4 rules of safety
and some good background on what NOT to do.  

 

On top of that, I hope that instead of running away from these
people, that we can man up and quietly, in a friendly way, TRY to reach
out to them.  Don't be confrontational (really, there are a few people
that will shoot you for being a jerk).  Don't have a hissy fit (counter
productive).  Talk guns for a min, try being friendly even if you want
to strangle the person.  Then move into safety, and try to somehow
explain the rules.  If the person is unwilling to listen, and some will
be, there isnt much to be done there unfortunately, but its worth 5 min
to try.   Keep it simple, its not an action shooting match.  If you can
get them to keep the finger off the trigger and point it generally in
the direction of downrange, as well as being aware of cold range calls,
its a big, big start.

 

Great comments! 

[vujade]

One thing I like to do is always take a few appleseed targets with me and hand them out at the range and then encourage them to take a class.  I'm thinking of printing out just some other regular targets (i'm almost out of the appleseed redcoat targets) and on the bottom, have a link to some of my favorite websites which includes the safety rules/etc. 

 

This thread got me into thinking about this - I'm going to be more social at the range.  Seek out folks and say hello, what are you shooting.  Make friends especially if they look new.   I know I still appreciate it when folks walk to me and admire my rifle or talk gun with me. 

 

I think we can do this in stores also.  I feel bad now... i was at the gunstore and some kid was telling a young lady and her old mother r which gun to buy.  I knew it was bad advice (an engraved/fancy 2 shot derringer for self defense?! I don't know how many times they said the word 'cute' during the transaction)  but I kept my mouth shut.  I wish I jumped in nicely and gave them some better advice and offer to take them to the range.

[Spiffy]

The teenage drivers of the gun world.

[jphillips63]

It's not just new shooters/reloaders many years ago I was at a local range and with an all clear a couple of us was down range changing out targets when boom an old timer had fired his rifle down range at a target near the both of us. This hadn't been the first time I was told this gentleman had done that. Needless to say I don't visit that range any longer and that's why I bought property and built my own range. Just because there's an all clear still don't make any of us safe when down range. That's one day I will never forget.

[Jason in TN]

I do not go to public ranges any more. Have seen people do dumb things at them to many times. It is amazing you don't here people injured or shot at them more often than you do. Find a friend with lots of land and help him build a private range. Shot a 50bmg at my buddies earlier this week.

[MarkInNashville]

People do dumb things all the time. I generally go to a range that is fully controlled or one that has no one there!

[BigK]

As part of the shooting community, I feel like it's more my responsibility than the safety officers (if there are any) to watch my six. They are there to keep the range safe, so every second they spend helping a new shooter is a second someone just as inexperienced isn't being supervised properly.

I'm not trying to be mean, but beginners should take responsibility for their own education instead of expecting the facility where they shoot to instruct them. There are classes they can pay for, free books at the library, and excellent videos online at reputable sites like NSSF.org and NRA.org.

If someone doesn't realize these resources are out there, they should suck it up and ask someone they know is experienced for help. There's no shame in that, in fact, I'd say it shows a lot of dedication and initiative. I've had complete strangers ask me for advice/help at the range and I'm always flattered and eager to help.

So, I agree with a previous post. Don't avoid crowded public ranges. Be more involved and civic-minded. We complain all the time about the state of this country when we can often be part of the solution.

[billyscott]

Thanks Jonnin, That's a good reference. Some people don't know what "clear", "out" and calling a range "cold" mean. 

I'm just thinking if I had a range, members only, I would want the rules understood and anyone who violated them would not 

shoot there again. 

[Bad Habit]

We are all safety officers at the range. My personal pet peeve is DO NOT handle a firearm when the line is clear and folks are downrange. I be courteous and correct you the first time. The second time you will wish you hadn't even woke up that morning. That, my friend, is how strong I feel about it.

[Guest carter]

I would of went over and punched him in the camel toe.... That's all u get is "Sorry man..." when you hear a bullet wizz ... do they have a bull horn out there so everyone can here even bell tone users...