Tennessean looking to talk to folks who have been denied on a background check

[Guest brianhaas]

Hello all,

 

Hope everyone is doing well. I'm interested in speaking to someone who has been denied a gun purchase or permit based on the background check.

 

It doesn't matter if you appealed the denial, I'm just looking for someone who has had that experience in some form.

 

I'm writing a story about Tennessee's high rate of denied background checks.

 

Contact info is bhaas@tennessean.com or my other contacts below.

 

Thanks!

 

Brian Haas
The Tennessean
Office:  615-726-8968
Fax: 615-259-8093
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/brianhaas

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Brian-Haas-The-Tennessean/172649086129964

http://www.tennessean.com

[xRUSTYx]

Have a buddy that was denied his HCP originally, went through the appeals process, etc...

 

I'll pass along your info Brian as I don't believe he is a member here.

[VolunteerGuns]

It seems that virtually all denials issued on TICs checks that I have ran are overturned within just a few days. I have often wondered what is popping up that leads to an initial "denied" response.

[scoutfsu]

Can we ask the premise behind the query Brian? 

[Jonnin]

I would bet most of the ones that are turned around quickly are typos or mistaken ID issues, glitches in the system.  Probably the occasional noob marks the wrong box in the yes/no questions. 

[gjohnsoniv]

I agree with Scoutfsu considering most of what you have asked in the past has not turned out to be in our favor. Though you do insist that all of that is above your pay grade.

[mikegideon]

I would bet most of the ones that are turned around quickly are typos or mistaken ID issues, glitches in the system.  Probably the occasional noob marks the wrong box in the yes/no questions. 

 

The 4473 questions have nothing to do with it. That form goes on file at the FFL. I've had my background check approved before I finished filling those out. TICS only requires name and a couple other items, maybe birth city and current address.

[Oh Shoot]

Thing is, one of O's new executive orders puts all denied 4473s into a permanent database, as I understand it.

 

It doesn't define whether this means permanently denied, or also those denied and overturned on the appeal. If in the latter, all they have to do is first deny them on an increasing basis, and put you in the database even though you're approved. Was just an "admin error" after all, eh?

 

- OS

[Guest MilitiaMan]

I've been approved 4 times, denied twice. Makes no sense to me at all.

 

 

While I comment here, I will not be making any sort of statement to a reporter, columnist or newspaper.

[Metalhead]

In my experience alot of our denials are charges that have no disposition on file. Alot of guys that got into a fist fight 40 years prior and the charges were dropped or thrown out have no disposition on them and TBI just denies them. Not all cases mind you, but alot of them turn out like that.

[LagerHead]

I know a guy who is denied every single time he buys a gun for the same thing that happened more than 20 years ago and the charges were dropped. According to the FBI about 4/10 of 1% of transactions are denied and upheld on appeal or not appealed. 

 

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/2011-operations-report/operations-report-2011

[Garufa]

So what is a high rate of denials?  Do we exceed some national average?  Could it be that we have a better system than anyone else or worse?

 

What's the purpose here?

Edited February 20, 2013 by Garufa

[SingleStack]

Ive noticed someone called it TICS. Is that diiferent than NICS? I always thought it was national and the stae had nothing to do with it. Is there a national check and state check.

[npgunner]

My bro is an active member on here and gets denied a lot. Silly thing is he's < 25 years old and never been in trouble with the law. Pretty sure it's a case of mistaken identity on the part of the TICS/NICS system (reporting his SS# doesn't improve the situation). The state gave him some papers he can carry around regarding the issues, seems to help with the purchasing ... sometimes.  I'll forward him to this post and he can contact you if he so desires. 

[Sam1]

Due to the source of this inquiry, I am expecting that the story headlines will read:

 

"TN background checks DO NOT WORK; 75% of applicants interviewed that were initially denied, were allowed to purchase a gun/get permit anyways"

 

It is not going to be a gun friendly article

[itchytriggerfinger]

Due to the source of this inquiry, I am expecting that the story headlines will read:

 

"TN background checks DO NOT WORK; 75% of applicants interviewed that were initially denied, were allowed to purchase a gun/get permit anyways"

 

It is not going to be a gun friendly article

 

+1

[ShamGlock]

How'd his last request for participation turn out for us? I'm not trying to be smart, I honestly never saw the article.

[mikegideon]

Due to the source of this inquiry, I am expecting that the story headlines will read:

 

"TN background checks DO NOT WORK; 75% of applicants interviewed that were initially denied, were allowed to purchase a gun/get permit anyways"

 

It is not going to be a gun friendly article

 

Brian hasn't screwed us yet, and he's had plenty of chances.

[Sam1]

I stand corrected then, made a generalization based on the employer

[Oh Shoot]

Ive noticed someone called it TICS. Is that diiferent than NICS? I always thought it was national and the stae had nothing to do with it. Is there a national check and state check.

 

TICS is Tennessee Instant Check System. They query NICS just like any other state but also do their own check (maybe). And tack on $10 for the favor.

 

http://www.tbi.tn.gov/firearm_check/firearm_back_check.shtml

 

- OS

[Hi Point Hooligan]

The reporters need to leave the guns alone, and do an investigation
on all the illegal aliens we have here in TN, and why they are getting food
stamps welfare and free health care. Then you can worry about the NICS check
some other time..

 

Or how jobs are being sent overseas, and what the impact on
the national/ local economy is. Ok, this is a good one, EBT card fraud and
abuse that is a hot button..

 

Even better people that live on welfare and food stamps for
years (as in decades)

 

Let’s do some REAL investigative reporting..

 

-HPH

[10-Ring]

It's disappointing to read a lot of the comments in this thread. 

Edited February 21, 2013 by 10-Ring

[1pointofview]

The reporters need to leave the guns alone, and do an investigation
on all the illegal aliens we have here in TN, and why they are getting food
stamps welfare and free health care. Then you can worry about the NICS check
some other time..





Or how jobs are being sent overseas, and what the impact on
the national/ local economy is. Ok, this is a good one, EBT card fraud and
abuse that is a hot button..





Even better people that live on welfare and food stamps for
years (as in decades)





Let’s do some REAL investigative reporting..





-HPH

It is sicking to read day after day, the attacks on guns but the praise for people like illegal imigrants. Funny where the priorities are

[Guest PapaB]

Hello all,

 

Hope everyone is doing well. I'm interested in speaking to someone who has been denied a gun purchase or permit based on the background check.

 

It doesn't matter if you appealed the denial, I'm just looking for someone who has had that experience in some form.

 

I'm writing a story about Tennessee's high rate of denied background checks.

 

Contact info is bhaas@tennessean.com or my other contacts below.

 

Thanks!

 

Brian Haas
The Tennessean
Office:  615-726-8968
Fax: 615-259-8093
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/brianhaas

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Brian-Haas-The-Tennessean/172649086129964

http://www.tennessean.com

 

I should note up front that I've never been denied.

 

There is a huge difference between being denied on a permit as opposed to being denied on a gun purchase. One of the biggest differences is that there are quite a few permit holders that have been initially denied on a gun purchase. That fact alone should tell you that something is wrong, either with their paperwork or the system. From reading the posts here dealing with denials it doesn't appear that their paperwork was the more common problem. Another difference is the sheer number of gun purchase requests compared to the number of permit requests. An accurate view of the situation behooves looking at each type of request separately.

 

HCP denials

How many total.

How many upheld. For what reasons?

How many were overturned. For what reasons?

 

Gun Purchase denials.

How many total.

How many upheld. For what reasons?

How many were overturned. For what reasons?

How many valid HCP holders denied. For what reasons?

 

What percentages of each type were denied altogether.

How many were properly denied for cause? (number and percentage)

How many were paperwork errors by the submitter? (number and percentage)

How many were mistaken identity? (number and percentage)

How many were system errors? (number and percentage)

How many were operator errors? (number and percentage)

 

If you can't get the information to answer all of those questions, you can't get a clear view of what the problem(s) may be. The person denied will often not know the real reason (ie. operator error, system malfunction).

 

The question remains, is this an honest look at why there are so many denials in Tennessee, or an attempt to make a point that people are trying to get guns when they shouldn't have them?

[Guest brianhaas]

Can we ask the premise behind the query Brian? 

 

Sure, I should have been clearer in my initial post. Tennessee has an unusually high rate of background check denials and I'm writing a story about that. In addition, we have a high rate of denial appeals, and I'm writing about that as well.

 

I'd like to know why our denial rate is so high when compared to the rest of the country and why so many denials are overturned on appeal. Also, I'm wondering what the heck is going to happen if universal background checks go into place if we're already having such high rates of appeals.