DHS supplier sells targets of american gun owners

[Guest RobThatsMe]

Well, I can't help but think about, what would be said if this was "flipped around" !

 

Suppose,at the range, we could buy targets of officers, judges, federal agents, etc. for target practice!

Not a doubt in my mind that this would be plastered all over the Gooberment media.

[GoneBallistic]

I have a big problem with this. A gun in no way constitutes a threat on its own. If i'm standing in my house, as depicted by these targets, with a gun in my hand because I just shot an intruder and a cop comes in and starts throwing lead at me, I'm gonna be pretty pissed. These targets program trainees to engage when they see a gun. That is very foolish IMHO.

[c.a.willard]

Gone ballistic, its not just that they have a gun its that the gun is pointed in your direction when facing the target.

[TrickyNicky]

I think it's not even that, the goal as I understand is to help make LEO aware that threats can come from anyone, even a pregnant woman or a child. LE is not trained to open fire on a threat upon sight.

In other words, these are probably used more as a tool to identify threats than anything else.
My dads old department has a hogans alley type setup on their range. When officers walk through they do not go blasting away at every target that represents an armed individual. They train as they would ideally behave on the street, talking or issuing commands and the range master pipes in over the PA to play the part if the individual.
Upon contact the armed paper target can talk back, flip around to designate a suspect surrendering or attack. The attack can be anything from the target charging along the rail or a verbal command by the range master.

Considering who made what posts in the thread about turbaned skeletons this thread is hilariously sad.

[Red Haired Girl]

The skeleton was dead of a head wound, hence, the bandage that was mistaken for a turban.

[GoneBallistic]

Gone ballistic, its not just that they have a gun its that the gun is pointed in your direction when facing the target.

I realize that but if I've just shot an intruder and someone else comes barging through the door, cop or not, he's gonna have a gun in his face. At least until I realize it's LE. It's my house. That's a totally different situation than out on the street. In my eyes, the street is LE's turf and I respect that. My house is my turf, and they need to respect that.

 

But then again, where I live I really don't have to worry about LE responding to a call quickly anyway. By the time they arrived, I suspect my gun would be holstered already and the intruder would be dead on the floor anyway so hopefully none of this would apply to me but it still would to some people.

 

I understand where you're coming from and I hope you see my angle as well.

[c.a.willard]

No I fully get your point, It's just that in you given example you have a lot more things to go off of than the officer responding does.  You know that they are comming, they are also wearing uniforms, and as long as they dont completely suck are highly likely to announce there presence when entering.  Add to that the blue lights when they arrive and you can be fairly sure very quickly that it's LE comming in your door.   The only thing they have to inform there decision is that there was a shooting in your home and that the moment they made entry a person was pointing a gun at them.  Thats a recipe for being shot.  Not saying that you have to holster the weapon, which would definately make it the easiest for them, but i would at least keep it orientated towards the bad guy and not the cops

[GoneBallistic]

No I fully get your point, It's just that in you given example you have a lot more things to go off of than the officer responding does.  You know that they are comming, they are also wearing uniforms, and as long as they dont completely suck are highly likely to announce there presence when entering.  Add to that the blue lights when they arrive and you can be fairly sure very quickly that it's LE comming in your door.   The only thing they have to inform there decision is that there was a shooting in your home and that the moment they made entry a person was pointing a gun at them.  Thats a recipe for being shot.  Not saying that you have to holster the weapon, which would definately make it the easiest for them, but i would at least keep it orientated towards the bad guy and not the cops

Good point with the announcements and the lights lol. That makes sense.

[East_TN_Patriot]

Of course, in true InfoWars fashion, they use creative liberties to make a story.  Unless I missed it, nowhere does it say that DHS is purchasing those targets, just that the same supplier that sells to DHS also sells those targets.  It feeds into this BS narrative that the Obama controlled DHS is preparing to wage war on the American people.  It also proves that when that's the only explanation you are looking for, you are guaranteed to find it.

[LowBb]

Of course, in true InfoWars fashion, they use creative liberties to make a story.  Unless I missed it, nowhere does it say that DHS is purchasing those targets, just that the same supplier that sells to DHS also sells those targets.  It feeds into this BS narrative that the Obama controlled DHS is preparing to wage war on the American people.  It also proves that when that's the only explanation you are looking for, you are guaranteed to find it.

Plus1!!!!!!!

[RichardR]

So your saying that DHS isn't buying any "no hesitation" targets & that no DHS agents or officers are going through "no hesitation" training?

Or are you claiming that even if it's true that it doesn't matter because it was reported by "infowars"?

The simple fact that there are ANY LEA's out there using these "no hesitation" targets & training is what is troubling.

It is just more troubling when coupled with the fact that the communists have gained so much power in this country, historically when that happens they tend to round up & exterminate tens of millions of their fellow soviet, chinese, korean, vietnamese, laotian, etc countrymen for simply disagreeing with their communist political philosophy.

Nope, nothing to see here, move along comrade, err I mean citizen ...

[QuietDan]

Don't make excuses for DHS. They make enough excuses for themselves. The biggest excuse, the biggest lie, is: "Nothing to see here, move along, move along."

 

There is something to see here.

 

Take a few shots on the range at an "Obammunist" target and see if you get a visit from the Secret Service. Turnabout ought to be, but is not, fair play.

[Guest ThePunisher]

It won't be long before the boxcars start rolling in a community near you.

[East_TN_Patriot]

So your saying that DHS isn't buying any "no hesitation" targets & that no DHS agents or officers are going through "no hesitation" training?

Or are you claiming that even if it's true that it doesn't matter because it was reported by "infowars"?

The simple fact that there are ANY LEA's out there using these "no hesitation" targets & training is what is troubling.

It is just more troubling when coupled with the fact that the communists have gained so much power in this country, historically when that happens they tend to round up & exterminate tens of millions of their fellow soviet, chinese, korean, vietnamese, laotian, etc countrymen for simply disagreeing with their communist political philosophy.

Nope, nothing to see here, move along comrade, err I mean citizen ...

I don't know if DHS is buying no-hesitation targets, and frankly, neither do you.  And even if they are, that is not evidence that a government takeover is in the works.  The use of no-hestation targets is not new in law enforcement, but has been going on for decades.  Yet somehow it's suddenly sinister because Obama is in the White House and Alex Jone suggests that is all the proof we need.  Perhaps this will be a shock to some people, but it's not only young black men and people of Middle Eastern descent who shoot and kill cops.

What I am saying here is that this is the typical attempt to stir up controversy where none appears to exist.  My problem is not with the information, but how the Alex Jones crew frames it, which is facts without actual context and the hint that the Obama/DHS/FEMA cabal is preparing to commit revolution and genocide against American citizens.  This gives people who the opportunity to fill in the blanks themselves with whatever interpretation fits their own individual views, hence why I said if you are only looking for one possibility, you are sure to find it.  

Let's think through this a little more.  There seems to be a suggestion that use of these target will render law enforcement officials robots who will kill people without hesitation or regret.  That is simply absurd.  Further, at the same time while people are jumping up and down about arming teachers, school administrators, and placing armed officers in schools to shoot potentially murderous young people, people are lamenting and gnashing their teeth about targets with a kid holding a gun.  I strongly - no very strongly - believe that this wouldn't have even been a story if people on the targets had been black, Middle Eastern, or Hispanic/Latino.

If there is a story here, the Alex Jones crew certainly didn't provide information to justify it.  Rather, they provide just enough information to give people who are predisposed to think the absolute worst of their government the opportunity to make a leap of logic that seems to make sense without any real evidence to back it up.  The people who buy into the right wing propaganda and conspiracy machine without even a slight bit of hesitation or reflexive thought are sheep just like the kool-aid drinkers and Obama zombies on the left.  Being a sheep doesn't apply to any specific political ideology.  

As for me, I will file this little tidbit of information in my mind for future days should some solid set of circumstances come to light that puts this target story into some sort of legitimate context that justifies heightened concern.  I am quite aware of the concept of incrementalism, but a set of random events does not serve as proof a conspiracy is afoot.  Instead of putting forward rational arguments and evidence-based policy proposals, too many on the right are wasting time on creating elaborate fairly tales.  While people are in panic mode chasing down non-existent conspiracies, they are taking their eye off the ball.  Besides wasting energy and resources, these stories feed into the left's narrative of the right as irrational and dangerous, which discredits Obama's opponents in general.  This is exactly why the left has been able to maintain power.

I am not a "comrade."  I am a free-thinking individual who doesn't blindly trust media of any sort, especially sources run by ideologues like Alex Jones, Glenn Beck, Piers Morgan, or Keith Olbermann.

I guess there is something morally superior about being shot and killed by pregnant women and young people with guns.  Perhaps these targets are less troubling and will make people feel better:

Edited February 23, 2013 by East_TN_Patriot

[QuietDan]

I find that when I think the very worst about our Federal Government, I'm seldom disappointed.

 

I occasionally find my very worst fears about our Federal Government are an underestimation.

 

It's more necessary for the Federal Government -- any government -- to demonstrate it's legitimacy to the citizens than for the citizens to assume legitimacy from the Federal Government.

 

And I'm writing as a retiree from that very same government.

[Danger Rane]

To throw more fuel on the fire....what do you guys think about gun ranges that don't allow it's members/customers to use any targets that depict "a human form" i.e. any of the targets mentioned above or even silhouettes.

I am traveling in WA State right now and they have at least two ranges here that have taken on this policy of their own accord. Needless to say, I won’t be spending money at either one.

It frustrates and saddens me that our country has gone so far over the edge that the slightest possibility of offending anyone is grounds to change everything in an effort to make “everyone get along”.

 

Edited February 23, 2013 by Danger Rane

[East_TN_Patriot]

It's more necessary for the Federal Government -- any government -- to demonstrate it's legitimacy to the citizens than for the citizens to assume legitimacy from the Federal Government.

I don't disagree with that point at all, but my point is that people like Alex Jones and his fans wouldn't see efforts by the government to demonstrate its legitimacy because they are only looking for ways to make every action by the government into an act of illegitimate government power.  Again, if that's all one is looking for then they are sure to find it.

[East_TN_Patriot]

To throw more fuel on the fire....what do you guys think about gun ranges that don't allow it's members/customers to use any targets that depict "a human form" i.e. any of the targets mentioned above or even silhouettes.

I am traveling in WA State right now and they have at least two ranges here that have taken on this policy of their own accord. Needless to say, I won’t be spending money at either one.

It frustrates and saddens me that our country has gone so far over the edge that the slightest possibility of offending anyone is grounds to change everything in an effort to make “everyone get along”.

 

Yes, I agree that this is an idiotic policy.  To make matters worse, there has been some resistance to printing silhouette targets using black ink.  When I was a LEO in Florida, most police departments and training academies got their B-27 targets through an organization called Pride Enterprises, which is a company that partners with the state department of corrections and uses inmates to make various products including printing.  The targets used to be printed with black ink, but after people complained that it was "desensitizing" officers to shooting black people, Pride was told to print them with blue ink instead.

[gjohnsoniv]

Yes, I agree that this is an idiotic policy.  To make matters worse, there has been some resistance to printing silhouette targets using black ink.  When I was a LEO in Florida, most police departments and training academies got their B-27 targets through an organization called Pride Enterprises, which is a company that partners with the state department of corrections and uses inmates to make various products including printing.  The targets used to be printed with black ink, but after people complained that it was "desensitizing" officers to shooting black people, Pride was told to print them with blue ink instead.

 

 

Yes, I agree that this is an idiotic policy.  To make matters worse, there has been some resistance to printing silhouette targets using black ink.  When I was a LEO in Florida, most police departments and training academies got their B-27 targets through an organization called Pride Enterprises, which is a company that partners with the state department of corrections and uses inmates to make various products including printing.  The targets used to be printed with black ink, but after people complained that it was "desensitizing" officers to shooting black people, Pride was told to print them with blue ink instead.

Seriously?

[East_TN_Patriot]

Seriously?

Yes, as far as I am aware, that is the story.  I was teaching part-time at one of the police academies and helped with the range one day.  The guy who was in charge of the range was telling me about it.

[gjohnsoniv]

Good Lord that's ridiculous.

[RichardR]

Well unfortunately marxist ideology isn't an imaginary conspiracy theory & (at least when I was in school) our history books were filled with government sponsered genocides targeting "undesireable" members of their own citizenry.

It happens.

We must be extremely vigilant & we must do everything that we can to prevent it from happening (again) here in these United States of America.

[Guest Gunbunnie]

I would like to think these targets are used to identify threats. For example an intruder in a house, grandma in her robe has intruder on ground, someone come through the door (cop) she turns and flags him. Is she a threat or not. If grandma is shot because she though it might be more thugs showing up would be all over the news and give police a bad rep.