Bug gun or not

[spikehunter]

I have really been toying with getting a naa mini 22lr just for cases when I cannot carry my 9mm. So times like running biking hiking or just when it's hot in the summer. Some times I feel that the outcomes should you ever actually have to use it would be worse than attempting to flea. Chances of stopping someone or something with a 22 doesn't seem ideal. I am thinking the chance of being sued for injuring someone would be more likely. I know I could get a 380 but I am thinking about times when that would even be to big. So are you better off with or without it?

[Jonnin]

The NAA is a neat gun but its extremely difficult to reload, tends to have poorish accuracy, and really is your last line of defense. 

 

I would STRONGLY recommend instead you get something just a hair bigger.  For just a little more space you can get a 32 or 380 or even a micro 9mm.  Once it is small enough to put in your pocket, is that really still too large?    I do not care for them, but a 2 shot 9mm derringer with some spare ammo would even seem to be more useful than a 5 shot 22 lr that requires disassembly to reload.

 

As far as the NAA goes, there has been some development of 22 mag cartridges that perform better in short barrel defense guns, and that may be a decent choice over a 22 LR variety.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Jonnin

[UncleJak]

I want to suggest the Beretta tomcats.  They are only a bit bigger but are way more accurate.

However, if all I had was a NAA, I would use it.  Better that than no gun at all.

[TMF]

You can fit a TCP or LCP in .380 in your back pocket. It is smaller than most wallets and very slim.

[TrickyNicky]

I want to suggest the Beretta tomcats.  They are only a bit bigger but are way more accurate.
However, if all I had was a NAA, I would use it.  Better that than no gun at all.

+1. Better than a pointy stick. I would also second the recommendation for a 32. I've got a keltec p32 I carry around the house in gym shorts, I barely even notice its there. I think the NAA certainly has its place but I also think that most times a micro pistol will meet and exceed the limitations that would necessitate one.

[Patton]

I can hit milk jugs at 25 yards with aNAA 22lr. They are great quality, very easily carried, and a blast. Unfortunately I sold my .22lr to buy a 22 mag version. I miss the .22lr, I think it was a little bit more accurate than .22lr out of the magnum version. I strongly recommend the slightly longer berrels.

[Patton]

The NAA is a neat gun but its extremely difficult to reload, tends to have poorish accuracy, and really is your last line of defense.

I would STRONGLY recommend instead you get something just a hair bigger. For just a little more space you can get a 32 or 380 or even a micro 9mm. Once it is small enough to put in your pocket, is that really still too large? I do not care for them, but a 2 shot 9mm derringer with some spare ammo would even seem to be more useful than a 5 shot 22 lr that requires disassembly to reload.

As far as the NAA goes, there has been some development of 22 mag cartridges that perform better in short barrel defense guns, and that may be a decent choice over a 22 LR variety.

A couple of things, I am more accurate with a NAA Mini than my LCP, P32, or j frames. My Cobra derringer gas actually been 100% reliable firearm but it takes some planning to deploy and fire it. It has Heavier trigger pull and a heavy hammer to pull back. Honestly the Cobra (.32H&R Mag & a great round) is about as big as the p32/LCP. The NAA is a lot smaller and I carry it almost all the time. It is very seldom the NAA is my only firearm being carried. It is very easy to learn how to effectively pull and cock the NAA and fire. I actually don't even think of it as a single action because it is such a second nature.
I really miss my 22lr version, I sold it to buy the magnum. A lot of people buy the short and cut the tip off of .22lr bullets to shoot out of the short. I knew a guy that carried the short in a pack of cigarettes. I know someone that has a friend wearing a .22lr mini velcrowed inside his hat.

[Patton]

I keep thinking of things to say. The NAA's have had a huge price Increase, a reasonable price for a new .22lr version would be $215 and the std mag version $245. These prices are about $40 more than 1 year ago.

[Jonnin]

A couple of things, I am more accurate with a NAA Mini than my LCP, P32, or j frames. My Cobra derringer gas actually been 100% reliable firearm but it takes some planning to deploy and fire it. It has Heavier trigger pull and a heavy hammer to pull back. Honestly the Cobra (.32H&R Mag & a great round) is about as big as the p32/LCP. The NAA is a lot smaller and I carry it almost all the time. It is very seldom the NAA is my only firearm being carried. It is very easy to learn how to effectively pull and cock the NAA and fire. I actually don't even think of it as a single action because it is such a second nature.
I really miss my 22lr version, I sold it to buy the magnum. A lot of people buy the short and cut the tip off of .22lr bullets to shoot out of the short. I knew a guy that carried the short in a pack of cigarettes. I know someone that has a friend wearing a .22lr mini velcrowed inside his hat.

 

I agree, they are easy to shoot.  I find the naa and derringer to both be about the same accuracy, which I find to be significantly less than my 238, however I have had a lot more practice with the sig and that could be biased in its favor.  Agreed, its smaller if your goal is to hide something deep that is unlikely to be found if you are searched & disarmed.  And they are well made. 

 

The answer I gave was based off application.  If the goal is to hide the smallest thing you can in hopes of avoiding detection during a search, mini wins.   If the goal is ti replace a fullsized pistol with a pocket gun, there are better choices IMHO.  Depends on how much space the OP has vs how much firepower he wants.

[Randall53]

I've always heard that the best gun for self defense is the one you have with you when you need it.

[spikehunter]

A lot of good points. I have heard nothing but good things about the naa. Space and weight is most important. I am just on the fence. I feel there are two camps/thoughts about the subject. 1. .22 is not enough fire power so its just best to not even bother 2. any gun is better than no gun. I can see both sides of the story but unfortunately you cannot get something for nothing when it comes to fire power and weight.

[spikehunter]

I keep thinking of things to say. The NAA's have had a huge price Increase, a reasonable price for a new .22lr version would be $215 and the std mag version $245. These prices are about $40 more than 1 year ago.

I did notice this, but what can you do. That seems to be the norm these days. Been looking for a used one but they are hard to come by

[JayC]

I carry a KelTec P3AT 380 as a bug, it's smaller than my wallet.  I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with something smaller.

[Patton]

I am going to throw out some personal experience here. When I first became a cop, the first homicide I ever went to was one. Shot to the head with a .22lr. I think of it everytime I drop my NAA in my pocket. I also have read the story of a SC Trooper who shot a suspect 5 times wit a .357 mag before the suspect shot the trooper once with a 22mag killing the trooper. The suspect is now playing basketball and lifting weights in prison.
I figure I am up close and personal if I ever need to use a BUG. What are the odds that I will need a BuG as a off duty cop or civilian anyway.

[runco]

I have one of those NAA 22LR with the factory fold up handle.  Its small, compact, and I do use it when the Sig or Glock on my side just isn't cool or welcomed.  I have owned it close to 20 years, and its still looks new.  As far as accuracy, I find it to be accurate enough at 5 to 7 yards, bascially what it is built for.  As far as quick re-loading, yea that is a challenge.  BTW I do only load 4 rounds, and let the hammer rest on an empty chamber.  My next size up before the big boys is my Beretta 21A which I love too. 

Edited February 20, 2013 by Runco

[Patton]

^NAA will upgrade older NAA free so you can safely load all 5 chambers. I would love to see pictures of a older, well worn NAA. Edited February 20, 2013 by Patton

[Wingshooter]

If its the only gun I have on me, my P3AT is as small as I'll go. It's small and light enough to go anywhere. I think my Cell phone is harder to carry.

As far as the orig question... Better off with 22lr or nothing? I'd choose to have the NAA over nothing.

[Pain103]

A 38 special revolver isn't a bad choice. Some times in the summer I may grab one and throw it in the cargo pocket for a quick trip to the gas station.

[Dolomite_supafly]

If you do decide on a 22 only load it with 60 grain Aguila SSS rounds. They are heavy and tumble. They can penetrate 8" and have a decent wouldn't channel. The shorter case helps reliability.
http://youtu.be/2T10BMy6oq0
I have a Taurus PLY-22 and that is all it is loaded with.

Dolomite

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Old Dad has a 1971-73 vintage .25 auto Colt Junior. He got me to clean it for him awhile back then we shot it off his back deck into a target nailed to a tree. I don't have vast experience with tiny guns, but that colt junior is the easiest/funnest tiny gun I've shot. Supposedly astra made them for colt, and there are various brownings and such in the same mold. The beretta .22 and .25 pocket pistols are in the same size ballpark. Taurus makes something real similar, but as best I recall the Taurus had a double action trigger. Maybe there are still-in-production "good quality" guns from other manufacturers in that niche?

 

Dunno if all the beretta tomcats made nowadays can carry cocked and locked? Looked it up awhile ago but can't recall. In some models such as the beretta Cheetah, the older Cheetahs could be carried cocked and locked but modern versions generally can't be carried thataway. I think what makes dad's colt junior so easy to shoot is the single-action trigger and easy to reach safety.

 

Have a .380 NAA Gaurdian that is pretty dang small, but the DA trigger is so stiff it would be iffy to hit the broad side of a barn at point blank range, in my hands. Someone with better skill would do better with it. A well made gun but not so practical for me to shoot. So haven't had interest in any of the other bugs with DA triggers, expecting them to be equally inaccurate in my hands as the Guardian, for the same reasons. Small grip + stiff trigger. I doubt if I could even shoot a Kahr PM9 accurately with that short little grip, even though the Kahr triggers are "fairly light and smooth".

 

Some of the Colt and Sig .380 and even 9mm pocket pistols are not THAT much bigger than a NAA revolver, junior, LCP, etc. Keep getting tempted to get a tomcat, sig .380 or 9mm, colt junior or mustang, etc. Something tiny and easier to shoot than the tiny guns with stiff triggers. But it isn't "mission critical" to spend the bucks on, because my Kahr P9 is "small enough" to carry most places, and it has a big enough grip and smooth enough DA trigger that I can usually at least hit the broad side of a barn at point blank distance. :)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=VlgarKnCA70

[JAB]

I like my WMR mini revolver as a BUG because it is a revolver.   If I carry a BUG it is carried on my weak side.  This means that if I am going for the BUG then my strong-side hand is probably either otherwise occupied or out of commission.  It also means there is a good chance that I would be defending myself at contact distance and/or from an awkward, less than ideal firing position.  To me, the smaller a semiauto is the more likely it is to jam - especially in such adverse conditions.  Therefore, I'd rather go with a small, reliable revolver.  I like .22 WMR because, especially with the advances in WMR ammo technology, I believe it would get the job done at close range while not having a whole lot of recoil when firing with my weak hand in one of the aforementioned less than ideal conditions.

 

I have a P3AT which sometimes gets carried as primary.  I much prefer the NAA for a weak hand BUG.

 

I would recommend that you consider a WMR (.22 Magnum) version for carry, though.  If you want to be able to practice with .22LR for cheaper practice, there are convertible models available.

 

My NAA mini is a 1 5/8 inch barreled WMR only version.  I put the oversize rubber grips similar to what is on the Black Widow on mine and it really improved handling.  I was resistant to put those grips on because I thought they would negatively impact concealment but they really don't.  If I come across one at the right price, I would probably pick up a Black Widow.  The barrel on them is slightly longer (2 inches) and they have 'real' sights.  For close in work (which is their 'niche', anyway) mine is accurate enough, though.

 

I did a very informal water jug 'test' of some of the newish Speer Gold Dot .22 WMR ammo and was fairly pleased with it.  The bullet opened up just as advertised and it more or less penetrated three jugs (I say more or less because it came to rest partially protruding from the rear of the third jug.)

 

By comparison, a .380 Hydroshok round fired from my P3AT didn't penetrate much better (IIRC, it got into the fourth jug but didn't even dent the back of that jug.)  Also, the .380 HS round gave only partial expansion.  For a small primary, I'd still go with the .380 over the NAA but for a BUG the NAA is my preference.  Then, again, for a small primary my S&W 642 has all but bumped the P3AT out of my pocket.  Also - although rare and not my first choice - there have been a couple of times I have carried the NAA as the one and only because - with the clothes I was wearing - it simply hid better than the P3AT or the 642.

 

I also did the same type of 'test' with Hornady Critical Defense in .22 WMR.  From the NAA, it didn't penetrate quite as well (made it into the third jug but didn't even mark the back of that jug.)  It also gave pretty poor expansion - in fact, it barely expanded at all.  [Just as an aside, I did the same kind of 'test' with both ammo types from my Heritage Rough Rider and from its 6.5 inch barrel the Hornady came into its own and actually slightly out performed the Gold Dot.)

 

As for reloading, yes, that is a drawback of the mini revolvers - they are pretty slow to reload.  Of course, when acting as a BUG I don't really see that as a concern.  If I am down to needing to quickly reload my weak hand BUG then things have already gone from bad to worse.  That said, NAA is supposed to be releasing a new model called the Sidewinder, soon.  That model has a swing-out cylinder for quicker reloading.  My understanding is that their plan is to do a limited 'collector' run with special serial numbers, first, and once that run is done start doing regular production models.  There are also break-top models (called the Ranger, IIRC) but those were only ever done as a limited run, were quickly bought up and to my understanding are pretty pricey when/if they become available on the market.

 

Anyhow, here is a pic of that Gold Dot round I 'tested'.  The round, itself, is sitting on the plastic box near the upper, left hand corner.  Notice how much it looks like Speer's picture of an expanded round that is in the lower, right hand corner:

 

Edited February 27, 2013 by JAB

[Guest The Highlander]

My best BUG is a S&W 342 Ti in .38 Special. It weighs about what my loaded Glock 17 mag weighs. Loaded with good +P's I am fine with it. I like what Clint Smith says...if things are so bad you have to transition to your BUG, do you really want it to be a small caliber, bugger to shoot?

[Patton]

A NAA revolver is a last ditch, hide out gun for me. It's either a NAA as a bug or no bug, people are talking about using a LCP or a J frme as a bug which is great. What about when my j frame or my LCP which is my primary? I shoot a NAA gun really well, but I carry it even better. I could carry a NAA in a hat, in my shoe, or in a pack of cigarettes. The point is for me having a BUG that someone may not find, would not suspect to give me a chance out. How many people can say they have a BUG 99% of the time? I can. Sure I would rather have a G22 and a G27 all the time but it is more likely I will carry a J frame with a NAA more frequently.

[tartanphantom]

I've carried an NAA 22mag Black Widow in my boot for a long time. It's simply my weapon of last resort. With the holster I use for it, it's so comfortable that I often forget that it's there until I take my boots off. On very rare occasions I will tuck it in a belly band or in a jacket pocket if I am not wearing cowboy boots.

 

I've had slightly better results with the Hornady ammo than described in the aforementioned tests, but then again the Black Widow model has a longer barrel than the standard NAA Minis. Even so, I can shoot this gun with either hand, and in the 7-yard range it's pretty darn accurate. Even though the NAA will never be my primary weapon of choice, I certainly won't leave home without it.

Edited February 27, 2013 by tartanphantom

[Patton]

I have read of some very recent misfires with the Hornady rimfire ammo. Have you had any?