Help me decide on an AR build (Read First!)

[Guest Halfpint]

I know I'm building an AR as my next major project; I'm ordering my lower tomorrow or Saturday. My problem comes from the fact that I don't know whether or not I want an M4gery or a modified DMR.

I have an H&K USC that will become a full UMP clone when it comes out of layaway, and a Remington 5R with Hensoldt optics, so CQB and 500+ yards are both covered. I have plenty of room to shoot at various ranges, and I'm getting a membership at MSSA so I can do it somewhere other than "the country."

Basically, an AR for me would be a fun gun, with only potential SHTF usage. I'm a "hole up and wait" kind of guy. That, and I figured that knowing at least the basics of the AR system is a benefit since I ship out to Parris Island next May or early June.

I've worked up two build ideas, just trying to make up my mind.

The M4

-SOPMOD stock

-16" or possibly 14.5" barrel, quad-rail handguard

-Vertical foregrip and light

-EoTech and 3x magnifier

-GG&G backup iron sights

The DMR

-Magpul PRS stock

-20" barrel, quad-rail handguard, bipod

-GG&G irons

-Leupold optics in an ARMS QD mount

-Geiselle 2-stage trigger (IMO great trigger, great price)

I'm leaning toward the DMR but I wouldn't mind having both--eventually that's the plan. Just deciding which one to build first. Like I said, I already have a decent carbine/SBR in the works, and the 5R takes care of any precision work that could come up.

Opinions or additional AR-platform suggestions?

Edited July 10, 2008 by Halfpint

[TGO David]

I don't think a 20" bbl is really going to be necessary for a DMR, especially since you have the Remington for things that might require finesse. Maybe just go with a 16" heavy bbl and a decent optic like the Millett DMS-1 or a Trijicon Accupoint. Then you'd have a rifle that fit comfortably between CQB and longer ranges. Which is really what the DMR builds usually are all about anyway.

[Guest c_o_jones]

I would build the M4 first.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

I would build the M4 first.

+1

I'd go with the 14.5" M4, if that's something you are seriously considering. If for no other reason that you might not be able to make an SBR after November. And I'm not sure how quickly you could build/purchase both of those on your list... especially with the Marine Corps commitment coming up. I just got out of the military, so I know how busy the first few months/years will keep you.

I'd get all of the NFA toys out of the way first, for sure, and then focus on the "normal" length rifles afterwards. Just my $0.02.

[TGO David]

Eh. Other than just barely qualifying as an SBR and letting him get his tax stamp out of the way, there's no real advantage to a 14.5" bbl over a 16" bbl. If he's going to SBR it, he might as well really SBR it.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Eh. Other than just barely qualifying as an SBR and letting him get his tax stamp out of the way, there's no real advantage to a 14.5" bbl over a 16" bbl. If he's going to SBR it, he might as well really SBR it.

True... but he mentioned 14.5" vs 16". If he's open to shorter lengths, I'd definitely go 10.5" also.

[Guest Halfpint]

I don't know why I didn't think of it before . . . I could always start with an LMT monolithic rail platform with an 18" barrel, and get the paperwork started on a rifle with barrel "less than 16 inches." The 10.5" barrel is 'only' $350. That would cover both bases pretty well, am I right?

[Guest Mugster]

Well, the big drawback to an SBR in 5.56 is velocity. I dunno how fast m193 is going to clock out of 10.5", but if you got 2800 I'd be surprised.

So your probably looking at shooting heavy bullets at least, and that stuff isn't cheap from the factory.

You might look at other calibers like .458 or one of the 6.x mm's which is my intention. I might go 7.62x39, if I ever get any mags from cproducts.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

I don't know why I didn't think of it before . . . I could always start with an LMT monolithic rail platform with an 18" barrel, and get the paperwork started on a rifle with barrel "less than 16 inches." The 10.5" barrel is 'only' $350. That would cover both bases pretty well, am I right?

Things to consider, going that route:

1. Is the monolithic rail going to allow a shorter barrel later (i.e. be too long -- carbine MRP vs rifle MRP)?

2. Do you want to be stuck using proprietary barrels (only LMT)?

3. Caliber choices, due to limited selection of barrels, if you don't want to purchase an entire upper to keep swapping out. (no 7.62x39, .22LR, etc in the MRP barrels)

Joe (HeroGear) has an MRP carbine, I believe. So maybe he can comment or address these concerns... but the above (especially proprietary barrels) are deal breakers for me, and I originally lusted after the LMT MRPs until I started doing research and decided that I preferred to build my own carbine from scratch.

If you're interested in the MRP concept, I'd check out the VLTOR VIS (Click Here) as an alternative. Through the use of their barrel nut, you can use any AR barrel out there. That alone, is a huge plus.

Edited July 10, 2008 by Verbal Kint

[BimmerFreak]

I don't know why I didn't think of it before . . . I could always start with an LMT monolithic rail platform with an 18" barrel, and get the paperwork started on a rifle with barrel "less than 16 inches." The 10.5" barrel is 'only' $350. That would cover both bases pretty well, am I right?

I highly recommend that route

Here is my humble little rifle:

LMT MPR upper

Wilson Combat Tactical Custom lower (full auto)

LMT 10.5" barrel 5.56mm 1/7 twist

LMT 16" barrel 5.56mm 1/7 twist

LMT 16" barrel 6.8mm 1/10 twist

LMT bolt assembly 5.56mm

LMT bolt assembly 6.8mm

LMT supplied and calibrated torque wrench

PRI Gasbuster charging handle

EoTech 553

Trijicon Accupoint 3-9x40

Arms BUIS

Troy Industries front sight

Surefire M900

Magpul CTR

Magpul MIAD

PRI 6.8 mags

HK 5.56 mags

Yankee Hill suppressor

Enroute:

LMT 6.8mm SBR barrel

[BimmerFreak]

If you're interested in the MRP concept, I'd check out the VLTOR VIS (Click Here) as an alternative. Through the use of their barrel nut, you can use any AR barrel out there. That alone, is a huge plus.

I also own a rifle built up using the Vltor VIS2.

Owning both, my vote goes to LMT.

[TGO David]

I highly recommend that route

Here is my humble little rifle:

LMT MPR upper

Wilson Combat Tactical Custom lower (full auto)

LMT 10.5" barrel 5.56mm 1/7 twist

LMT 16" barrel 5.56mm 1/7 twist

LMT 16" barrel 6.8mm 1/10 twist

LMT bolt assembly 5.56mm

LMT bolt assembly 6.8mm

LMT supplied and calibrated torque wrench

PRI Gasbuster charging handle

EoTech 553

Trijicon Accupoint 3-9x40

Arms BUIS

Troy Industries front sight

Surefire M900

Magpul CTR

Magpul MIAD

PRI 6.8 mags

HK 5.56 mags

Yankee Hill suppressor

Enroute:

LMT 6.8mm SBR barrel

I think I just soiled myself.

[Guest Halfpint]

Thanks, Joe . . . I hate you now.

The LMT website lists the 10.5" barrel as available with the rifle-length upper, so no worries there--I have a question about the bolt, though, as half the bolts say they should be used with 14.5"+ barrels only, which leaves out the 10.5" . . . if someone can offer a solution to that dilemma, I'd really appreciate it.

That pretty much settles it--I'll start with the 18" so I have something to shoot while I'm waiting on the Form 4 to be approved, then pick up the 10.5" and enjoy it.

1. Is the monolithic rail going to allow a shorter barrel later (i.e. be too long -- carbine MRP vs rifle MRP)?

2. Do you want to be stuck using proprietary barrels (only LMT)?

3. Caliber choices, due to limited selection of barrels, if you don't want to purchase an entire upper to keep swapping out. (no 7.62x39, .22LR, etc in the MRP barrels)

1. According to what's listed on the website, yes.

2. It's mostly a fun gun, so I'm not worried about swapping barrels other than between a DMR configuration and ~10-12 inches.

3. As far as caliber goes, I'll stick to one caliber per gun--keeps things simpler, IMHO. Only exception I tend to make to that rule is a .22 conversion kit for a pistol.

Edited July 10, 2008 by Halfpint

[DBTN]

Wise decision on the LMT.

[Guest tngunman]

Get 2 uppers with a single lower!