AR 15 Lower Legality?

[53caddy]

Ok here it goes. I found an auto cad drawing and a Pro E model of an ar15 lower receiver. My question is if I take it to a machine shop to get one CNC. What legality do I have to worry about??

[BrandonTN]

Not sure on the legality issues, but from a cost standpoint, the set-up and machining would be very $$$, unless the machinist/shop already had the proper tooling.

Interesting links...

http://www.warpedairsmithing.com/arblog/main.asp

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=4197

My initial comment was based on starting from a solid chunk of Al, vs. buying a 0% receiver.

Edited July 9, 2008 by BrandonTN

[Guest CrazyLincoln]

IANAL, but.....

To my understanding the machine shop could only complete up to 80% of the receiver then you would have to finish it yourself.

Or there are companies that sell 80% receivers with instructions to complete yourself if you're wanting to get that involved in the process.

There are some legal issues involved and I suggest you do some research and contact a professional who knows firearms law before taking on such a project.

I imagine some of the other board members have some more informative input.

[bteague2]

If a friend "helps" you with it you might be fine, but if they make money off of the deal they'd need to be a manufacturer or whatever type FFL. I think.

[Mausermeister]

The machine shop owner would need a type 07 manufacturer ffl to build the receiver for you, whether you pay him or not.

You, as an unlicensed individual, may legally build one receiver per year for your personal use, whether building from scratch or completing an "80%" blank. However, you may not sell it, ever.

As for someone "helping" you with it, you're really getting into a "grey" area of the law. As long as they just give instructions and advice, all is kosher. If they give hands-on help, it's up to "interpretation" by the bATFE whether they must be licensed or not.

Information can be found on the bATFE website, as well as a few other sights dedicated to home building.

Clear as mud, right?

[53caddy]

The machine shop owner would need a type 07 manufacturer ffl to build the receiver for you, whether you pay him or not.

You, as an unlicensed individual, may legally build one receiver per year for your personal use, whether building from scratch or completing an "80%" blank. However, you may not sell it, ever.

As for someone "helping" you with it, you're really getting into a "grey" area of the law. As long as they just give instructions and advice, all is kosher. If they give hands-on help, it's up to "interpretation" by the bATFE whether they must be licensed or not.

Information can be found on the bATFE website, as well as a few other sights dedicated to home building.

Clear as mud, right?

So I could personally machine it myself and have no problems about it. Now the question comes up could it be fully auto or just semi auto?

[Guest jwp]

You could machine it yourself provided you submit an ATF Form 1 which notifies them that you have manufactured a weapon.

Semi-auto only. Full auto would be a f-f-felony.

[53caddy]

You could machine it yourself provided you submit an ATF Form 1 which notifies them that you have manufactured a weapon.

Semi-auto only. Full auto would be a f-f-felony.

Thats what I was thinking just making sure. And do you have to fill out an ATF Form 1

[Guest jwp]

And do you have to fill out an ATF Form 1

Yes. And you have to assign it a serial number.

There are a few rules regarding transfer and sale as well.

[53caddy]

Yes. And you have to assign it a serial number.

There are a few rules regarding transfer and sale as well.

Well I thought if it was for personal use and if I never sale it I didn't have to do any of that.

[Mausermeister]

I'm not trying to be an arsehole, but you are getting some incorrect information is some of the above posts. I have several builds under my belt. ALL PERFECTLY LEGAL.

The ATF form 1 is for manufacture of NFA items... machine guns, SBR's, suppressors, AOW's. Unless you have an 07 ffl with SOT and letter of intent from a law enforcement agency, you cannot manufacture a full auto. It is out of the question. Do not even entertain the thought. You WILL get an all expense paid 10 year trip to Club-Fed, showering with big, mean, hairy, horny men.

DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT BUILDING A FULL-AUTO!

You WILL only build a semi-auto, bolt-action, or single-shot.

You do NOT have to submit anything to the ATF.

You do NOT have to serialize it.

It is for your own personal use only.

You can NEVER sell, trade, or give it to anyone else.

I used to have a link to the ATF regs concerning home-building by an un licensed person, but I can't find it now. The atf website is nearly impossible to navigate and actually find what you are looking for. I will post the link when I find it.

Edited July 10, 2008 by Mausermeister

[53caddy]

Thanks Mausermeister. That is what I have researched so far also.

[Guest jwp]

Mauser is correct under the current regulations. I went back and checked the books. I was operating under another rule which has since been changed or removed.

Also under the current regs you can build five a year before you have to submit any ATF paper and start paying the all important FET.

[DaveTN]

Ok here it goes. I found an auto cad drawing and a Pro E model of an ar15 lower receiver. My question is if I take it to a machine shop to get one CNC. What legality do I have to worry about??

I have a question. I’m a Toolmaker, I have accesses to many types of prints and models of AR’s and their components (CATIA, AutoCAD, MasterCam), have accesses to full CNC machining including five axis, and have a very large CMM for inspection or reverse engineering.

So my question is what is in that model that you can’t buy already made? One-off of anything would cost you a fortune in material and programming. Unless the shop is in the business of manufacturing firearms; I doubt you will have anyone that is capable of producing a quality firearm that would want to accept the liability.

[Guest TheBulldog]

Its just WAY less trouble to BUY one than make a lower.

But, if you want an exercise in the alphabet agency, have at it.

It really is not worth the money time and trouble with so many selling high quality AR lowers today.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

It really is not worth the money time and trouble with so many selling high quality AR lowers today.

+1

With several companies selling their stripped lowers at the $95-105 mark (Spike's Tactical, to name one), TheBulldog is right... it really isn't worth the cost or effort to make your own, unless you had the appropriate licenses and did them in bulk to sell (i.e. went into the firearms business). The materials alone, for a one- or two-off build, would run you more than the $95-105.

[Guest Jason F.]

Actually the materials to build a stripped lower will run you about $30. If you have the drill bits and end mills to do the work there is no cost other than final coating. If you do not have free access to a mill there really is no use in going down the scratch build road. My lower 7075 Mil Spec raw forging was $28 plus shipping.

If you have the access to equipment and you have the time than you can build one cheaper than buying a stripped lower. Do it because you want the experience of doing it not because you just want an AR15. If you just want a budget AR15 than just buy a stripped lower.

It is sort of like rebuilding the engine in your old truck or building your own deck. There are thousands of newer nicer vehicles you could just buy for what you might spend to rebuild it. There are thousands of people who are probably more experience rebuilding your motor and of it for a living. There are thousands of builders that could build that deck faster and better if you hired them. The only reason to build an AR lower is the satisfaction you would get from completing the project regardless of time or money invested.

[53caddy]

Thank you Jason. This is what I am wanting to do. Just have fun

[Guest TheBulldog]

I can understand that, if you have the time. Enjoy.

It's just a ton of trouble to get it done and stay within the rules.

[Mausermeister]

Found it.

They reccomend you serialize it, but it is not required.

I was apparently mistaken about beaing able to transfer it. They also reference how it must be marked if it is ever transfered, but you will have to assume any and all legal liability for it. Not worth it in the long run. I've know many people to strip down rifles they built and sell the "parts kit" but not the receiver.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/building_a_firearm.pdf

[Guest Jason F.]

No rules to stay within. Buy chunk of metal or un machined forging, machine it yourself, buy readily available AR15 lower parts kits (fire control group) for about $50, assemble, stick on your lower, and enjoy. Oh and never sell it.

If you want to sell the gun just disassemble it and sell off the parts you bought. Keep the lower as a paperweight or just cut it into a few pieces for the scrap bin.