The 21ft rule - fail "these officers did not have to get cut"

[mcurrier]

The 21ft rule - fail "these officers did not have to get cut"

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL1zX-SrBH0

 

 

p.s. Why can people not learn how to hold a video camera steady.  This was like watching a bigfoot video.

[babelt]

Bad video quality but a good example. 

[NRA]

scary chit

[JRWnTN]

Given the quality of marksmanship and tactics, a "50 ft. Rule" would have made no difference.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Yet if you know what you are doing you can beat it at 9 feet......

[c.a.willard]

if he would have had that rifle pointed at the guy instead of carring it in his non firing hand he probably could have beat it at 3 foot

[JPR1959]

Isn't that why most police officers carry 12 ga shotguns?  One shot and no more attacker with a knife.

[NRA]

Yet if you know what you are doing you can beat it at 9 feet......

 

 

if he would have had that rifle pointed at the guy instead of carring it in his non firing hand he probably could have beat it at 3 foot

no ... no and no

[alwaysonjohn]

i agree with the tactics being all wrong.  They set themselves up where they were shooting at each other since they decided to "surround" the guy with the knife? I don't know whose terrible idea that was.  The guy with the patrol rifle then came close to the man with the knife to do the negotiations? I would want him to be out on perimeter pointing his muzzle at the guy with the knife while i was a little closer (but well out of 21ft)  the entire time during negotiations...  I don't  know why they would get that close to someone with a knife either.

[Randall53]

I hope Feinsein don't see this.  She'll be trying to ban hunting knives.

[NRA]

i agree with the tactics being all wrong.  They set themselves up where they were shooting at each other since they decided to "surround" the guy with the knife? I don't know whose terrible idea that was.  The guy with the patrol rifle then came close to the man with the knife to do the negotiations? I would want him to be out on perimeter pointing his muzzle at the guy with the knife while i was a little closer (but well out of 21ft)  the entire time during negotiations...  I don't  know why they would get that close to someone with a knife either.

 they obviously had no real training

[jughead]

i have a nephew in one of the alphabet agencies that practices that rule and the best anyone has done is a tie. i used to be pretty fast and tried it with my son and knew he was coming and lost both times

[Cruel Hand Luke]

no ... no and no

 

No? ....if you move your feet first you CAN beat the Tueller drill at 3 yards.  Come to our Zero To Five Feet Gunfighting class....you'll see. The key is not standing still like a statue, but getting off the X and NOT being there when the knife gets there. 

Edited February 15, 2013 by Cruel Hand Luke

[Guest PapaB]

No? ....if you move your feet first you CAN beat the Tueller drill at 3 yards.  Come to our Zero To Five Feet Gunfighting class....you'll see. The key is not standing still like a statue, but getting off the X and NOT being there when the knife gets there. 

 

How about a video. Then we can all see.

 

I'm skeptical that anyone, with a holstered handgun, can draw and shoot an attacker 3 yards away, before the attacker can reach them. You'd have to move faster backward (or sideways) than the attacker can move forward. Moving gives you more time, but not enough at those distances. Only a zombie will go to where you used to be, a real attacker will follow you.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

And as they follow, you shoot them...a lot.....pretty simple. 

 

Unfortunately a large number of people think that guns only work if YOU are stationary. They think they must stand still and shoot. I assure you...at 3 yards and closer you can make high quality hits while you are moving IF that is something you practice. 

 

This is why Force on Force training is so critical. If ALL you ever do is shoot paper then you are really just training to be a member of a firing squad or to execute deaf dumb and blind people because they are the only ones who would not move or react to you. To have a feel for what can be done against live opponents you have to train some against...live opponents. 

 

Shooting paper is like hitting the heavy bag. It is important but it is not the ONLY thing. If all you do is hit the bag then you will probably get really good ....at hitting a bag. But you would get demolished in the ring if ALL you ever did in training was hit the bag. You have to spar to get a feel for the speed that things take place and to determine what YOU can actually do in real time. 

 

Right now from a dead stand still could you win a 5 yard foot race against an opponent who you had a 3 yard head start on?

 

Think of it THAT way. Yes. If you stand perfectly still and try to draw and shoot him before he gets to you then YES you will get stabbed....a lot.

 

But if you QUICKLY move your feet FIRST and then draw AS YOU ARE EVADING THEM  you will probably beat them. The reason I mention a 5 yard race is that if you are 3 yards away from him and you take 2 running steps that will cover 2 yards...putting you 5 yards from his start position(hence the race to 5 yards with you having a 3 yard head start).

 

It should take you 2 steps to draw your pistol.If you turn and take 2 steps that will put you 5 yards from where his starting point was and still keep you ahead of where he is now (probably about the 3 yard mark - or where you previously were). But he still has not touched you.

 

But if you go laterally (to the side) instead as he is trying to go 3 yards straight ahead, you will now also get out from in front of him and he will have to turn and redirect to continue the attack and that buys you even more distance and time to get your gun out and get hits on him before he catches you. It is simple physics and body mechanics.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Cruel Hand Luke

[TMF]

This video needed Benny Hill music.

[Guest PapaB]

This video needed Benny Hill music.

 

I thought it was a Mack Sennett short.

 

I'm sure most of you will have to look that one up.

[1morethan8]

At 20 feet... I tell them, "drop the knife or die". I use .357 magnum and most of the time .44 magnum or .454 Casull which would already be drawn, cocked, and aimed.  I like to aim just above the tip of their nose in the "triangle of death".

 

After 5 seconds, if the knife is not dropped.. I fire.

 

No need to side step and never closer than 20 feet.

[JRWnTN]

So, you'll shoot the guy 20 ft. away who is not moving toward you?

 

You'll make two lawyers happy.  The one who represents the guy's next-of-kin and the one you have to pay to try and defend you.

[1morethan8]

So, you'll shoot the guy 20 ft. away who is not moving toward you?

 

You'll make two lawyers happy.  The one who represents the guy's next-of-kin and the one you have to pay to try and defend you.

 

Yeah.. you got part of it right.

1) The cop on the right should never have crossed the fence, at that point he was about 21 ft to the subject.

2) He should have had his rifle in the ready to fire position.

3) His mistake just about cost his life and three others.

4) If you're ever in a position like this, you need to forget about lawyers and leave your "rose colored glasses" at home!

[Dustbuster]

yah real bad chit. gets even worse when theyre jacked on meth or coke.....they stay up longer unless they suffer a sucking head wound......

[NRA]

yah real bad chit. gets even worse when theyre jacked on meth or coke.....they stay up longer unless they suffer a sucking head wound......

yeah anyone that thinks they can stop an attack at 3 yards away is kinda well lets just say not really with it.

 

on a lighter note

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_vvI26NnwE

[ted]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=jwHYRBNc9r8

[1morethan8]

If it was only a perfect world... but it's not!

[Monkeyman2500]

Man my a#% ain't getting no where near anyone with a knife that big. Don't know what those guys were thinking.