Muslims want gun shop to stop selling targets

[NoBanStan]

Oh the horror! How did you ever survive such atrocities?

 

day by day sir.... day by day....

[Guest RevScottie]

It sounds to me that RevScottie is a bit butt-hurt because a Baptist shared their belief with him in the past and he interpreted it as the person trying to force their belief on him while not understanding that that is exactly what a belief is: something that you believe to be true. Would he prefer to be lied to? I have never seen any Baptist put a gun or sword to someone and tell them to believe what they believe or they'll kill you. That's not to say that there aren't any out there, but they haven't made the news that I'm aware of, and they certainly wouldn't be Baptist or Christian in my estimation.

If you only knew how far you are off target with that statement you would be laughing like I am right now. Some of you assume way too much about people on the Internet.

 

It has become obvious that you guys have never been exposed to the Independent Fundamental Baptist faith that was so prevalent in the South in the 50s-80s. They make First Baptist churches look extremely liberal. They have endless rules about dress code, hair length, facial hair, drinking alcohol, mixed bathing, working on Sunday and a host of other things. Kind of sounds like some other extremist faiths doesn't it? They are separatists that do not cooperate with other denominations. They would institute their beliefs as law in a heartbeat if given the opportunity.These are the type folks who walk around protesting at all kinds of concerts, sporting events, etc. And before you go saying they are just a small minority these churches once had tens of thousands of members in Chattanooga alone.

[Randall53]

The problem I have with Political Correctness is it's ONE FREAK'N WAY.....!!!!  It's a requirement placed upon White America due to the sins of many years ago, of which I had nothing to do with.  Bigot?  I don't think so.  Just an observation IMHO.

[Randall53]

If you only knew how far you are off target with that statement you would be laughing like I am right now. Some of you assume way too much about people on the Internet.

 

It has become obvious that you guys have never been exposed to the Independent Fundamental Baptist faith that was so prevalent in the South in the 50s-80s. They make First Baptist churches look extremely liberal. They have endless rules about dress code, hair length, facial hair, drinking alcohol, mixed bathing, working on Sunday and a host of other things. Kind of sounds like some other extremist faiths doesn't it? They are separatists that do not cooperate with other denominations. They would institute their beliefs as law in a heartbeat if given the opportunity.These are the type folks who walk around protesting at all kinds of concerts, sporting events, etc. And before you go saying they are just a small minority these churches once had tens of thousands of members in Chattanooga alone.

 

 

I agree, but actually, you're describing several denominations during that time frame.  Church of God, Church of Christ, Independent Baptist, Fundamental Baptist, as you said and other just small unaffiliated country churches.  Those traits were a lot more prevalent years ago.

[Guest RevScottie]

I agree, but actually, you're describing several denominations during that time frame.  Church of God, Church of Christ, Independent Baptist, Fundamental Baptist, as you said and other just small unaffiliated country churches.  Those traits were a lot more prevalent years ago.

...and there are still a lot of those church denominations in the Chattanooga area that havent changed. I was genuinely surprised by how many people on this board had never been exposed to this radical form of fundamentalism.

[Guest RevScottie]

The problem is when we lump all Muslims together as evil terrorists we have nothing to stand on when the same is done to us. If we aren't sensitive to the rights of others it may one day be our very own rights that are being taken away. If you don't believe that is happening just look at what happens when a church or faith based company stands against abortion or gay rights. Americans seem to value religious freedom as long as its their own particular flavor.

[DaveS]

It won't be long before Habib sues Jeff Dunham over the charactor "Ahmed the Dead Terrorist"....ho hum...

 

Dave S

[Guest 270win]

Maybe they can talk their brethren into stop doing suicide bombings and other terrorist acts.

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

I am actually reading the Quran right now....

 

That is not a religion of Peace...

 

They hate Jews and Christians...any way you twist it

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I thought first baptist was just the name of the FIRST baptist church established in any little burg, and not a denomination? I lived several places growing up, and some places also had second baptist churches and such, along with first methodist, etc?

 

I grew up going to baptist churches most of which I think were associated with the southern baptist convention. Even the ones I attended up in yankeeland were southern baptist churches. Jimmah Carter's branch, unless he permanently disowned them, or vice-versa. There is at least one black baptist association, and maybe a couple of others, and then all the little (and a few huge) independent baptist churches.

 

I got the impression that there is more racial integration among the baptists nowadays. A few years ago attended a funeral at a baptist church in Tuscaloosa AL where the attendees were about 50/50 black'n'white, which was a lot different than back in the 1950's. I was impressed. Old elderly redneck Dad is still a practicing baptist, and the last decades he's attended a church maybe 90 percent black, but I gather it is some kind of independent denomination rather than belonging to the SBA.

 

I just don't get along well with church services. About only enjoyed the music and little else. But I don't care, folks can believe and practice whatever they like as long as they don't bother me about it. The "first baptist churches" I attended growing up tended to have a higher-income congregation and more formal manners. Enjoyed the tiny little poor churches with run-down buildings, old furniture and small humble congregations more, as much as it could be enjoyed. Not so stuffy.

 

Even the uptight fundamentalist baptists and other protestants do good works, but in my experience was selective. "Taking care of their own" perhaps. When I did social work long ago, considered it real lucky to be assigned down-and-out clients who happened to already be heavily religious in a fundamentalist fashion, because I could hook em up with the fundamentalist charities and they would take such good care of their own that I didn't have to do much of anything else and could practically close the case. But it wasn't useful to refer po folks who didn't agree theologically, because the fundamentalist organizations didn't want much to do with them. The "non theologically compatible" had to be referred to such as Salvation Army or Catholic Charities, who were not so picky about who they would help. Nevertheless, the people that the fundamentalists would help, they helped A LOT, which was an overall benefit, taking a load off the less-selective charities. Maybe if gang bangers and crack ho's would run their own charities and "take care of their own" it would solve a great deal. :)

 

[E4 No More]

If you only knew how far you are off target with that statement you would be laughing like I am right now. Some of you assume way too much about people on the Internet.
 
It has become obvious that you guys have never been exposed to the Independent Fundamental Baptist faith that was so prevalent in the South in the 50s-80s. They make First Baptist churches look extremely liberal. They have endless rules about dress code, hair length, facial hair, drinking alcohol, mixed bathing, working on Sunday and a host of other things. Kind of sounds like some other extremist faiths doesn't it? They are separatists that do not cooperate with other denominations. They would institute their beliefs as law in a heartbeat if given the opportunity.These are the type folks who walk around protesting at all kinds of concerts, sporting events, etc. And before you go saying they are just a small minority these churches once had tens of thousands of members in Chattanooga alone.

Wrong! I am from an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church, and they were nothing like that. In fact they made no rules at all.

[E4 No More]

I thought first baptist was just the name of the FIRST baptist church established in any little burg, and not a denomination? I lived several places growing up, and some places also had second baptist churches and such, along with first methodist, etc?
 
I grew up going to baptist churches most of which I think were associated with the southern baptist convention. Even the ones I attended up in yankeeland were southern baptist churches. Jimmah Carter's branch, unless he permanently disowned them, or vice-versa. There is at least one black baptist association, and maybe a couple of others, and then all the little (and a few huge) independent baptist churches.
 
I got the impression that there is more racial integration among the baptists nowadays. A few years ago attended a funeral at a baptist church in Tuscaloosa AL where the attendees were about 50/50 black'n'white, which was a lot different than back in the 1950's. I was impressed. Old elderly redneck Dad is still a practicing baptist, and the last decades he's attended a church maybe 90 percent black, but I gather it is some kind of independent denomination rather than belonging to the SBA.
 
I just don't get along well with church services. About only enjoyed the music and little else. But I don't care, folks can believe and practice whatever they like as long as they don't bother me about it. The "first baptist churches" I attended growing up tended to have a higher-income congregation and more formal manners. Enjoyed the tiny little poor churches with run-down buildings, old furniture and small humble congregations more, as much as it could be enjoyed. Not so stuffy.
 
Even the uptight fundamentalist baptists and other protestants do good works, but in my experience was selective. "Taking care of their own" perhaps. When I did social work long ago, considered it real lucky to be assigned down-and-out clients who happened to already be heavily religious in a fundamentalist fashion, because I could hook em up with the fundamentalist charities and they would take such good care of their own that I didn't have to do much of anything else and could practically close the case. But it wasn't useful to refer po folks who didn't agree theologically, because the fundamentalist organizations didn't want much to do with them. The "non theologically compatible" had to be referred to such as Salvation Army or Catholic Charities, who were not so picky about who they would help. Nevertheless, the people that the fundamentalists would help, they helped A LOT, which was an overall benefit, taking a load off the less-selective charities. Maybe if gang bangers and crack ho's would run their own charities and "take care of their own" it would solve a great deal. :)

I am in a Southern Baptist Church now, and just last Sunday our pastor stated that any form of racism is not biblical. He got a loud amen from the congregation.

It boils down to the fact that anyone can call them selves Baptist since there's no governing body over the Baptist other than God.

[austin7.62]

I am actually reading the Quran right now....

 

That is not a religion of Peace...

 

They hate Jews and Christians...any way you twist it

And the OT is not violent? 

 

In the OT God condoned violence and total destruction of entire nations, women and children included. Ethnic cleansing?  

 

Muslims hate Jews and Christians because of they have been fighting with them since the days of Issac and Ishmael. 

 

Can you blame the Muslim people for disliking the Jews and the West? The Crusades that took place during the Middle Ages, and Western control of the Middle East are factors that encourage this hate for us. Can you really blame them for hating us after we have abused their resources and remained in their land for all this time? I can't. 

 

I don't have a problem with the shop pulling the targets. Michigan, as noted earlier has a large Muslim population, so it makes common sense for the owner not to piss off many of the locals and potential customers. Is this not the proper capitalist thing to do? lol 

[Rowdy]

 Can you really blame them for hating us after we have abused their resources and remained in their land for all this time? I can't. 

I'm with you up to this point. If you're referring to crude oil, we haven't abused it, we have paid for it at market prices.

[austin7.62]

I'm with you up to this point. If you're referring to crude oil, we haven't abused it, we have paid for it at market prices.

We put the Shah in power in Iran in like 1953? So we could control their oil resources. 

We produce plenty of oil on our own soil, we export too much of it and have to pay their prices! 

[Guest RevScottie]

Wrong! I am from an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church, and they were nothing like that. In fact they made no rules at all.

While I respect your opinion I am not wrong. That is my personal experience with those churches, yours may be different if so you were blessed.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

And the OT is not violent? 

 

In the OT God condoned violence and total destruction of entire nations, women and children included. Ethnic cleansing?  

 

Muslims hate Jews and Christians because of they have been fighting with them since the days of Issac and Ishmael. 

 

Can you blame the Muslim people for disliking the Jews and the West? The Crusades that took place during the Middle Ages, and Western control of the Middle East are factors that encourage this hate for us. Can you really blame them for hating us after we have abused their resources and remained in their land for all this time? I can't. 

 

I don't have a problem with the shop pulling the targets. Michigan, as noted earlier has a large Muslim population, so it makes common sense for the owner not to piss off many of the locals and potential customers. Is this not the proper capitalist thing to do? lol 

You can act like the Muslims were victims during the Crusades, but I don't think that was the case. The Muslims were probably

more the cause of the Crusades than the victims. They were the aggressors. I'm not going to do homework right now, but your

version isn't what I recall.

[Guest ThePunisher]

We put the Shah in power in Iran in like 1953? So we could control their oil resources. 
We produce plenty of oil on our own soil, we export too much of it and have to pay their prices! 

We kept our presence in the Middle East to counter the communist influences of the Russians from taking control of the oil region. Cheap oil was needed to stimulate our economy and for rebuilding war torn Europe. Oil is the lifeblood of economies of the free world, and the US military presence is what guarantees the flow of this oil. Cheap oil began the the realization of globalization of economies.

[austin7.62]

You can act like the Muslims were victims during the Crusades, but I don't think that was the case. The Muslims were probably

more the cause of the Crusades than the victims. They were the aggressors. I'm not going to do homework right now, but your

version isn't what I recall.

There were different reasons behind each specific crusade, and I am not saying that I know them all. I am sure the Muslims were just as equally guilty as the Christians. What I meant was the accumulation of the fighting that took place during the crusades made them even more bitter towards Christians, and I am sure vice versa. You can't say that the Church never did anything wrong either...  

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I'm not going to get into an argument about Christianity with you because those kind of arguments usually get into stupidity real fast, but if

that bunch over there, calling themselves Muslims want to get mad over something and stay mad, so be it. I don't care. We've been fighting

Muslims since around the beginning of this country and I don't think, but I'm not sure of the causality of who is right and who is wrong, but

let them continue to be mad at Christians and Jews. It's in their Bible, must make it have some validity.

 

I just think you are reading some revisionist history if you want to blame their problems on us. We, and Israel have done more positive for

them, without any thanks than they will ever consider. Muslims go to work in Israel every day without fear of reprisal, unlike the terrorism

some of their masters(clerics) preach. I don't have any sympathy toward anyone who has it in their religious teachings to destroy me.

You can believe what you want.

 

Maybe we should adopt their ways and live like we are in the 700-800's. I think not.

 

And that's not good enough by your saying it's just as much our fault as it is theirs. Prove it.

Edited February 13, 2013 by 6.8 AR

[m16ty]

Most Muslims would never harm anyone but they will keep their mouth shut knowing their next door neighbor is planning some sort of terror act. They may publicly denonce it but they won't turn him in. Now I admit there are some crazy Christians out there (westboro baptist comes to mind) but all Christians I know will rat out anybody who is doing something stupid.

 

All relegions have done their fair share of killing in the past to further their cause. I couldn't care less about that now. What I care about is who wants to kill in this present age to futher their cause.

Edited February 13, 2013 by m16ty

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That's a good reason to not trust any of them.

[Guest ThePunisher]

I'm sick and tired of all this political correctness BS.

[TMF]

And the OT is not violent? 

 

In the OT God condoned violence and total destruction of entire nations, women and children included. Ethnic cleansing?  

 

Muslims hate Jews and Christians because of they have been fighting with them since the days of Issac and Ishmael. 

 

Can you blame the Muslim people for disliking the Jews and the West? The Crusades that took place during the Middle Ages, and Western control of the Middle East are factors that encourage this hate for us. Can you really blame them for hating us after we have abused their resources and remained in their land for all this time? I can't. 

 

I don't have a problem with the shop pulling the targets. Michigan, as noted earlier has a large Muslim population, so it makes common sense for the owner not to piss off many of the locals and potential customers. Is this not the proper capitalist thing to do? lol 

 

Hating a group of people for things that occurred long before any of us were born is stupid.  That goes both ways.  If Muslims are still butthurt over the Crusades then they can f*** themselves. 

 

I'm sure modern day Muslims have their legitimate modern day reasons for hating the West, such as the establishment of a Jewish state by the Western powers, then the backing of said state.  Then there is the way we are destroying their Muslim culture by exporting ours.  Then there is the policy of interfering in mid-East politics for the sake of keeping the oil lines open.  All valid concerns of conservative Muslims in the Islamic world. 

 

Of course, I give two craps about that.  I don't care that it pisses them off; we have certain national interests.  I think we need our partnership with Israel more than they need us.  I think we absolutely need to interfere with mid-East politics until such time our economy doesn't depend on oil.  And as far as culture, hell its their youth destroying it, not our exporting of sex and commercialism.  Kinda like how rock and roll "ruined" the youth of the '50s and '60s.  Rock and roll had nothing to do with it, the acceptance by the younger generation did.  Kinda like how silly it is of me to get mad at Justin Beiber for making a generation of pussies... it's not his fault, it's the boys who try to emulate him.

 

What is important is that we recognize who the folks are that hate us and want to work towards our destruction.  September 11th answers that question.  UBL struck a blow for the rest of the Muslim world, even if they didn't know it was coming.  Remember all the video of Muslims cheering in the streets of their dirt poor pissholes on 9/11?  That should tell you something.  They hate us, and they will continue to hate us until our policies change, which they won't due to our strategic interests.  If you don't agree to those strategic interests than you can be the first one to give up everything you own that runs on power and gas/diesel, then move to the woods and live off the grid.  If you expect 350 million Americans to be able to do the same, you're being disingenuous.

 

Their hatred of us is what spawns the fighting youth that is working tirelessly to come up with new and exciting ways to attack our country so that they may spread fear and further cause us to restrict our freedoms and change our way of life.  These people who seek to attack us all are Muslims, and most of them Arab.  When that dynamic changes then you won't see Muslim/Arab targets being sold in gun stores any more.  Until then, pass me some good 'ol Hadji-flage laden targets 'cause I'm going to fill 'em full of holes.... once ammo is affordable again.

Edited February 13, 2013 by TMF

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I am in a Southern Baptist Church now, and just last Sunday our pastor stated that any form of racism is not biblical. He got a loud amen from the congregation.

It boils down to the fact that anyone can call them selves Baptist since there's no governing body over the Baptist other than God.

 

Thanks SWJewellTN

 

Yep the "us versus them" seems to be shifting from race divisions to cultural/theological divisions, which ain't bad at all. Religious folk irrespective of race "hanging together" against non-religious or different-religious folks irrespective of race. So if tolerance of different beliefs and lifestyles can grow some more without losing racial tolerance maybe it will gradually get better.

 

When I was about 12 we lived in Illinois near St Louis in early 1960's when there was a big Southern Baptist worldwide convention held in St Louis so we attended the interminable morning thru evening proceedings for a couple of days because it was so close. Thousands of people in some big indoor auditorium and I was seated in the top balcony "nose bleed" section. I only recall one speaker at the event. A frail stooped aged woman who had worked for decades, her entire adult life as a missionary in africa. She droned on for at least an hour explaining missionary efforts in africa, and my attention drifted and after 50 years I don't recall details of her inspirational message of missionary work. But then after about an hour when she was wrapping up, she finished the sermon in her quavering old-lady voice, explaining how wrong it was that USA white Baptists rarely or never had USA black Baptists in their services, and vice-versa, condemning the whole mess as racist separatism and not a very christian way to behave. Which as best I recall got a great many of the attendees' panties in a wad. As a typical child of the times, little burr-headed redneck kid, I was rather scandalized myself. Hadn't ever thought about it. That last few minutes of her sermon did not go down real well among many attendees, in the early 1960's. It was a different time back then.

 

I'm generally ignorant of all things, and don't misinterpret me as saying muslims are like baptists or vice-versa, but in some ways the SETUP of the way the theology works seems to have similarities. In many religions a priest can dictate fine points of theology to a parishoner, and a bishop can dictate fine points of theology to mere priests, all the way up to the top muck-a-muck in the chain of the command, who can dictate theological interpretation to all the middle-men and common believers.

 

But as you say, Baptists don't operate thataway, though there is a certain level of weirdness that a fella couldn't surpass and still find himself particularly welcome at a baptist church, if he was excessively chatty about his oddball beliefs. Eventually if a fella got too far afield he would find himself more welcome among the unitarians. :) But within certain bounds, the most ignorant fella in the congregation has a right to interpret theology with equal authority as the most famous revered pulpit-thumpers. At least in theory.

 

I have read that it is a kinda similar setup among the muslims. There ain't no muslim pope who interprets the koran for everybody below him. Instead, there are scads of mullahs who I'm not certain there is an official certification procedure, but some people get credence among at least a few muslims that will take what he says seriously. And all these mullahs can declare about any nutty thing and get away with it, except if they go too "out of bounds" and get their heads cut off for their trouble. So in some fashion, it is a similar "disorganized" system as practiced by Baptists. Not that there are necessarily strong theological commonalities. Just the "decentralized" nature of how the thing is carried on.