A Cop's Point of View

[MarkInNashville]

A good friend of mine's son is a Metro Nashville police officer. His dad asked him about what he wanted to know if someone with a carry permit were stopped. This are the officer's statements:

 

1.  He and most other officers he knows appreciate being told you have a gun carry permit and if you are carrying or not.  Definitely tell them if you are carrying!!

2.  He is checking to see if it's a state law that you must tell the police if you have a carry permit. (It is my understanding that Tennessee does not have the requirement, as it is in some other states. It does show that even cops do not know all of the rules - even guys that are a few years out of training).

3.  Until the police run your license they have no idea if you have a carry permit or not, so the advanced warning is a nice courtesy to the officer.

4.  Always have your carry permit with you if you are carrying. Legally you can be arrested for carrying without your permit on you.  This
is rarely enforced, but it is the law.

5.  The police have the right to take your weapon away from you during a stop if they feel it in the best interest of their safety to take it. 
They are required to return it back to you after the stop is completed.

 

The police take guns as a serious threat so don't play around if you are in a situation of being stopped while carrying your weapon. When I took my carry class it was taught by a retired highway patrolman - his suggestion was to keep your hands very firmly on the steering wheel and tell the officer that you have a carry permit (and do NOT say, I have a gun!)

Edited February 9, 2013 by MarkInNashville

[quietmike]

Agreed.

 

In a traffic stop keep your hands on top of the wheel. At your first chance tell the officer you have a carry permit and where the gun is, and wait for him to instruct you further. We're all trained to expect that everyone is armed until we know differently.

If I pull someone over and they tell me they have a permit, I automatically know, chances are I am dealing with a pretty decent person.

[RED333]

My Son, Wife and myself have had this talk, we will tell the LEO that we are carring and we have a HCP.

We will do this as soon as the Leo comes to the car.

 

I feel we should do this as the LEO has a very hard job to that is getting harder all the time.

All that said, we will run into the LEO that will push a bit to hard, something we have to deal with.

Just stay calm, answer the questions(do not lie) and things will work out for the best.

[DaveTN]

There is no duty to notify. If he has “a few” years on the job, he shouldn’t really need to go check that.
 

Having been a Police Officer I will notify. I will do it because I respect them, I want a safe stop for everyone involved, I want them on our side, and the pavement around here gets scalding hot during the summer months.
 

 

[glock55]

I keep my carry permit under my driver license and when the officer asks for my license I give the license and carry permit to him. I also turn on the inside lights and roll both windows down as I am pulling over. I have been stopped twice and both times the officers stated they appreciated the way I reacted. I didn't get a ticket in either case and the second time the officer asked what kind of gun I carried. We had a short glock chat,bid each other a good day and went our separate ways. Your mileage my vary but this approach seems to work for me.

[jtluttrell]

First time I got pulled over after getting my permit was by a Chattanooga city cop. I completely forgot to mention it to him. His backup was a county sheriff's deputy. He came up to my passenger window and asked if I had any weapons (guess he noticed the Glock decal on the Jeep). I told him I had a permit, he asked where my gun was and I told him it was in my Maxpedition Gearslinger in the passenger seat between us. He was really cool about it and just placed my bag on the hood then we had a conversation about Maxpedition bags! He said he wanted a bag to keep his pistol in when he was off duty. 

 

So yeah, now I let 'em know before hand. Still got a ticket though.  :-\

[MarkInNashville]

There is no duty to notify. If he has “a few” years on the job, he shouldn’t really need to go check that.
 

Having been a Police Officer I will notify. I will do it because I respect them, I want a safe stop for everyone involved, I want them on our side, and the pavement around here gets scalding hot during the summer months.

 

LMAO! Never considered that about the asphalt but you are oh-so right!

 

I was a reserve deputy in southern Mississippi (while I was in the Navy) - I learned then to turn on inside lights. Generally I place my hands flat on the dash, palms-up. I WANT the LEO to be happy and feel good, safe and comphy!

[JayC]

Being as I don't want anybody handling my firearms, I won't be informing the officer I have a firearm on my person unless I'm about to be pulled out of the vehicle.  It just drastically reduces the chance the officer will take the firearm and run it...  For oh so many reasons...

 

Hopefully we can get the silly disarm law changed to prevent the firearms from being ran unless they have probable cause the firearm is stolen.

[Makiaveli]

Being as I don't want anybody handling my firearms, I won't be informing the officer I have a firearm on my person unless I'm about to be pulled out of the vehicle.  It just drastically reduces the chance the officer will take the firearm and run it...  For oh so many reasons...

 

Hopefully we can get the silly disarm law changed to prevent the firearms from being ran unless they have probable cause the firearm is stolen.

 

"silly disarm law" 

 

Unless the cop knows you, please explain how he would know you aren't a danger to him or others?

 

Also, I don't get what you mean by "For oh so many reasons". 

 

Next, what are the odds that the cop will damage your gun while running the numbers?

 

Finally, assuming you consent, what is the harm in it being run? Worst case scenario it turns out to be stolen, ie you bought it in a private sale etc. Still would be good for the original owner. So aside from your handling quirk, I don't see the harm in a consensual search.

[Chucktshoes]

I don't see the harm in a consensual search.

There isn't any, he just won't be getting one from me. As I mentioned in another thread, if an officer wants to conduct any sort of search of me or my property, he needs to have PC that he can defend to a judge.

[npgunner]

Been pulled over once or twice with a gun on me. Always rolled the window with hands on steering wheel, told the officer of the situation, and asked how the officer would like me to proceed before moving to get license or anything. Have never had a problem doing it this way. I also share the same luck as glock55, and have never gotten a ticket. One time, the guy stated it was because I had a HCP, the other time because I'm a nurse. I'll take it either way!

[jaymc75]

Is there a reason why the drivers license doesn't say carry permit on it, instead of having a separate piece of paper? 

[Dolomite_supafly]

Carrying a gun is probable cause because anyone who is carrying a firearm in Tennessee is breaking the law. So until he is able to determine that you have a valid HCP he can assume you are breaking the law. And until he is able to determine you have a valid HCP it is perfectly legal for him to secure the gun for his safety.

 

An officer is the only one who can say what level of safety he is comfortable with. Some officers feel safe leaving the gun with the owner while others feel safe removing it. But in the end it is the officer's decision, not the gun owners, whether to remove the firearm from the gun owner's possession.

 

Dolomite

[Guest 6.8 AR]

"silly disarm law" 

 

Unless the cop knows you, please explain how he would know you aren't a danger to him or others?

 

Also, I don't get what you mean by "For oh so many reasons". 

 

Next, what are the odds that the cop will damage your gun while running the numbers?

 

Finally, assuming you consent, what is the harm in it being run? Worst case scenario it turns out to be stolen, ie you bought it in a private sale etc. Still would be good for the original owner. So aside from your handling quirk, I don't see the harm in a consensual search.

It is silly. Since you have a permit you have hopefully given notice to the state that you aren't a threat to anyone except a criminal.

I've been thanked by total strangers who were cops because I was polite and made it known I was armed legally and posed no

threat to them. There is no reason to disarm unless you are acting like an idiot or worse, like some kind of criminal. There is no

reason to be giving a cop a hard time about him doing his job. Giving someone, including a cop, your loaded gun increases the

chance of an accidental discharge and also gives an excuse for an exchange to get escalated if things don't go right. I'd say it's

best to just notify and be a decent citizen, although it's not a requirement. Something to do with honey over vinegar? :D

[Jonnin]

Is there a reason why the drivers license doesn't say carry permit on it, instead of having a separate piece of paper? 

presumably some tiny minority of people who do not drive might want a gun?  In which case the DL becomes a HCP only code, its not that hard to handle, there is an ID only version anyway I think (?).

 

It would make sense to stamp a code on the DL to me, they do that for people with glasses and what vehicle types you can use and so on.

 

I am OK with telling the LEO up to the point that I encounter a jerk.  One jerk will spoil this for me, has not happened yet but disarm me over speeding, I will no longer tell them.  Make up BS laws (you cant have one in the chamber is a common one) and I will stop telling them.  Basically, if they want us to tell them, they better toe the line on respecting our rights and knowing the law.

[JayC]

Well, the disarm law is being broken on a daily basis...  Some departments, and a number of individual officers have stated it is their SOP to disarm all HCP holders they come in contact with at a traffic stop...  That is clearly unlawful under current state law.  I'm not saying that every disarm is unlawful, only that some significant percentage are.

 

"For oh so many reasons" lets detail some of those reasons...

 

1. The officer might damage the firearm

 

2. The officer might have a negligent discharge while handling the firearm

 

3. The officer may very well run the serial number - which in turn is creating a defacto computerized gun database.

 

I don't see the harm in a consensual search either, I'm just not going to give consent.

 

And there is a harm beyond maybe the firearm I purchased might be stolen.  First, the government is prohibited by law from computerizing firearm purchase records...  The only place that lists your name and what firearms you purchased new is sitting at the individual stores where the purchase was made.  And in theory after 20 years those are being destroyed.

 

By running your firearms serial number, make and model  there are creating a de facto computerized gun registry, when your pistol or rifle is ran, it ties that to your ID and a record is kept every time...  That information is not covered under current federal law...

 

So if an officer has probable cause to believe a firearm has been stolen, then they should be able to run it, otherwise they shouldn't.

 

So, yeah I don't want my firearms ran if it can be avoided...  The fact is I haven't been pulled over in nearly 20 years, I seriously doubt that I will have to worry about this happening to me anytime in the near future.  But, it's a bad law and it's being abused on a regular basis.

 

"silly disarm law" 

 

Unless the cop knows you, please explain how he would know you aren't a danger to him or others?

 

Also, I don't get what you mean by "For oh so many reasons". 

 

Next, what are the odds that the cop will damage your gun while running the numbers?

 

Finally, assuming you consent, what is the harm in it being run? Worst case scenario it turns out to be stolen, ie you bought it in a private sale etc. Still would be good for the original owner. So aside from your handling quirk, I don't see the harm in a consensual search.

 

[TMF]

I'm just pleased as punch that I have lived in Tennessee for 10 years and have never been pulled over by an LEO here.

[JayC]

It's not perfectly legal under state law to remove every permit holders firearm for officer safety.  What % of permits are ran and found to not be valid?  Much less than 1%, and 1% doesn't make for reasonable belief under the current law.

 

The law doesn't deal with officer safety, it deals with a reasonable belief this permit holder is a threat to the officers (or others) safety...  any officer who feels that all permit holders are a threat to his safety no longer holds a reasonable belief.

 

And your thoughts don't account for the departments that have a SOP telling officers to disarm all permit holders, how does that jive with current state law?

 

Carrying a gun is probable cause because anyone who is carrying a firearm in Tennessee is breaking the law. So until he is able to determine that you have a valid HCP he can assume you are breaking the law. And until he is able to determine you have a valid HCP it is perfectly legal for him to secure the gun for his safety.

 

An officer is the only one who can say what level of safety he is comfortable with. Some officers feel safe leaving the gun with the owner while others feel safe removing it. But in the end it is the officer's decision, not the gun owners, whether to remove the firearm from the gun owner's possession.

 

Dolomite

 

[E4 No More]

Personally, I hand the officer my license, HCP, insurance, and registration without being asked regardless if I'm carrying or not.

Edited February 11, 2013 by SWJewellTN

[Chadastrophic]

I only inform if the state I'm in requires it, or I've forgot the requirement for that state. I see no reason to give more information than necessary.

Forgot the law in MS so I informed the DOT trooper. MI requires it so I let the cop know. Neither disarmed me.

This is my process when getting pulled over. Radio off, interior lights on, window down, hat and sunglasses off and on the dash, keys on the dash, and hands through the steering wheel with a reverse grip up top.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

How is carrying a perfectly legal gun, by virtue of a the HCP process giving anyone probable cause? That's not even a stretch.

[Chadastrophic]

I don't like the idea of my drivers license being stamped I have a HCP. The people at the bank, restaurant, and grocery stores don't need to know I have my HCP.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Every one of us is breaking Tennessee law when we are carrying our firearms. Right or wrong it is the way the law is written. It is only after they have verified you have a HCP that the defense to breaking the law comes into play.

Dolomite

[Guest kj4gxu]

Dolomite;

   so you're saying that carrying a weapon is always a crime, but having an HCP is just an affirmative defense.  That's an interesting legal conundrum.  Do you by chance know what the relevant statutes are in this, I'd like to look more into it.

Thanks

Eric

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That's an old tedious argument, Gordon. Maybe it is true, but after the permit is let, the argument dries up. Probable

cause has a much higher threshold, and we are not criminals, yet.

 

If, in fact that argument is still valid, we need to all storm the state capitol and demand by force it be changed because it is

just another loophole to allow government intervention where there should be none. Reasonable and proper isn't in it if that's

the case. Making a class of society that is otherwise not a criminal become a criminal in waiting is pure tyranny.

 

If that same class in society will not stand up to that kind of law and demand it be changed, I really wonder whose fault it is?