Results of first loads...join me inside with opinions...

[timcar86]

So I finally got some cartridges loaded and had good weather to try them out. I'd like some opinions on why the loads may have performed they way they did and how you would load going forward.

 

The cartridge:

 

.308 Winchester with 168 gr HPBT Sierra MatchKing bullets. Winchester primers with Accurate 2495 powder. All loaded on a single stage Lee press and all brass was tumbled, sized and trimmed to spec. All bullets were seated to 2.800 COL.

 

The rifle:

Remington 700 SPS Tactical with a Weaver Grand Slam Tactical 3X10 scope on a 20MOA base with TPS rings. Shot prone with a Harris bipod on the front.

 

The results:

I shot the ammo that I usually use first for a control. Hornady 168 gr Z-Max (go ahead and laugh but they're match grade). The Circle in the middle is 1 MOA at 100 yards which is the distance that I shot. All strings of fire were 5 shots.

 

Next was my first set of reloads but at minimum power, 40.1gr

 

Next was 41 gr.

 

42 gr.

 

43 gr

 

44 gr.

 

45 gr.

 

And one more string of Z-Max while the gun was hot.

 

So, there it is. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. Loved the "science experiment" aspect of the whole thing. I believe I'm hooked.

Edited February 8, 2013 by timcar86

[battleop]

I wonder how the 40.1g loads would work after the barrel heats up.  There is quite a difference between the 40.1g and 40g groups.    I am getting ready to start my science experiments as soon as I can decide on and find the right powder to use in my Kimber .223.

[RED333]

Nice shooting, good groups as far as I am shooting.

I dont test much, I find what works best in my rifle and load up a bunch to put up.

 Barrel hot or cold should not come into your tests, as you will never know

what the next shot will bring, I know my Saiga 308 walks up and left as the barrel heats.

So I know how to hold off to fix it. I sight in cold, and use the 'fix" for when it is hot.

Dont know how big your mag is, mine is 10 and 20 round, I try to shoot 10 rounds in less that 1 min.

Barrel gets hot fast after the 2nd mag, fun game, 100 yrds, paper plate, 10 shots, 60 secounds, 3 mags for 3 mins.

You will have to know what you rifle does hot and cold.

[vujade]

my 2 cents:

 

It's not 'fair' to the latter strings since the barrel hot/dirtier/etc. 

 

I'd suggest doing the groups in a round robin fashion:  This is assuming 3 shot groups: (30 seconds to a minute between shots)   Shoot 1 round of 40 grains.  move to the next target.  shoot 1 round of 41.0 grains.  move to the next target.  shoot 1 round of 42. etc. 

 

At the end of that 'first set'.  Let the barrel cool.  Clean the bore. 

 

Pick a random weight and shoot THAT target that corresponds to that weight.  Pick another random weight and shoot THAT target that corresponds to that weight.  and go one until you're done.

 

At the 3nd set.  Let the barrel cool.  clean the bore.  work backwards.  Start at 44.0 grains and shot THAT corresponding target and shoot until the last shot is the first target.

 

This makes it "fair" to all the groups.  You're not 'saving' the last group to when the barrel is most dirty and your eyes are most tired and the barrel is most hot. 

 

I like to load develop with 3 shot groups (cheaper and faster).  Final testing with 5 shot groups (when I've got my weight, OAL, etc.)

 

- don't just look at the smallest groups.  Look at the adjacent groups where there is very little change to POI.

 

- I like to go in .2 or .3 increments.  40.1.  40.3.  40.5. 40.7, etc.   

 

You'll find a sweet spot at the very top and at the low end.  My settled right at 41.9 grains of Varget; 42.1 with RE15/Surplus Match.  1 hole groups (5 shots) all day long at 100.

 

Look up 'Optimal weight charge' test or ladder testing.

[vujade]

a couple more tips:

 

- in the middle session (where I fire random ones to but the same appropriate target), I color the bullet with a sharpie (blue or green or red or something).  It imprints on the targets.  It makes it very easy to know which one is the middle shot. 

 

- Also be careful, I 'draw' my targets as I shoot and label them.  It's easy to get it mixed up.

 

- I noticed you're running with the standard OAL.  I was getting good groups with 2.800 (.50-.75 MOA) but got GREAT groups once I made the rounds "longer".  I'm running them at 2.865 right now.  I believe I'm .030 to the lands.

[Jonnin]

I would make some more of that awesome group stuff and shoot it and nothing else next time out.  See if it does anything different as the gun heats up. 

 

Its interesting to note the second control group is better, I would say significantly (?).  Maybe YOU warmed up too, maybe the gun shot different hot, its hard to say.

[timthetoolman]

I suggest getting a Chamber length gauge and finding the distance to your lands.  From there you can ladder load with a few different lengths so you can find your "sweet length" for you gun.  You can also try a few of these accuracy tips/ tricks. And visit accurate shooter dot com for lots of handy info on your cartridge.

 

Debur flasholes

Neck size fire formed brass instead of full length sizing...this made a large difference for me

Weigh your brass and sort

Weigh your projectiles and sort

Try bench rest primers...doesnt make a big difference for me in 308 or 30-06

Get a chrony and see what your spread is on speeds.

 

Theres lots of other little things, but if your on a budget I would start with the flash holes and weights.  You could try firing from a sand bag front and back as well to take out some inconsistencies instead of a bipod.  I shoot from bipods as well, but i work my loads up on sand bags and a heavy rest out front.

 

Regardless you got some decent looking groups there.  

[leroy]

Tim:____________

 

Good shootin.  Somethin to think about when testing loads.  Back in the "old days" we always would shoot a "fouling shot" then shoot the group.  We would clean with a good cleaning rod usin whatever ya like.  We always used a solid rod, pulled the bolt and cleaned from the chamber to the muzzle with a real good rod (...think deweys or somethin like em...). Then, lots of us liked "JB bore cleaner".  It may have fell out of favor since it is essentially a light abrasive (...very mild...); but we would shoot a five shot string and swab the bore, then run clean patches thru; then shoot again.  Essentially, ya clean after every fouler plus 1 5 shot string..  That lets the barrel cool down a bit (...i doubt you are havin any trouble with that anyway...), plus it keeps a "clean bore" for every fouler plus 5 shot string.  Ya might want to think about this a bit.

 

PS-- It is a truth that every individual likes some individual handload combination best.  Ya are goin about the right way to find it with the "ladder testing".  That's what we did. 

 

Also, there is an old handloadin adage that says that the "best load" is somewhere around the 90% of max loading or up plus the case full of powder.  I've found this to be a truth.  Also, primers do make a difference here.  Ya may want to experiment with them once ya find a promising load.

 

Keep up the good work.

leroy

[gregintenn]

I'd shoot some more groups with each load. Multiple groups with exact loadings will produce different results. I'd keep a special eye on the minimum load, as it looks very promising. As others have said, trying different seating lengths can produce some interesting results.

 

By the way, those groups are nothing to sneeze at! Good shooting. You should be proud.