SAFES...and building a fire safe?

[DaveTN]

I’ve been thinking about a safe and reading some of the threads here. Most seem to be concerned with security. I have little concerns about security; just fire.

So… I’m wondering why I couldn’t use some kind of material to convert a closet (or a big metal box) into a fire safe. Most of these safes under a grand are only good for 20-30 minutes in a fire anyway. As long as my walls didn’t collapse there surely must be some kind of fireproof material that could keep the temp down for that short amount of time.

For those of you that bought these 500-1000 lb safes, did you muscle them into your house yourself or did you hire it out?

I ordered a large toolbox once and a semi showed up at my house with no way to unload it. Luckily I was able to pull my pickup behind the semi and slide it off. But I don’t have anyway to move a safe.

[nightrunner]

you could use fireproof sheetrock and fire-rated caulking at all joints. that is what is used to fireproof between the mulit-unit condo buildings (as per fire code) that i work in sometimes. and anytime we penetrate the wall, you must caulk around it with fire-rated caulking. not sure how long its good for though.

you'd also need some sort of fire rated door.

[dralarms]

Safes are just lines with sheet rock, it is a fire retardant alone. You could build a room, put 3 layers of sheetrock up and seal the room and unless the walls around collapse or the fire started in the room it is pretty well safe.

Now as far as moving a safe, it's pretty easy as long as everything is on 1 level. Take it off the palet it comes on, place pieces of 3/4 in PVC pipe under it and roll around to where you want it.

[Guest SUNTZU]

I’ve been thinking about a safe and reading some of the threads here. Most seem to be concerned with security. I have little concerns about security; just fire.

So… I’m wondering why I couldn’t use some kind of material to convert a closet (or a big metal box) into a fire safe. Most of these safes under a grand are only good for 20-30 minutes in a fire anyway. As long as my walls didn’t collapse there surely must be some kind of fireproof material that could keep the temp down for that short amount of time.

For those of you that bought these 500-1000 lb safes, did you muscle them into your house yourself or did you hire it out?

I ordered a large toolbox once and a semi showed up at my house with no way to unload it. Luckily I was able to pull my pickup behind the semi and slide it off. But I don’t have anyway to move a safe.

Try this link for firewalls. http://www.pdhonline.org/courses/g125/g125.htm

There are more good links at the bottom of the page.

If you are just wanting fire protection in a closet, I would sandwich the walls and ceiling with four layers of 5/8 sheetrock. Is the closet on the ground floor? Do you have a concrete floor? If not, you will need to protect the floor of the closet with sheetrock as well. I would suggest using a ground floor closet that doesn't have a crawlspace underneath it if possible. You will have to protect all of the floor joists to keep the floor from giving way in case of fire. If the floor moves, so will the walls of the closet, thus negating the four layers of sheetrock. Four layers of 5/8 sheetrock will give you 2 hrs. of protection.

Here is a good link to pictures of firewalls that survived the fire.

http://www.usg.com/navigate.do?resource=/USG_Marketing_Content/usg.com/web_files/resources/case_studies/Firewall_Stands_Up-CSD.htm

Hope this helps, let me know if you need more information.

suntzu

[Guest utarch00]

I have a 550lb fire safe and I did muscle it into place myself. I figured how hard can it be, I'll just slide it most of the way and I have the appliance dolly to help. Then I started to move it and realized why there were three guys that put it in the car.

I would suggest you get some friends to help.

[Guest Fuel]

you could use fireproof sheetrock and fire-rated caulking at all joints. that is what is used to fireproof between the mulit-unit condo buildings (as per fire code) that i work in sometimes. and anytime we penetrate the wall, you must caulk around it with fire-rated caulking. not sure how long its good for though.

you'd also need some sort of fire rated door.

The company I work for sells fire stopping materials. The "fire caulk" you refer to is really more of a smoke seal. Designed to keep people from dying from smoke inhalation. Not sure how long it's lasts before fire will take it out.

[Im Neero]

Safes really aren't that hard to move. Use a 4 wheel dolly, not a 2 wheel, and you'll be fine.

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

I bought a Sturdy Safe with fire lining. Eventually, I'll place this safe in a fire resistant room I'm building.

http://www.sturdysafe.com/

Only media safes offer any real fire protection, and only bank-type safes offer any protection from a determined thief. The fire-lined Sturdy Safe is good protection against mediocre thieves and the average house fire in a rancher like mine.

[DaveTN]

I bought a Sturdy Safe with fire lining. Eventually, I'll place this safe in a fire resistant room I'm building.

http://www.sturdysafe.com/

Thanks for the link.

I had to go through and look at every safe they had.

[Guest Phantom6]

More often than not, fire-proofing a cabinet or a closet (or buying a fire-resistant lined safe) won't help you at all if you call the FD. By the time they get into your home and fling all their water around your guns will be ruined by the rust throughout them, especially in the internals. In most cases unless they can get in and knock the fire down in 5- 10 minutes it takes hours and hours of cooling time before you can get into an area that was heated to 1800- 2500 degrees and that allows for a lot of rust on everything. You can certainly protect your guns from the flames and to an extent the heat for a period of time but when the FD is spraying vast amounts of water into the area trying to knock down the fire there is a tremendous amount of water vapor being created in the form of (High temp. + water=) steam. That vapor permiates every little crack and will easily penetrate the door of your safe. Of course you could do like the Russians did with their tanks and put in a fire supression system that would near instantly fill your tank .....ah, er .... your home with a fire supression material that would extinguish any type of fire. Great for the tanks but it sucked to be a crew member but that's ok 'cause they had lots of replacements they could put into their tanks. God help you though if you let the bacon go a little long on Saturday morning and the smoke detector went off. IMOH you are far better off buying insurance and being carefull matches (and cooking).

BTW I'm not a fireman, don't play one on TV and didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night but this is a conversation that I have had several times with some fireman friends and rather than spending time and money trying to re-invent the wheel I tend to listen to experts that I know. If you know a fireman ask their opinion of your "safe project".

As far as moving a safe, I would pay to have that done. It beats the medical bills in case someone gets hurt. Most companies will deliver and install your safe for 75-100 bucks. That's a cheap price to pay considering what emergency rooms charge to see a patient today.

[Volzfan]

I had a friend that bought a lesser weight safe and after he got it where he wanted it he put around 500lbs of lead in the bottom.

[DaveTN]

BTW I'm not a fireman, don't play one on TV and didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night but this is a conversation that I have had several times with some fireman friends and rather than spending time and money trying to re-invent the wheel I tend to listen to experts that I know. If you know a fireman ask their opinion of your "safe project".

You are correct. I have been reading information written by those that seem to know what they are talking about, and talking to some people. The popular opinion seems to be that a gun safe is to secure weapons; it will not protect them in a fire. I can buy a safe that will protect them (or anything else) but it would cost as much or more than the guns I would be putting in it.

Maybe I’ll just add a rider to my insurance policy and call it a day.

[Guest jackdog]

insurance rider is the real answer as far as I concerned. Theft I'm not very worried about. Fire. Well by the time they get here it will be just to watch the final burn.