Memphis renames city parks that honored Confederacy

[Chucktshoes]

Different perspective here. I'm not looking at the historic our racial aspect. What I see is another push back by the Memphis city government against the state government. The first was when state legislators decided that they would intervene in the school merger debacle. The city schools surrendered their charter forcing the county to runall of the schools.

This is the second push back. State legislators heard about the proposed changes and planned to introduce a bill preventing such actions. The city of Memphis response was rushed and proactive to ensure that the changes were made prior to the state taking action.

I'm not saying it's right, but I see and understand why it was done. I hear so much about limited government on this site. Well, this happens to be a municipality pushing back against the state trying to tell it (the city of Memphis) how to run it's business.

I think the continued debate of renaming these parks is completely asinine. That being said, links2k is correct. The city council rushed through this action to prevent from being able to in the future. Right or wrong, the names or even existence of local parks is a local matter. If the state wants to acquire the property from the city of Memphis, make it a state park and take over paying for the care and maintenance, then they get a say in the the name of the park, not until then. Edited February 7, 2013 by Chucktshoes

[JPR1959]

I can remember watching the bridge being built standing in Confederate Park. I used to love playing on the cannons. Times change, but history does not. Very poor decision by the city government.

[Chucktshoes]

I can remember watching the bridge being built standing in Confederate Park. I used to love playing on the cannons. Times change, but history does not. Very poor decision by the city government.

I agree. It is a terrible decision, but it is and should remain the city's decision.

*I am not implying that you addressed that at all in your post, just using your statement as a vehicle to restate my point in a slightly different way. *

[Guest PapaB]

State legislators heard about the proposed changes and planned to introduce a bill preventing such actions.

 

According to your statement, Memphis was going to do this anyhow. If that's true, how is it the States fault? Your statement says the actions of the State only sped up the process.

 

I don't view this as a limited government issue between city and state because it involves the history of our country, a much bigger issue imho. This should have, at a minimum, put on a referendum for the voters to decide, not the politicians. I suspect the motive was less about limited government and more about racism.

 

As one who was, appologetically, born and raised in New England, I can honestly say that what Memphis did offends me greatly. The heritage of the Confederacy, and their great contribution to the history of the United States, should be appreciated and respected by all Americans, especially in the south. The erosion of that heritage harms us all because we lose an important part of who we are. This is no different than removing the Confederate flag from public view, and it's just as wrong.

Edited February 7, 2013 by PapaB

[1morethan8]

I'll just stay on this end of Tennessee.

 

I believe Memphis has a time bomb just up river that's ticking....

that "bomb" is called New Madrid fault.

[Guest copperhead_1911]

General Forrest was one of the best ever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7dZk5g9Hl4

 

 

How is it he gets slammed because he was a founder of the Ku Klux Klan ( which was just a fraternity back then before it became a hate group) yet Obama takes no heat for being a part of the hate groups known as the congressional black caucus and NAACP?

 

We keep giving this pc crowd their way it wont just be confederate heroes they will target. One day we will have people who want to remove all images of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Andrew Jackson and a majority of our founders because they owned slaves.

[Guest copperhead_1911]

I'll just stay on this end of Tennessee.

 

I believe Memphis has a time bomb just up river that's ticking....

that "bomb" is called New Madrid fault.

IN fairness I honestly believe in a way that removing our great General's name from that cesspool is more of an honor than they realize. In a way it dishonors great men like him to have places like that with his name.

 

 

Trivia

 

Streets named after what person are some of the most violent in the nation?

 

Martin Luther King jr.

 

http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2012/01/17/mlk-usa-many-king-streets-stuck-on-economic-outskirts/

[Guest Keal G Seo]

the winners write the history books.  Just wrapping up a few loose ends here, I guess?

 

I would bet you could ask any 20 year old in the country, of any race, from any state, who exactly was jefferson davis and 1/50 might know.  Ask them who forest was and that becomes 1 / 10000.   Hard to be offended by something you do not even know what is, but somehow, they managed it.

Not true, if you ask "Who was Forest?" they all know he was the Vietnam vet who founded Bubba Gump Shrimp!  :rofl:

The sad part is if they waited another 40-50 years till at my generation was mostly gone, no one would be left to care...then again I'd wager at least half my generation doesn't know of either of them.

[Guest TankerHC]

These are the same folks how threw a fit about the master/slave configuration on hard disk drives. Jumper's got feelings too!

 

Cable select, you are the affirmative action of the IT world!

 

All these years on computers and not once had I ever thought of that. Learn something new every day. 

[Handsome Rob]

Can't we just move the fence 200 miles this way & give it to Arkansas?

[Will Carry]

It is a little known fact that the Union occupation forces in West Tennessee were wrought with corruption. They did great injustice to Tennesseans living in the area.  The union commander of Fort Pillow (Lionel Booth) was a known scoundrel involved in smuggling, extortion, thievery and barbaric acts against civilians.  He occupied Fort Pillow against Grant's orders and used it as a base of operations for his criminal gang. You never here this part of history because the winners get to write their version. Lionel Booth was not his real name, he changed it to keep his own family members from hunting him down. Booth died at the battle of Fort Pillow.

 

  Forest tried to stop the massacre but it had gotten out of hand. A group of union soldiers who had surrendered decided they wanted to UNsurrender, in the confusion of battle and the burning hatred of Forrest's men, it was hence called a massacre. A union army investigation cleared Forrest and his men of any wrong doing, but history did not.

 

 Forrest once said to General Steven Lee, after Lee had lost a battle, "Don't feel bad general. If I had me a West Point education, the Yankees would be whippin' me too."  Forrest's tactics were studied in detail by a young German officer named Erwin Rommel.....

Edited January 11, 2014 by Will Carry

[RobertNashville]

I will freely admit that after living in Tennessee going on 18 years now, plus my own study, visiting Gettysburg as an adult, etc...my overall view of the civil war has altered somewhat. It's altered at least to the extent that I have a much better understanding of some of the philosophical and economic currents that precipitated it.

 

That said, there is the very simple truth that at one time in this country, one man could actually "own" another as one would own a cow or a horse, It was a despicable thing and a stain on our country's history and, rightly or wrongly, that stain is inevitably linked to our civil war. That being the case, I think it is at least understandable (even if also regrettable) that cities and governments and groups would like to "forget" our history and eradicate reminders of participation by those states that seceded.

[RobertNashville]

All these years on computers and not once had I ever thought of that. Learn something new every day. 

I heard of it a few years ago...but it didn't change how I use the terms in the IT work I do. :)

[Guest TankerHC]

I will freely admit that after living in Tennessee going on 18 years now, plus my own study, visiting Gettysburg as an adult, etc...my overall view of the civil war has altered somewhat. It's altered at least to the extent that I have a much better understanding of some of the philosophical and economic currents that precipitated it.

 

That said, there is the very simple truth that at one time in this country, one man could actually "own" another as one would own a cow or a horse, It was a despicable thing and a stain on our country's history and, rightly or wrongly, that stain is inevitably linked to our civil war. That being the case, I think it is at least understandable (even if also regrettable) that cities and governments and groups would like to "forget" our history and eradicate reminders of participation by those states that seceded.

 

Go read the orders from General Winfield Scott on the plaques at the Indian Removal Memorial in Meigs County. Then read the letter Lincoln wrote to Horace Greeley after Greeley's complaints about the treatment of the slaves.

 

Wrong? Yes. Truth yes.  Deserving of modern day sympathy. No. 

Edited January 11, 2014 by TankerHC

[DaveTN]

Nathan Bedford Forrest is buried in that park. Are they going to move his burial site or just continue to allow the kids to vandalize the grave, now that they have “reeducated” them about history so as to fit their agenda?

[RobertNashville]

Go read the orders from General Winfield Scott on the plaques at the Indian Removal Memorial in Meigs County. Then read the letter Lincoln wrote to Horace Greeley after Greeley's complaints about the treatment of the slaves.

 

Wrong? Yes. Truth yes.  Deserving of modern day sympathy. No. 

I'm aware of both but what do they have to do with my comments you quoted?

 

I'm simply saying that slavery is associated with the civil war and it doesn't really matter how appropriately or inappropriately the association. Given that association, it shouldn't be surprising to anyone that reminders of the civil war are being and will continue to be removed.

Edited January 11, 2014 by RobertNashville

[Will Carry]

   It's really hard to judge people who lived 150 years ago, by today's, politically corrected, standards. Is it possible to study the past without forming some kind of opinions? Probably not.

 

    One of the reason's the southern colonies rebelled against the king of England was that the king was on the verge of abolishing slavery in his colonies. The rich southern aristocracy had amassed tremendous wealth and power through King Cotton and they did not want their system threatened. 

 

   Had the south successfully seceded from the union, how long would slavery have lasted?  King Cotton was a flash in the pan. The south didn't have much topsoil to begin with and cotton was ruining what there was. Before the Civil War you could travel from Atlanta to Montgomery and it would be one great cotton field after another. Now that soil is so bad it will hardly grow pines, scrub maple and briars. Much of it has been converted to pasture land because nothing else will grow there.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Will Carry

[R_Bert]

   It's really hard to judge people who lived 150 years ago, by today's, politically corrected, standards. Is it possible to study the past without forming some kind of opinions? Probably not.

 

    One of the reason's the southern colonies rebelled against the king of England was that the king was on the verge of abolishing slavery in his colonies. The rich southern aristocracy had amassed tremendous wealth and power through King Cotton and they did not want their system threatened. 

 

   Had the south successfully seceded from the union, how long would slavery have lasted?  King Cotton was a flash in the pan. The south didn't have much topsoil to begin with and cotton was ruining what there was. Before the Civil War you could travel from Atlanta to Montgomery and it would be one great cotton field after another. Now that soil is so bad it will hardly grow pines, scrub maple and briars. Much of it has been converted to pasture land because nothing else will grow there.

 

Ironically, it was person likely born into slavery (Some say January 1864) who resurrected the economy of the South - George Washington Carver.

[tnguy]

General Forrest was one of the best ever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7dZk5g9Hl4

 

 

How is it he gets slammed because he was a founder of the Ku Klux Klan ( which was just a fraternity back then before it became a hate group) yet Obama takes no heat for being a part of the hate groups known as the congressional black caucus and NAACP?

 

We keep giving this pc crowd their way it wont just be confederate heroes they will target. One day we will have people who want to remove all images of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Andrew Jackson and a majority of our founders because they owned slaves.

 

He also disbanded it when he thought it was getting too extreme. You don't hear that mentioned often.
 

[Spiffy]

The problem is Memphis is pretty much not capable of running its own city and Shelby Co Govt is almost just as bad.  We have the highest county property tax in the state of TN and of course put the different town property taxes with our county property tax it is still the highest in TN.  And what do we get for it?  Not a lot in return if you don't get all the freebies Memphis and Shelby have to offer.

 

John Wayne had something to say about facts like these.

[Guest copperhead_1911]

I'm aware of both but what do they have to do with my comments you quoted?

 

I'm simply saying that slavery is associated with the civil war and it doesn't really matter how appropriately or inappropriately the association. Given that association, it shouldn't be surprising to anyone that reminders of the civil war are being and will continue to be removed.

You make a fair point, but it is only disgraces to their heritage that allow it. Do you think Obama would be president if all those white liberals like Ted Kennedy did not support him?

 

We give away too much and I am sick of giving away our heritage.

 

They want to do away with the confederacy they will have to cut the hearts out of many who will always have a place for it.

[Guest copperhead_1911]

He also disbanded it when he thought it was getting too extreme. You don't hear that mentioned often.
 

I actually knew that. Most people also would never admit there were blacks in Dixie who worked with the original klan as most of them did not like them yankee agitators anymore than we did. You never hear about how many slave women Sherman's troops raped and so forth.

 

Slavery was horrible but there were many white/black friendships even back then and mutual assistance of each other.

[RobertNashville]

You make a fair point, but it is only disgraces to their heritage that allow it. Do you think Obama would be president if all those white liberals like Ted Kennedy did not support him?

 

We give away too much and I am sick of giving away our heritage.

 

They want to do away with the confederacy they will have to cut the hearts out of many who will always have a place for it.

Again, I'm not in any way suggesting that the civil war should engender these feelings; I'm only recognizing that it does engender them. 

[Guest copperhead_1911]

Again, I'm not in any way suggesting that the civil war should engender these feelings; I'm only recognizing that it does engender them. 

 

The problem is that like my t-shirt says

 

"If this flag offends you then you need a history lesson"

 

If more people learned about history we would not have that problem. Next thing the NAACP will want to change Old Glory because it flew over every slave ship that came to America once it was a country except maybe one. It also was at far more slave auctions and was the flag that flew many more years than the stars and bars during legal slavery in the country.

 

Give an inch they push for a mile. I personally am sick of it

[RobertNashville]

The problem is that like my t-shirt says
 
"If this flag offends you then you need a history lesson"
 
If more people learned about history we would not have that problem. Next thing the NAACP will want to change Old Glory because it flew over every slave ship that came to America once it was a country except maybe one. It also was at far more slave auctions and was the flag that flew many more years than the stars and bars during legal slavery in the country.
 
Give an inch they push for a mile. I personally am sick of it

That's all well and good but what exactly are you going to do about it?

I'm sick to death of political correctness. I'm disgusted that people know so little about history. I hate that our public school system is nothing more than indoctrination centers for the next wave of socialism. But I long-ago reconciled myself for the simple fact that I can only control "me". I can't stop the world from engaging in political correctness nor can I horsefeed people correct historical facts or control how the public school system is run. I can control myself and I can support organizations that fight against this stupidity. Other than that I'm at a loss for what else I can do.