HB118/SB142: Current "parking lot" legislation

[Guest 270win]

You speak the truth.  I have a business so this only slightly helps me when I go to Univ of Memphis for a conference and as far as I can tell IF driving my own car I can leave my gun loaded in the glovebox.

 

If the legislature was going to decriminalize things and not affect company policy, the legislature might as well have just legalized carry in schools, past signs, and all parks but still of course allow those who control those locations to ask people to leave when discovered.

[southernasylum]

I know a lot of folks don't care for this bill but dang, when is it going to get signed into law?

 

-southernasylum

[Oh Shoot]

I know a lot of folks don't care for this bill but dang, when is it going to get signed into law?

 

-southernasylum

 

Got 10 days not counting Sundays to sign or veto. If he does nothing it becomes law too.

 

But doesn't matter, since it doesn't take effect till July1 anyway.

 

- OS

[southernasylum]

Got 10 days not counting Sundays to sign or veto. If he does nothing it becomes law too.

But doesn't matter, since it doesn't take effect till July1 anyway.

- OS

OK. Thanks. I don't remember reading that. It's been a while since I read the bill.
I know it's far from perfect but I have a school aged daughter and my wife works at Vanderbilt. With school functions, visits with the wife and doctor and dental appointments at least I can legally have my gun in the car when this takes effect. Hopefully we can continue to move in the right direction towards 2A rights. I'd much prefer constitutional carry but pragmatically, that ain't happening anytime soon. Some pie > no pie.

-southernasylum

[Guest PapaB]

What I most dislike about this bill isn't what's in it (or not in it). What I dislike most about it is that the politicians will proclaim their work is done and they don't need to address this issue again for several years. Improvements in this are going to require we change the legislature to one that's actually conservative, forget about the D or R. Of course, that's something we really need to do anyhow.

[Gary Slider]

I am trying to understand the Parking Lot Storage Bill the best I can. I am going to add this to the Tennessee page at

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/tennessee.pdf

 

I would appreciate any feedback on the wording especially the NOTE at the end of the posting. I am still not sure how the law applies to parking lots that are posted, "No Firearms."  Thank you for any assistance you can give

Handgunlaw.us in this matter.

 

 

 

Parking Lot Storage Law

 

 

39-17-1313.   (This law becomes effective 7/1/13.)

 

(a) Notwithstanding §§ 39-17-1309, 39-17-1311, or § 39-17-1359, unless expressly prohibited by federal law, the holder of a valid handgun carry permit recognized in Tennessee may transport and store a firearm or firearm ammunition in the permit holder’s privately-owned motor vehicle, as defined in § 55-1-103, while on or utilizing any public or private parking area if:

     (1) The permit holder’s vehicle is parked in a location where it is permitted to be; and

     (2) The firearm or ammunition being transported or stored in the vehicle:

          (A) Is kept from ordinary observation if the permit holder is in the motor vehicle; or

          ( B ) Is kept from ordinary observation and locked within the trunk, glove box, or interior of the     

                person’s privately owned motor vehicle or a container securely affixed to such vehicle if the    

                permit holder is not in the vehicle.

 

( b ) No business entity, public or private employer, or the owner, manager, or legal possessor of the property shall be held liable in any civil action for damages, injuries or death resulting from or arising out of another’s actions involving a firearm or ammunition transported or stored in accordance with subsection (a) unless the business entity, public or private employer, or the owner, manager, or legal possessor of the property commits an offense involving the use of the stored firearm or ammunition or intentionally solicits or procures the conduct resulting in the damage, injury or death. Nor shall a business entity, public or private employer, or the owner, manager, or legal possessor of the property be responsible for the theft of a firearm or ammunition stored "by the holder of a valid handgun carry permit in the permit holder's privately-owned motor vehicle".

 

(c) For purposes of this section:

     (1) “Parking area” means any property provided by a business entity, public or private employer, or the    

            owner, manager, or legal possessor of the property for the purpose of permitting its invitees,

            customers, clients or employees to park privately-owned motor vehicles; and

     (2) “Parking area” does not include the grounds or property of a owner-occupied, single-family detached    

            residence, or a tenant-occupied single-family detached residence.

 

Note: My understanding of the law is that you can store a firearm in a public or private parking area and not be breaking any laws. The law is specific that the vehicle must be the “permit holder’s privately-owned motor vehicle.”  The law also does not cover workplaces that have rules against employee’s having firearms on their property or in their vehicles. If your employee has such a rule this law will not protect you from being fired but only from breaking a state law.

[Oh Shoot]

... My understanding of the law is that you can store a firearm in a public or private parking area and not be breaking any laws. The law is specific that the vehicle must be the “permit holder’s privately-owned motor vehicle.”  The law also does not cover workplaces that have rules against employee’s having firearms on their property or in their vehicles. If your employee has such a rule this law will not protect you from being fired but only from breaking a state law.

 

Sounds like an accurate enough summation to me.

 

The biggest change it really makes is that permit holders can stash their loaded heaters in their vehicle on school property, including students. Even out of state students. Of course, they too could fire staff or expel students, but I'm betting in the case of colleges the fear of bad press will be enough to deter that.

 

At any rate, this removes the only felony a permit holder could get for mere possession of a loaded legal weapon in his vehicle in this state, and that's relatively significant.

 

As far as getting fired or expelled, the rock solid defense is simply "mum's the word".

 

- OS

[Gary Slider]

Would this be better wording for the last two sentences?

 

Origninal Wording:  The law also does not cover workplaces that have rules against employee’s having firearms on their property or in their vehicles. If your employee has such a rule this law will not protect you from being fired but only from breaking a state law.

 

New wording: The law also does not cover workplaces (Including Schools/Colleges/Universities) that have rules against Employee’s/Students having firearms on their property or in their vehicles. If your Employee/School has such a rule this law will not protect you from being Fired/Expelled but only from breaking a state law.

 

I am also going to change the first sentence to: My understanding of the law is that a valid permitlicense holder can store a firearm in a public or private parking area and not be breaking any laws.  (Removing "you" and replacing it with the bold.

[rockman6]

Not sure what this senate letter means now though...

[Oh Shoot]

Would this be better wording for the last two sentences?

 

Origninal Wording:  The law also does not cover workplaces that have rules against employee’s having firearms on their property or in their vehicles. If your employee has such a rule this law will not protect you from being fired but only from breaking a state law.

 

New wording: The law also does not cover workplaces (Including Schools/Colleges/Universities) that have rules against Employee’s/Students having firearms on their property or in their vehicles. If your Employee/School has such a rule this law will not protect you from being Fired/Expelled but only from breaking a state law.

 

I am also going to change the first sentence to: My understanding of the law is that a valid permitlicense holder can store a firearm in a public or private parking area and not be breaking any laws.  (Removing "you" and replacing it with the bold.

 

Just noticed you're the Gary Slider from handgunlaw.us! (I'm bad about not reading sigs and was beginning to think you were a student writing a paper) :)

 

Welcome, and a general thank you very much for that site. I often recommend it and always mention that the site stays up on things, often even quicker than the actual state gov sites do when changes occur. So now I see why!

 

At any rate, I'll let others chime in, but yeah, the above sounds pert gud. ;)

 

As far as the "valid permit holder", you might mention there that includes ALL permit holders from any state, as TN recognizes all other states' permits (which fact I know you do indeed have documented under the Tennessee PDF). Or maybe that's not even necessary, your call of course.

 

Again, welcome to TGO.

 

- OS

 

edit: check back around 6-9 pm when the place really heats up, you'll probably have lots of input by then.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[E4 No More]

A law without teeth...how original. All that time and effort accomplishing nothing. I think I'll vote dummycrat from now on. At least I know what I'm getting.

[Gary Slider]

Oh Shoot,

 

Thank you for the kind words. They are very much appreciated. As you can see I have 4 posts. I don't post much only when I am seeking information. I do check in and look for anything that may be of value to Handgunlaw.us. Been a member for over 6 years and only 4 posts. So you see I post alot. Chat forums are a good place to pick up something that has changed. I know where to look once I know something has changed. Its just knowing when to look.

 

Going with Valid permit/license holder so that would be everyone.

[Gary Slider]

OK I had a spelling/grammar error in the first edition of the note. Had employee when it should have been employer. Here is what I have for the note Now.

 

 

Parking Lot Storage Law

 

39-17-1313.   (This law becomes effective 7/1/13.)

 

(a) Notwithstanding §§ 39-17-1309, 39-17-1311, or § 39-17-1359, unless expressly prohibited by federal law, the holder of a valid handgun carry permit recognized in Tennessee may transport and store a firearm or firearm ammunition in the permit holder’s privately-owned motor vehicle, as defined in § 55-1-103, while on or utilizing any public or private parking area if:

     (1) The permit holder’s vehicle is parked in a location where it is permitted to be; and

     (2) The firearm or ammunition being transported or stored in the vehicle:

          (A) Is kept from ordinary observation if the permit holder is in the motor vehicle; or

          ( B ) Is kept from ordinary observation and locked within the trunk, glove box, or interior of the     

                person’s privately owned motor vehicle or a container securely affixed to such vehicle if the    

                permit holder is not in the vehicle.

 

( b ) No business entity, public or private employer, or the owner, manager, or legal possessor of the property shall be held liable in any civil action for damages, injuries or death resulting from or arising out of another’s actions involving a firearm or ammunition transported or stored in accordance with subsection (a) unless the business entity, public or private employer, or the owner, manager, or legal possessor of the property commits an offense involving the use of the stored firearm or ammunition or intentionally solicits or procures the conduct resulting in the damage, injury or death. Nor shall a business entity, public or private employer, or the owner, manager, or legal possessor of the property be responsible for the theft of a firearm or ammunition stored "by the holder of a valid handgun carry permit in the permit holder's privately-owned motor vehicle".

 

( c ) For purposes of this section:

     (1) “Parking area” means any property provided by a business entity, public or private employer, or the    

            owner, manager, or legal possessor of the property for the purpose of permitting its invitees,

            customers, clients or employees to park privately-owned motor vehicles; and

     (2) “Parking area” does not include the grounds or property of a owner-occupied, single-family detached    

            residence, or a tenant-occupied single-family detached residence.

 

Note: My understanding of the law is that a valid permit/license holder can store a firearm in a public or private parking area and not be breaking any laws. The law is specific that the vehicle must be the “permit holder’s privately-owned motor vehicle.”  The law also does not cover workplaces (Including Schools/Colleges/Universities) that have rules against Employees/Students having firearms on their property or in their vehicles. If your Employer/School has such a rule this law will not protect you from being Fired/Expelled but only from breaking a state law.

Edited March 19, 2013 by Gary Slider

[JayC]

We could only hope that a state ran college expells a student for having a legally owned firearm, legally stored in their vehicle...  That likely would result in the legislature taking away their ability to prevent firearms on college campuses state wide in short order.

[Worriedman]

We could only hope that a state ran college expells a student for having a legally owned firearm, legally stored in their vehicle...  That likely would result in the legislature taking away their ability to prevent firearms on college campuses state wide in short order.

Never happen.  The Powers that be are fully under the direction of the Board of Regents, and they will never let firearms on campus without repercussions, never.  They MUST have control.

[Oh Shoot]

Never happen.  The Powers that be are fully under the direction of the Board of Regents, and they will never let firearms on campus without repercussions, never.  They MUST have control.

 

They could decide that bad press for expelling students or firing staff/profs over legal behavior isn't worth it.

 

There's also a bit of added nuance for state universities, taking TN funds, yet zapping TN residents who are in compliance with a TN law precisely enacted to give them the right to do it?

 

 

- OS

Edited March 21, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Guest 270win]

I don't see what would keep a TN college or school from firing students or employees with firearms.  I know in Arkansas it is not against the law to possess a long gun for any reason on a college campus, but the school can expel you for violating policy.

[Sky King]

I know this is an old topic/thread but I just wanted to let folks know that I never got any response from Chris Cox to the letter I sent.  I guess I would have been really surprised if I had.  I still don't like this bill, I tell everybody who asks me that I don't like this bill.  I get asked a lot at work by co-workers who know I have worked on this and I tell them they can will still get fired if caught with a firearm in their car. 

 

The idea by our legislators that it will intice employers to revise or rethink policies that ban firearms is a pipe dream.  The often stated "promise" to revisit the bill if employers across the state start terminating or taking action against employees who take advantage of this new law is nothing but smoke and mirrors.  A tactic to get the pro-gun people off their backs.  The General Assembly has not revisited the parks law, what makes people think they will ever revisit this.

[rmiddle]

Is a locked car like a safe?

Would one need a search warrant to search my car?

 

Unless a police office has "probable cause" he can't search your vehicle unless you give him permission.  However in this case the company is making a policy that if you want to work for them you will grant them permission to search your vehicle.  If they ask to search you vehicle you can refuse and they can't search your vehicle however they CAN fire you right on the spot for violating your terms of employment.  I have never worked for an  employer that had such a policy but it sounds like they exist.  The only real fix is to prohibiting at-will searches and requiring employers to meet certain legal requirements before they could search.  It wouldn't stop an employer from getting rid of you because they suspect you were keeping a gun in your car but nothing will really every stop that.

 

Thanks

Robert

[rmiddle]

So, you're saying I'm unable to figure out if a person is experienced enough to cut my hair without a license from the government?  That I can't ask my friends and family for a good place to get my hair cut?  That word wouldn't get out if a business hired barbers that cut off ears?  Just how much training does a barber need to have to be certain they can safely not cut my ear off?

 

I can tell you in TN, 1500 HOURS!  Do you really think somebody needs 1500 hours of training to cut my hair?  Should I not be able to choose a self taught barber with less formal training but an apprenticeship from a highly qualified barber?   Well the state of TN says you can't, they must go to an approved barber training school and don't even get me started on all the stupid requirements to run such a school.

 

Now, why is it we need all these regulations, who is really helped by all of these regulations?  Because to me it sure doesn't look like the citizens of TN.

 

As far as FAA requirements, we can discuss at length how that system makes us safer some other day, my vote it does very little to nothing.

 

And we're in complete agreement that our legislators and judges continue to ignore the obvious.

 

Maryland allows people to apprentice for 2 years instead of having the 1500 hours http://www.dllr.state.md.us/license/cos/coslicreq.shtml.  Sounds like Tennessee is more strict them the people Republic of Maryland strange.  Remember hair stylist do more then cut hair they also use industrial chemical on people hair.  Doing something wrong can seriously hurt someone.  I agree just having a piece of paper doesn't make them good at cutting but in theory they should at least have the knowledge to not do something stupid and hurt someone.

 

Thanks

Robert 

Edited March 24, 2015 by rmiddle

[rmiddle]

You're definitely right. What makes this more pathetic is the fact People Like Us are the most informed voters out there. These politicians spamming us is useless. We lose our privacy for nothing, and they don't even gain anything either. Lose-lose.

 

Have you noticed the number of people asking you for money?  There are voter lists and there are donor lists.  People who take the time to CC are more likely to contribute to people who at least say they are pro 2a.

[Garufa]

Have you noticed the number of people asking you for money?  There are voter lists and there are donor lists.  People who take the time to CC are more likely to contribute to people who at least say they are pro 2a.

 

Have you noticed you're talking to people from two years ago in a topic regarding legislation also from two years ago?

[rmiddle]

Have you noticed you're talking to people from two years ago in a topic regarding legislation also from two years ago?

 

Nope.  Someone else must have pulled the thread up from the graveyard.  It showed up as new messages to me.

 

Thanks

Robert

[Oh Shoot]

Nope.  Someone else must have pulled the thread up from the graveyard.  It showed up as new messages to me.

 

Thanks

Robert

 

Dunno why lit up as new, your #219 is what resurrected it.

 

- OS