Knoxville Convention Center Carry

[Guest drewmn186]

-Is Knoxville Convention Center off limits?

 

I did some pretty extensive googling and searching here on the forum, but I couldn't find a definitive answer.

I'm not sure if it is considered to be a part of the worlds fair park, (which is covered under city ordinance), or

if it is separate. Also not sure if it is privately owned or city owned, and whether that would make a difference.

 

I didn't take it, but I found a picture in a thread from several years ago of the posting on the door:

Does this constitute a legal posting?

Has anyone carried there in the past, or had any encounters that might shed some light on this?

[Oh Shoot]

.....

Does this constitute a legal posting?

 

Not statutorily compliant, but "legal" won't be determined unless you get popped for carrying past it and plead it in court.

 

- OS

[Guest drewmn186]

Thanks for the response oh shoot. That's kind of what I thought. If it is owned by the city would that automatically make it illegal to carry there? I have heard from a few friends that also carry that any city building in Knoxville is off limits.

[macville]

Thanks for the response oh shoot. That's kind of what I thought. If it is owned by the city would that automatically make it illegal to carry there? I have heard from a few friends that also carry that any city building in Knoxville is off limits.

 

No. They can't by statue ban carry in a building. They have to post signs.

[JayC]

That's not 100% correct...  If they had a law in 1986 that banned carry in city buildings then they can legally ban carry without posting per 39-17-1359.  Our state preemption law has a massive loophole in it, that many people on this forum tend to over look.

 

Whether Knoxville does or doesn't have one of these pre-1986 laws on the books I can't tell you, but the vast majority of cities in this state have some form of gun control laws on the books that are not covered by state preemption.

 

No. They can't by statue ban carry in a building. They have to post signs.

Edited February 5, 2013 by JayC

[Guest 270win]

Why doesn't the state fix this pre 86 problem and also the parks problem?  Every bill that is introduced right now is overly complicated and does not provide broad relief for those with handgun carry permits.

[JAB]

I am pretty sure I am the one who took that picture.  That was three or four years back, though, so the posting might have been changed/updated by now.  I don't really have many reasons to go there so I don't think I've set foot in the place since the day I took that picture.

 

It is possible that I carried in there that day because, when the door is open (as in someone entering right in front of you - as was the case when I went in) the posting is pretty much invisible even without the 'Caution Automatic Door' sticker obscuring part of it.  I honestly didn't even really see the almost-invisible verbage until I was leaving.  Even with the door closed, it isn't necessarily immediately noticeable.  Add in the fact that the posting does not appear to comply with the letter of the law and, well, let's just say that if I was carrying that day I wasn't too worried about it.  Hypothetically, if I was carrying that day it was well concealed.

Edited February 5, 2013 by JAB

[JAB]

That's not 100% correct...  If they had a law in 1986 that banned carry in city buildings then they can legally ban carry without posting per 39-17-1359.  Our state preemption law has a massive loophole in it, that many people on this forum tend to over look.

 

Whether Knoxville does or doesn't have one of these pre-1986 laws on the books I can't tell you, but the vast majority of cities in this state have some form of gun control laws on the books that are not covered by state preemption.

 

I thought the 'pre-1986 exemption' applied only to parks, not to buildings.  I don't see anything about such an exemption in the verbage of 39-17-1359 but maybe I am overlooking it.

[Oh Shoot]

I thought the 'pre-1986 exemption' applied only to parks, not to buildings.  I don't see anything about such an exemption in the verbage of 39-17-1359 but maybe I am overlooking it.

 

Covers all laws which deal with "...transfer, ownership, possession or transportation of firearms, ammunition or components of firearms or combinations thereof"

 

- OS

Edited February 6, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Guest drewmn186]

I'm not sure about the pre-1986 exemption, but I did put in a call today to a friend that is a KPD officer. Not saying he is 100% accurate, but he told me that all city owned buildings in knoxville are kind of by default prohibited. I have no idea if or by what statute and he didn't know either. Thats just the way they treat the topicin general.

 

If anyone knows of any statutes or odinances dealing with that in knoxville I'd love to read them.

Edited February 6, 2013 by drewmn186

[Oh Shoot]

I'm not sure about the pre-1986 exemption, but I did put in a call today to a friend that is a KPD officer. Not saying he is 100% accurate, but he told me that all city owned buildings in knoxville are kind of by default prohibited. I have no idea if or by what statute and he didn't know either. Thats just the way they treat the topicin general.

 

If anyone knows of any statutes or odinances dealing with that in knoxville I'd love to read them.

 

Here's Knoxville city code:

 

http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=11098&stateId=42&stateName=Tennessee&customBanner=11098.jpg&imageclass=L&cl=11098.txt

 

I've found park firearms ban in there, but never looked for carry in city buildings. Have at it. :)

 

- OS

Edited February 6, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[JayC]

Yeah who knows...  the problem with asking the wrong city employee about it, they m ight do the research find out there isn't a law and post the building you're asking about.

 

I know Belle Meade and Brentwood have 1870's language from a state law in their city ordinances that technically prohibits HCP permit holders from carrying inside their city limits, although that law has never been enforced to my knowledge.

 

I'm not sure about the pre-1986 exemption, but I did put in a call today to a friend that is a KPD officer. Not saying he is 100% accurate, but he told me that all city owned buildings in knoxville are kind of by default prohibited. I have no idea if or by what statute and he didn't know either. Thats just the way they treat the topicin general.

 

If anyone knows of any statutes or odinances dealing with that in knoxville I'd love to read them.

 

[Oh Shoot]

Yeah who knows...  the problem with asking the wrong city employee about it, they m ight do the research find out there isn't a law and post the building you're asking about.

 

I know Belle Meade and Brentwood have 1870's language from a state law in their city ordinances that technically prohibits HCP permit holders from carrying inside their city limits, although that law has never been enforced to my knowledge.

 

Belle Meade zapped their ordinance after Kwik. That's one thing he actually accomplished.

 

And yeah, lots of towns around TN have that same verbatim antiquated ordinance banning carry "except for an Army or Navy revolver carried in the hand".  Knoxville does too. Dates back to the 1870's. According to an MTAS doc I have, the last time anyone was charged with it in the state was in 1928.

 

- OS

Edited February 7, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[JayC]

I was not aware they voted on the Belle Meade change, only that it was proposed and then shelved for a couple of months, are you sure they passed it all 3 times?  

 

But, I completely agree they aren't enforcing the law at all, so why have them on the books...  It screams selective enforcement opportunity, which is a bad thing IMHO. 

 

Belle Meade zapped their ordinance after Kwik. That's one thing he actually accomplished.

 

And yeah, lots of towns around TN have that same verbatim antiquated ordinance banning carry "except for an Army or Navy revolver carried in the hand".  Knoxville does too. Dates back to the 1870's. According to an MTAS doc I have, the last time anyone was charged with it in the state was in 1928.

 

- OS

 

[Oh Shoot]

I was not aware they voted on the Belle Meade change, only that it was proposed and then shelved for a couple of months, are you sure they passed it all 3 times?  

 

Pert sure, search seems to support it.

 

Kwik's last statement on the matter, FWIW:

 

   " Belle Meade ordinance 11-602 was deleted according to ordinance 2010-7 which passed on September 15, 2010. 2010-7 went in to effect 15 days after the Board of Commisioners voted to accept it. The City of Belle Meade no longer regulates the carrying of arms."

 

- OS

                               

[JAB]

One thing I hate about Knoxville is all the 'city ordinance' crap.  Sure, I know a lot of cities have ordinances, etc. but Knoxville seems to have an inordinate number.  Heck, I was once told by a Knoxville City LEO that I needed to remove the clear, plastic cover from my license plate because Knoxville has an ordinance preventing them due to their red light cameras.  Hell, I don't live in Knoxville or even in Knox county and was just passing through the edge of the Knoxville city limits at the time.  The LEO was nice enough but it kind of chaps my butt that Knoxville thinks its city ordinances should apply to everyone who lives in East Tennessee - kind of like New York City ruining the entire state.

 

Anyhow, back on topic, the way I operate is that if there isn't a clear, legal posting or if I am not entering a location that I know to be off limits (such as a US post office, etc.) then I proceed with the assumption (yeah, I know the old adage but whatever) that I am legal to carry.  In the absence of metal detectors and with good concealment, I feel okay with that course of action.

 

I don't want to knowingly break the law - and I know that ignorance of the law isn't a defense - but as every little city, town and berg in the dang state has its own set of rules and laws in addition to the already convoluted state laws, there is no way for anyone to keep up with all of them.  To me, then, the best that anyone can do is obey the laws that they know exist and behave in such a manner as to avoid the need to be questioned about others.  To me, in reality, the only other option would be to simply quit carrying, at all, and I am not willing to do that.

Edited February 8, 2013 by JAB

[Old_Fart_61]

I know this post is 10 years old, but incase there are people that are looking for this information, like me, today. Here is what I found out. 

You can not bring any weapons in the building.

Weapons of any type, including, but not limited to, firearms, including licensed concealed carry guns; knives; pepper spray; blades; tools; etc.

https://www.kccasm.com/p/knowbeforeyougo

[chances R]

IMO if one has a permit, one can carry at world fair park and convention center- unless posted and wand/search is conducted at all entrances.