DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed

[Guest AmericanWorkMule]

Just like the folks after Katrina, he will never see those guns again.

 

On Wednesday, the Department of Homeland Security, along with a SWAT
team and Bernalillo County sheriff’s deputies raided the home of Robert
Adams in Albuquerque, New Mexico and, according to a federal search
warrant affidavit the raid seized nearly 1,500 firearms from the man’s
home and business. However, no charges have been filed against him,
despite the fact that court documents reveal that agents had been
watching Adams for years.

Read more: http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/02/dhs-raids-homeowner-confiscates-nearly-1500-guns-no-charges-filed/#ixzz2JocZUpWn

[DaveTN]

He has bigger problems than seeing those guns again; he has the tax dogs on him.

[MattCary]

That's a lot of guns "confiscated" with no charges filed.

[DaveTN]

That's a lot of guns "confiscated" with no charges filed.

That’s not unusual. They have so many agencies involved (BATF, IRS, the Canadians) they are sorting out what the will charge him with. They are probably waiting for Grand Jury Indictments.

[garethsk]

If the IRS is involved I'm surprised they didn't confiscate everything the guy owned.

[DaveTN]

If the IRS is involved I'm surprised they didn't confiscate everything the guy owned.

If they prove he was selling guns and not paying taxes they will. I would much rather get a visit from an ATF agent than an IRS agent.

[TripleDigitRide]

This story was posted when they first raided his home. The fact that no charges have 'yet' been brought against this man doesn't mean much. The .gov is just making sure they have their ducks in a row before officially charging him with a laundry list of crimes. If they have years invested in watching this guy, the last thing they want to see is him walking on a technicality.

[1gewehr]

Without any 'real' facts in this case, I'll wait to find out what the real story is.  The Feds can charge you with anything they like as a pretext to confiscating your property.  If he was a legitimate collector, that collection could have a HUGE value.  If they find any charges that actually stick, then he will most likely lose the guns to asset forfeiture and the agencies will each get a nice chunk of money after the auction.

 

Asset forfeiture is just a form of legalized theft.

[Photoguy67]

If they prove he was selling guns and not paying taxes they will. I would much rather get a visit from an ATF agent than an IRS agent.

pretty much one and the same. I know they moved batfe but for all intents and purposes they are still under the IRS. If it wasn't for revenue, they wouldn't exist.

[MattCary]

 If he was a legitimate collector, that collection could have a HUGE value. 

 

Yeah. I'll be the guy on American Guns would have offered him at least $40,00 for it all.  :rofl:

[Guest AmericanWorkMule]

.... I would much rather get a visit from an ATF agent than an IRS agent.

 

The IRS only wants your money and aspirations. The ATF will lay siege to your home, burn all that is alive, and hoist their flag for victory . . .

Edited February 4, 2013 by AmericanWorkMule

[battleop]

 

Just like the folks after Katrina, he will never see those guns again.

 

Court documents reveal federal agents were watching Adams for years and that some documentation was missing “to determine to whom Adams [was] selling or exporting his firearms.”

 

The guns were also not properly marked possibly to make the guns more valuable and to avoid paying high import taxes, investigators alleged.
However, a bigger concern is that no markings on the guns and missing documents mean the guns are not traceable by law enforcement.

The search warrant also said Adams was investigated in Canada for keeping about 80 illegal guns in a storage unit. U.S. agents worked with Canadian police on that case.

 

From the original post you would think that DHS just picked some random guy and raided him and stole his guns.  Sounds to me like he was an FFL or acting as and FFL and he was not keeping records and may have had guns without without serial numbers.  He has probably not been charged YET, with the key word being yet.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Well, Hell, you ought to have something to charge an American Citizen with, if you're going to do this.Some people around here

make me sick. Assuming the man is guilty of something, then bitch about your 2nd Amendment rights being stripped. You can't

have it both ways, girls!

Sound like a bunch of politicians rationalizing some other right away.

[QuietDan]

This story was posted when they first raided his home. The fact that no charges have 'yet' been brought against this man doesn't mean much. The .gov is just making sure they have their ducks in a row before officially charging him with a laundry list of crimes. If they have years invested in watching this guy, the last thing they want to see is him walking on a technicality.

 

From Casablanca:

 

Captain Renault:
"I am making out the report now. We haven't quite decided yet whether he committed suicide or died trying to escape."

[TripleDigitRide]

From Casablanca:

Captain Renault:
"I am making out the report now. We haven't quite decided yet whether he committed suicide or died trying to escape."

I never said that I agree with their procedures. I was merely sharing my opinion as to why they were handling the situation this way. As far as I am concerned, if they've been watching him for several years, they should have enough to charge him with something before raiding his home and business.

Based on what information has been released so far, it does appear this guy was up to some shady stuff. With that being said, the .gov is pretty good at making someone appear guilty before being proven so.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

When you allow the asset forfeiture and property seizure laws apply to anything in life, you end up with pure tyranny. I don't care how

"guilty" this guy was on some charge, but there is a process to follow. As it stands now, all the government has to do is come on your

property, take your possessions, make a possible trumped up charge, and you lose your property, money and rights as a US citizen.

 

It is the government's linchpin to do as they please. It was originally intended to be used as a way to get at the mafia. Looks like we

all must be part of the mafia, now. This law is used over 10,000 times a year and even if the property owner is found not guilty, he

still may not get anything back. Tell me where there is justice in that.

 

If anyone trusts their government that much, they need their head examined. How can you defend yourself if you can't afford to pay

the lawyer because the government took your last penny and all your property?

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That’s not unusual. They have so many agencies involved (BATF, IRS, the Canadians) they are sorting out what the will charge him with. They are probably waiting for Grand Jury Indictments.

There's your Civilian National Security Force and "police department" all rolled in one, DaveTN. Do you really think that's the way to

have some kind of justice in America? It may not be unusual, but it sure used to be, not that long ago, also.

 

And I thought grand jury indictments meant something. Hell, even on Law and Order they acted like they were at least holding someone

for questioning before they charged them. That show was a farce, also.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Just so you know, I have been threatened by a government agent. It wasn't even over anything I did and it was because I

was trying to do the right thing, but it would drag that particular agent into an investigation and get a private company in

trouble who may have been in cahoots with the agent. Never really found out, and the agent was "promoted" sideways

out of his position to possibly cover it up. The agent threatened me with US Marshalls and an inquiry into my business.

I stood up to the piece of slime and won.

 

That's my sole experience with the federal government, outside the IRS, and I don't scare very easily from them, either. If

they want to push me into something, I know I'm not big enough to fight any battle, but if it is over BS I will. Because I do

know too many people won't stand up to them and just pay themselves into oblivion. That really angers me to no end that

people are like that. They are supposed to be "our" servants, not the other way around.

 

Yeh, I snap sometimes.

Edited February 4, 2013 by 6.8 AR

[QuietDan]

Just so you know, I have been threatened by a government agent. It wasn't even over anything I did and it was because I

was trying to do the right thing, but it would drag that particular agent into an investigation and get a private company in

trouble who may have been in cahoots with the agent. Never really found out, and the agent was "promoted" sideways

out of his position to possibly cover it up. The agent threatened me with US Marshalls and an inquiry into my business.

I stood up to the piece of slime and won.

 

That's my sole experience with the federal government, outside the IRS, and I don't scare very easily from them, either. If

they want to push me into something, I know I'm not big enough to fight any battle, but if it is over BS I will. Because I do

know too many people won't stand up to them and just pay themselves into oblivion. That really angers me to no end that

people are like that. They are supposed to be "our" servants, not the other way around.

 

Yeh, I snap sometimes.

 

It's always been my experience that bullies, government or otherwise, are not nearly as powerful as they pretend to be. Give them a good shove back and they go running most of the time. Their bullying activities have to take place in the "dark" and shining a light on them and pushing back is more often successful than not.

 

Good on you.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

What I don't understand, Dan, is why there are always so few who will fight back, and there are so many who are so damned

complacent that they barely know how to put their damned pants on. If you believe in something you fight for it. We have that

something. It's called the United States Constitution and it is worth fighting for. You and so many others went to war to defend

it, and come back home to see it get ripped to shreds. It is so shameful to see that so many people don't give a damned about

much more than a six pack of beer and the next football game, than to fight for something we believe to be right. I'm talking to

all the people, not the Soldiers in the crowd, although there may accidently be a few, who have let their own country die like

a withering vine all these years and sit back and are still willing to compromise any remaining shred of principles away.

 

There will be a reckoning. When the time comes, I hope you made your peace with yourself, because that storm is not that far

off. I'm too old to do much, but I won't sit down and let it run over me.

 

Get that word "compromise" out of your vocabulary, people!

[Garufa]

It's always been my experience that bullies, government or otherwise, are not nearly as powerful as they pretend to be. Give them a good shove back and they go running most of the time. Their bullying activities have to take place in the "dark" and shining a light on them and pushing back is more often successful than not.

 

That hasn't worked out to well for the conservatives the past few years on the national scene.  There is no in the dark "bullying" going on now, it is all so overt it's ridiculous.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Garufa

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That hasn't worked out to well for the conservatives the past few years on the national scene.  There is no in the dark "bullying" going on now, it is all so overt it's ridiculous.

That's because the conservatives, using that word sparingly, forgot their own way. The ones "called" conservatives are still in the fight, just not too

many of them around. The GOP is not conservative. They are a bunch of spineless fools who wish for everyone to like them. They "reach across

the aisle" too much when they should be fighting like dogs to get the right message out. They are lost in the arena of ideas.

[Guest AmericanWorkMule]

NewsChannel 5 Investigates noted, "But you had no proof that (his $23,000) money was being used for drug trafficking, correct? No proof?"

 

"And he couldn't prove it was legitimate," insisted Officer Larry Bates, Monterey Police

 

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/18241221/man-loses-22000-in-new-policing-for-profit-case

 

 

 

When you allow the asset forfeiture and property seizure laws apply to anything in life, you end up with pure tyranny. I don't care how

"guilty" this guy was on some charge, but there is a process to follow. As it stands now, all the government has to do is come on your

property, take your possessions, make a possible trumped up charge, and you lose your property, money and rights as a US citizen.

 

It is the government's linchpin to do as they please. It was originally intended to be used as a way to get at the mafia. Looks like we

all must be part of the mafia, now. This law is used over 10,000 times a year and even if the property owner is found not guilty, he

still may not get anything back. Tell me where there is justice in that.

 

If anyone trusts their government that much, they need their head examined. How can you defend yourself if you can't afford to pay

the lawyer because the government took your last penny and all your property?

[Guest 6.8 AR]

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/18241221/man-loses-22000-in-new-policing-for-profit-case

Right here in Tennessee. Forgot about that. Don't you just love those goon squads funding their department with your money without your consent?

Thanks for reminding me about that. There's a particular brand of that in a lot of the counties that border snugly to I-40 and I-24. Haven't noticed I-75

or I-81 being infected with that garbage, though. Probably just was looking at the right time.

[MattCary]

Turns out the subject of this raid is a reader on TTAG, and his story is being told there:

 

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/02/robert-farago/this-is-how-the-dhs-seizes-your-guns/