Working Armed Security how are they excluded from Signs?

[Guest Mad4rcn]

I had a friend a few years ago that wanted to start a security buisness to check a few car lots at night. After fees and insurance it was going to cost about $5000 a year.

Insurance this year went up to $8200, last year $3800, insurance only ,not state fees or bonding.

[DaveTN]

Insurance this year went up to $8200, last year $3800, insurance only ,not state fees or bonding.

 

For how many Security Officers?

[Guest Mad4rcn]

Correct, some of the larger churches have actually formed their own in house security organization, paid for the bond, and everything to have in house armed guards who are church members.

In order to have an " in house " security team,you would have to have a TN proprietary license. Meaning some one who is qualified to own and operate a security company would have to be on record with the state as the ONE who has to answer for the whole. Any joe blow from cocomo can't just up and call the state and say send me a license. Off the top of my head,the only one that comes to mind as a proprietary company around my neck of the woods would be The Chattanooga Choo Choo. Owned and operated by the Choo Choo. Not counting education facilities of course. But even the Choo Choo has one name on the license or two if both qualify.

[Guest Mad4rcn]

For how many Security Officers?

0 - 49 range,Armed Security

[Guest Mad4rcn]

Policy is large enough to cover certain clients requirements , but way to much for others,but not feasible to have several policies.
Low policy client - walk around this building
High policy client - hospital,college,ATM company when machine needs maintenance,usually do that kind of work in middle of night,you'd be surprised how much cash in one of those things,so you stand behind the worker with a shotgun and watch his back basically.

[Guest Mad4rcn]

0 - 49 range,Armed Security

Unarmed company would be cheaper of course,lots of those out there.

[Guest 270win]

Yes, having in house security is expensive with the bond and insurance and that is why some use a contract service.

 

I have seen ATM repair guys in Arkansas that wore just jeans or slacks but they open carried handguns (not legal there to open carry unless you have an armed guard license).  Always two guys working on those.

 

 

I would be open if to get the right law passed to requal for an 'enhanced' license to be able to carry past signs legally, schools, and all parks just like Mississippi did last year and created an 'enhanced' license.

Edited August 19, 2013 by 270win

[Hoky_Tonk69]

Armed security may carry anywhere LEO's carry as long as said armed security officer is on duty and have business in or around the specific building.

I may be somewhat mistaken, but this is how it has been explained to me. Edited February 21, 2013 by Hoky_Tonk69

[Jesse]

Schools hound parents so much for handouts i dont see how they have any cash to get picked up.

[Guest ab28]

Private property owners can pick and choose when they want to enforce a sign. The Brinks guys going to schools I assume would have to be covered by statute.

That sucks, it should apply or it shouldn't, or they should take the sign down. I don't think property owners should have a say in whether someone carries a concealed handgun, personal defense is up to the person, not some random guy who happens to own a building. I also consider things like a restaurant, where the public goes in and out, to be much different than a house or someone's private residence.

[Makiaveli]

That sucks, it should apply or it shouldn't, or they should take the sign down. I don't think property owners should have a say in whether someone carries a concealed handgun, personal defense is up to the person, not some random guy who happens to own a building. I also consider things like a restaurant, where the public goes in and out, to be much different than a house or someone's private residence.

 

How exactly are they different, as it pertains to the owner's rights? 

 

Please note I said "as it pertains to the owner's rights?" I understand traffic flow, public vs private space etc., this is about the right of the owner to make said decisions.

[Guest ab28]

How exactly are they different, as it pertains to the owner's rights? 

 

Please note I said "as it pertains to the owner's rights?" I understand traffic flow, public vs private space etc., this is about the right of the owner to make said decisions.

Because the number of people in the building is going to make it less safe than a residence. I just don't believe that someone else should be able to make my self defense decisions for me. That has never made sense to me. It's like cops that woke me up for sleeping in my car in a parking lot when I was homeless years ago. The parking lot was mostly empty, and I understood he probably had concern for my personal safety, but the owner wasn't using the lot at the time, so it shouldn't have mattered.

 

Seems like property owners have a lot more rights than regular people today. Someone can make me follow an irrational rule, or leave, based on the fact that they own the piece of dirt I am standing on. Irrational ideas, like "guns are bad", have no obligation to be followed. I don't go past signs on those businesses, I just don't go there.

 

I've personally always been a minimalist, I currently own hiking gear and this computer, and the less stuff I own, the happier I am. It seems that the heavy emphasis on "property rights" feels like a symptom of the materialism sickness infecting this country. The homeless thing is a perfect example. If you don't own a house, you are looked at as lacking something, and people actively hamper your lifestyle.

Edited March 3, 2013 by ab28

[DaveTN]

Seems like property owners have a lot more rights than regular people today.

There is no “seems like” to it. Their “piece of dirt” or their business and they call the shots. That is the way it is supposed to be. If you don’t like their rules; don’t enter their property, or take your business elsewhere; they don’t want it.

It’s a crime to carry a gun in the state of Tennessee. I get to do it because I pay the state for the “privilege”. To try to say my privilege trumps property owners rights is a thug government and will turn the public against us.

If you don’t have a vested interest in the property no one cares what your opinions are about it. That’s freedom.

[Guest ab28]

There is no “seems like” to it. Their “piece of dirt” or their business and they call the shots. That is the way it is supposed to be. If you don’t like their rules; don’t enter their property, or take your business elsewhere; they don’t want it.

It’s a crime to carry a gun in the state of Tennessee. I get to do it because I pay the state for the “privilege”. To try to say my privilege trumps property owners rights is a thug government and will turn the public against us.

If you don’t have a vested interest in the property no one cares what your opinions are about it. That’s freedom.

It's not a thug government, I see it as not being infringed. It is no one else's business to say how I choose my personal defense tool. I wouldn't say my priviledge trumps owner's rights, more that my life is worth more than their property. 

 

The company I worked for had a no weapons policy. I carried anyways, because it was common sense. If I got robbed by a crackhead, as I was getting stabbed, I wouldn't have felt better by obeying the rules. 

 

My opinions matter about the same as a property owner's. Owning stuff doesn't make you better, that goes back to the serfdom of the middle ages. I own practically nothing, and feel freer for doing so. I have this old computer, which I am selling in a few days, and very little hiking gear.

 

Owning property has always struck me as kinda weird. You gotta maintain things, everything you own needs to be fixed, or replaced on a certain schedule. 

[Dolomite_supafly]

It's not a thug government, I see it as not being infringed. It is no one else's business to say how I choose my personal defense tool. I wouldn't say my priviledge trumps owner's rights, more that my life is worth more than their property. 

 

The company I worked for had a no weapons policy. I carried anyways, because it was common sense. If I got robbed by a crackhead, as I was getting stabbed, I wouldn't have felt better by obeying the rules. 

 

My opinions matter about the same as a property owner's. Owning stuff doesn't make you better, that goes back to the serfdom of the middle ages. I own practically nothing, and feel freer for doing so. I have this old computer, which I am selling in a few days, and very little hiking gear.

 

Owning property has always struck me as kinda weird. You gotta maintain things, everything you own needs to be fixed, or replaced on a certain schedule. 

 

It is our business if you are on our property. If you are not on my property I could care less how or what you do to protect yourself. But when you are on my property I can dictate how you will defend yourself. I can also dictate what you wear, what you say as well as whether I can search you on my property. If you chose not to follow my wishes, as the property owner, while you are on my property you must leave.

 

Who is to say whether a life is worth someone's property? There is plenty of things that people would kill someone over and rightly so.

 

Dolomite

[Guest ab28]

It is our business if you are on our property. If you are not on my property I could care less how or what you do to protect yourself. But when you are on my property I can dictate how you will defend yourself. I can also dictate what you wear, what you say as well as whether I can search you on my property. If you chose not to follow my wishes, as the property owner, while you are on my property you must leave.

 

Who is to say whether a life is worth someone's property? There is plenty of things that people would kill someone over and rightly so.

 

Dolomite

You can dictate if you want, but I'd rather rely on my training and experiences to decide how I should defend myself. You being a general you. If someone that knows nothing about guns tells me "guns are bad" and I can't carry there, their opinion isn't going to have much weight. There were plenty of times I had study groups off campus that were hardcore liberals and I knew they hated guns. I carried anyways. They sure as hell weren't going to protect me if something happened. 

 

As far as being searched, that is going to depend on a lot of things. If someone just walks up to me and says "I am going to search you" and I don't know them, it isn't going to happen. If they try to touch me, I'll defend myself with force warranted to the situation. As far as talking goes, I don't think a property owner can tell me what I can say or wear, either, sorry. Just because I am on their property doesn't make me a slave. 

 

As far as life being worth more, yeah it is, you can replace a house or a car, but not your life. I am not talking about defending yourself from a burglar, ect, but rather some pencil pushing corporate exec with no combat experience telling me I can't carry a gun at work. His opinion is worthless. I have been robbed, I carried anyways. 

 

For leaving a property, I have never been asked to do so. If I was, I would. The trouble just isn't worth it. 

 

I've just never felt I should be a second class citizen just because I am on someone else's property. Just because they own it doesn't give them any extra respect or consideration as far as what they say. I'll treat them how they treat me, as it should be.

Edited March 4, 2013 by ab28

[Guest 270win]

AB,

 

I understand what you are saying but will say that when it comes to my business if I don't like a behavior, I should be able to exclude it.  For example if i do not approve of alcohol, I should not be forced to allow alcohol on my property.  Now at the same time, I do not think it should be the state of Tennessee tasked with enforcing my no alcohol policy.  At most if I catch you drinking a beer out of a brown bag, I should be able to ask you to leave and it not be some special crime just because I disallow alcohol.  At most I would just ask you to leave and if you don't leave you would get charged with trespass.  This is the same way I view guns.  The state should not be tasked with enforcing a no gun policy if i had one beyond me asking someone who has a gun to leave and the person fails to leave then trespass.

 

I think the local park issue and the private property 'no guns' signs should be approached this way because it is a balance between private and public property rights  VS the person with a gun being charged with a weapons offense.

[Makiaveli]

There is no “seems like” to it. Their “piece of dirt” or their business and they call the shots. That is the way it is supposed to be. If you don’t like their rules; don’t enter their property, or take your business elsewhere; they don’t want it.

It’s a crime to carry a gun in the state of Tennessee. I get to do it because I pay the state for the “privilege”. To try to say my privilege trumps property owners rights is a thug government and will turn the public against us.

If you don’t have a vested interest in the property no one cares what your opinions are about it. That’s freedom.

 

Sorry to be so late to the party, but DaveTN took care of business for me it seems.

 

That's more succinct that I would've put it, but sums it up nicely.

 

I will add that no one is making self-defense decisions for anyone else in these cases. You are choosing whether or not to enter the property and defend yourself within the limits posted. Or you are choosing to not enter the property.  

[Guest ab28]

Sorry to be so late to the party, but DaveTN took care of business for me it seems.

 

That's more succinct that I would've put it, but sums it up nicely.

 

I will add that no one is making self-defense decisions for anyone else in these cases. You are choosing whether or not to enter the property and defend yourself within the limits posted. Or you are choosing to not enter the property.  

Or choosing to enter the property, keep quiet, and be able to defend yourself.

[Guest 270win]

Keeping quiet and not telling is the best way to go about carrying anything that most people do not care for.  About the only way anyone should find your gun is if you were run through a good metal detector.