Working Armed Security how are they excluded from Signs?

[Patton]

I was asked today with Armed couriers, specifically money couriers, how they are capable doing their job and not conflicting with legal anti-carry signs. Obviously the property owners would have to be willing to prosecute. I find it hard to believe they are only at the mercy of anticipating property owners will not seek prosecution.
So here is one of the ultimate questions. A Brinks messenger has a money pickup inside a school, are they breaking the law?

[TMF]

[quote name="Patton" post="901021" timestamp="1359654392"]I was asked today with Armed couriers, specifically money couriers, how they are capable doing their job and not conflicting with legal anti-carry signs. Obviously the property owners would have to be willing to prosecute. I find it hard to believe they are only at the mercy of anticipating property owners will not seek prosecution. So here is one of the ultimate questions. A Brinks messenger has a money pickup inside a school, are they breaking the law?[/quote] Probably, but that would require a lot of steps to get there. First some one would have to call the cops, then you'd have to find a cop that was willing to cite the guard, then a DA willing to prosecute. The judge would surely throw it out. In the end it would result in the carrier telling the posted location to get bent and take it to the bank themselves and risk getting robbed and shot for having a boatload of cash.

[Patton]

That's exactly what I was thinking. I know they enter banks and malls that are properly posted daily, but I was curious if just being state licensed and under bond was an exclusion.

[Guest 270win]

Armed security can carry in schools when they are working, such as brinks picking up money or from what i understand the executive security types as long as they have an armed guard license.

 

The sign law does not seem to apply to those with an armed guard license either.

 

 

Kind of stupid that someone with an armed guard license can carry in those places but someone with a permit cant.  Not trying to down the armed guard license, but they are not much more qualified to carry standards wise than we are on a permit.

Edited January 31, 2013 by 270win

[DaveTN]

Private property owners can pick and choose when they want to enforce a sign. The Brinks guys going to schools I assume would have to be covered by statute.

[JGunner]

Yeah this really grinds my gears that the brinks security guys come pick up money at chatt state and are armed. Yet I am not allowed to arm myself because I'm not protecting the school's money.

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

Armed security can carry in schools when they are working, such as brinks picking up money or from what i understand the executive security types as long as they have an armed guard license.

 

The sign law does not seem to apply to those with an armed guard license either.

 

 

Kind of stupid that someone with an armed guard license can carry in those places but someone with a permit cant.  Not trying to down the armed guard license, but they are not much more qualified to carry standards wise than we are on a permit.

They are on the job transporting money... you are not !

[JGunner]

I am usually carrying a $1000+ guitar, and a $500 iPad while I'm on campus. In that sense I am transporting money. I am also on the job.

I'm just trying to clarify the situation. The school's money (and other peoples money in the truck) can be protected while on campus, but my life does not get that same protection.

Sure, if I don't like it I don't have to work there, and I can find a new job. That doesn't make the situation "right" though.

[Oh Shoot]

One of the exceptions in  39-17-1309 (firearms/schools) is:

 

" Any registered security guard/officer who meets the requirements of title 62, chapter 35, and who is discharging the officer's official duties."

 

(I didn't look at 62-35 to research further, but I'll bet it covers it)

 

- OS

Edited January 31, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Guest 270win]

Yeah i would assume anyone with an armed guard license, while working, can carry a gun at a school, whether it is Brinks or some wealthy guy's executive protection.

[Makiaveli]

So if I got my armed guard license, went into business providing armed guard services, and then hired myself to protect myself, I could carry any where I want?

 

 

 

PS: No I don't actually plan on testing this theory, not until the boy is grown and has his own insurance anyway.

[Dolomite_supafly]

So if I got my armed guard license, went into business providing armed guard services, and then hired myself to protect myself, I could carry any where I want?

 

 

 

PS: No I don't actually plan on testing this theory, not until the boy is grown and has his own insurance anyway.

Seriously?

 

You will have your license revoked if you try to do that. And they are not cheap, at least a lot more expensive than a HCP.

 

When I had my armed guard license, long before getting my HCP, I asked the state licensing office if I could provide "protection" for my wife. They said that was not allowed and that my license could be revoked if I got caught. They said the armed guard license did not allow me to carry outside of work.

 

Also, back when I got my armed guard license anyone could apply without having an employer that required it. I do believe the rules have changed and require an "employer" to verify you will be working for them. I am not 100% but I seem to recall that is what I was told last year when I was going to get another that I needed to have an "employer" in order to get one. I wanted one because several shops give LE discount to those with armed guard licenses.

 

Dolomite

[Patton]

I had a friend a few years ago that wanted to start a security buisness to check a few car lots at night. After fees and insurance it was going to cost about $5000 a year.

[Guest 270win]

This does show the illogical and unfairness of this law of how if you are paid to protect someone or their money with an armed guard license, then you can carry wherever you want.  But if you protect yourself, then you are limited by the state with a permit.

[Makiaveli]

Seriously?

 

You will have your license revoked if you try to do that. And they are not cheap, at least a lot more expensive than a HCP.

 

When I had my armed guard license, long before getting my HCP, I asked the state licensing office if I could provide "protection" for my wife. They said that was not allowed and that my license could be revoked if I got caught. They said the armed guard license did not allow me to carry outside of work.

 

Also, back when I got my armed guard license anyone could apply without having an employer that required it. I do believe the rules have changed and require an "employer" to verify you will be working for them. I am not 100% but I seem to recall that is what I was told last year when I was going to get another that I needed to have an "employer" in order to get one. I wanted one because several shops give LE discount to those with armed guard licenses.

 

Dolomite

 

First I was only half serious, and I thought my PS would help make that clear. Second, if you re-read I didn't say I was wanting to get the license and then claim to be protecting myself. I was asking, and am still curious, if someone who was self-employed as a armed security guard could hire them/their (call a grammar nazi)self and thus carry anywhere. As long as you actually paid yourself, and thus coughed up the taxes etc, I don't see how this differs from actually hiring a bodyguard. Thus building up to what razorback said much more succinctly than I.

 

Patton demonstrates that this, if legal, wouldn't be feasible for most of us. Still, even as nothing more than an exercise in armchair lawyering, I thought it had some merit.

[Patton]

Another note is you would be limited to TN only. As far as I know.

[JayC]

It doesn't, that covers security guards working for the school district, not working for a third party.

 

One of the exceptions in  39-17-1309 (firearms/schools) is:

 

" Any registered security guard/officer who meets the requirements of title 62, chapter 35, and who is discharging the officer's official duties."

 

(I didn't look at 62-35 to research further, but I'll bet it covers it)

 

- OS

 

 

[Oh Shoot]

One of the exceptions in  39-17-1309 (firearms/schools) is:

 

" Any registered security guard/officer who meets the requirements of title 62, chapter 35, and who is discharging the officer's official duties."

 

(I didn't look at 62-35 to research further, but I'll bet it covers it)

 

- OS

 

It doesn't, that covers security guards working for the school district, not working for a third party.

 

I think I disagree. :)

 

because the exception right before the one cited above is for:

 

"Any private police employed by the administration or board of trustees of any public or private institution of higher education in the discharge of their duties"

 

And the one I cited doesn't mention needing to be hired by the school.

 

So are you gonna make me look at 62-35 for a more informed opinion, or are you? :)

 

(I'm really missing FallGuy in this forum!) ;)

 

- OS

Edited February 1, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[dodo]

Just call Private Protective Services. They will tell you. 

[Guest 270win]

As far as schools, the law does not seem to differentiate between an armed guard working for a school or an armed guard working say as a bodyguard for a wealthy person and the wealthy person is going to a school with his armed guard.

 

Like I said, this law is stupid that if you have the money you can hire an armed guard (though against policy possibly) to walk with you across Univ of Tenn or Univ of Memphis but regular folks cant use a permit and carry their own handgun at Univ of Memphis.

 

 

On a side note, some churches in the area have their own in house armed guards with the appropriate armed license that are plainclothes church members.  It would also seem legal that those in house armed guards could go with children's groups from the church to places like a college and be legal because they would be acting as an armed guard for the church..

Edited February 1, 2013 by 270win

[Patton]

On a side note, some churches in the area have their own in house armed guards with the appropriate armed license that are plainclothes church members.  It would also seem legal that those in house armed guards could go with children's groups from the church to places like a college and be legal because they would be acting as an armed guard for the church..

I talked with a guy while I was on patrol a while back and interesting enough the church paid for their armed guard class just to find out they were operating illegally. They were better off as plain clothes armed citizens for insurance purposes. Like I mentioned earlier there is the cost of the proper TN Commerce License and providing the insurance bond. Technically, for a church to have a armed security officer they have to have a security buisness or hire a buisness. Armed civilians in TN can just go to church and be themselves. Some counties in TN, Bradley County for example, have deputized for the sole purpose of church protection.

[Guest 270win]

Correct, some of the larger churches have actually formed their own in house security organization, paid for the bond, and everything to have in house armed guards who are church members.

[East_TN_Patriot]

They are on the job transporting money... you are not !

 

So that makes their lives more valuable than yours or mine and thus we should not be allowed to carry a weapon to protect ourselves?

[DaveTN]

It isn’t about money, it’s because they don’t want you (citizens)to carry a gun. They allow the guards because the school called them to make a pick-up. Call the cops or call Brinks and people with guns are going to show up....makes sense to me.

I don’t know why anyone here is surprised that special people get special treatment. The Presidents Secret Service detail carry their guns everywhere they go, no matter what the laws are, so do the body guards of most visiting dignitaries.

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

So that makes their lives more valuable than yours or mine and thus we should not be allowed to carry a weapon to protect ourselves?

 

I didnt say you cant protect yourself.. stop reading into it.

 

BUT.....

 

Its part of their job.. they get hired to transport money or diamonds or whatnot.  . Its..... p a r t ...... o f ........ t h e i r .... j o b..!!! They want to make sure it gets from point A to point B  without  someone pulling an Italian Job... :doh: