Bolt action .223?

[Erik88]

So I was thinking it would be fun to pick up my first bolt action rifle. I'd like to have something that would have a greater range and accuracy than my AR without having to invest in a new caliber. I was thinking about the Mossberg MVP because I already have plenty of AR magazines.

 

Will the MVP be more accurate than my AR and have a greater range? Am I wasting time by sticking with .223 over a different caliber?

 

Are there any other bolt action rifles in .223 I should look into? The MVP is the only one I am aware of.

 

Discuss.

[Oh Shoot]

.223 is .223. A different rifle won't extend range to speak of. Longer barrel length up to a point is main factor on the range, and optimum twist for bullet weight. Marines already qualify at 400-500 yards with ARs, you want to go longer? :)

 

A decent AR is already pretty darn accurate. Any increase in that is gonna be in relatively minor scale for general shooting. If you want to chase minimal groupings or competition level accuracy, some bolt rifles probably will, but a standard factory rifle configuration might or might not do it, depending on which firearm. And again, bullet weight vs. rifling is large factor with either, and barrel length. My opinion, your S&W Sport is gonna be tough to improve on accuracy without going custom.

 

Example, most all stock Savage .22LR bolt guns will outshoot a Ruger 10/22, but you're looking at the diff between maybe 3-5" at 75 yards,  2-3" at 50 yards. And of course exact round matters a lot too, difference here is especially significant with .22LR accuracy.

 

Rules of thumb, with same caliber, same cartridge:

- bolt guns are more accurate than semi-autos

- no rule is completely consistent

 

- OS

Edited January 31, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[mikegideon]

Be more specific. What ranges, and what targets? Do you need to make holes in paper, or kill something? My long range AR is plenty accurate out to 600 yards. It's not the platform so much as the barrel when you're going for range with a .223. You need one that's free floated for accuracy, and long enough to get the necessary velocity. The twist needs to be fast enough to shoot heavier bullets. You need a heavy barrel too. In other words, a good varmint upper.

 

Nothing wrong with bolt guns either. Savage gives you good off the rack accuracy. The advantage with bolt guns is the wide range of available calibers. The rules for barrels still stand. 

[Dolomite_supafly]

Rather than the MVP look at Mossberg's new Flex. It is identical to the MVP but you can replace the stocks easily with AR style. It is also goign to be a few hundred dollars cheaper. It too takes AR mags.

 

Dolomite

[Garufa]

At what ranges do you shoot Erik?  As a general rule bolt guns are more accurate than semi-autos but at the distances they really shine are beyond fooling with .223.

[Erik88]

It will primarily be for target practice but it would also be a backup SHTF gun.

 

The idea is that my AR will have a decent red dot for close range and I'd put some nice glass on the bolt gun for longer distance. 

[mikegideon]

.223 is .223. A different rifle won't extend range to speak of. Longer barrel length up to a point is main factor on the range, and optimum twist for bullet weight.

 

A decent AR is already pretty darn accurate. Any increase in that is gonna be in relatively minor scale for general shooting. If you want to chase minimal groupings or competition level accuracy, some bolt rifles probably will, but a standard factory rifle configuration might or might not do it, depending on which firearm. And again, bullet weight vs. rifling is large factor with either, and barrel length.

 

Example, most all stock Savage .22LR bolt guns will outshoot a Ruger 10/22, but you're looking at the diff between maybe 3-5" at 75 yards,  2-3" at 50 yards. And of course exact round matters a lot too, difference here is especially significant with .22LR accuracy.

 

Rule of thumb, with same caliber:

- bolt guns are more accurate

- no rule is completely consistent

 

- OS

 

A 10/22 is a blowback action. Not sure if that impacts accuracy. The AR is locked breach until after the bullet is gone. You can increase the accuracy of some AR's, like your Sports by free floating the barrels. They won't hold as well as the barrel heats up. Then, you have the max velocity of a 16" barrel that limits range. I still think you may get sub MOA out of a sport if you free float it. and use good ammo.

[Erik88]

At what ranges do you shoot Erik?  As a general rule bolt guns are more accurate than semi-autos but at the distances they really shine are beyond fooling with .223.

 

Well, I figure once I have a red dot on my AR I might be accurate out to 150 yards. After that my eye sight just isn't good enough unless I also buy a magnifier. 

 

Ideally the bolt gun would be used for shots in the 200-300 yard range. 

[mikegideon]

It will primarily be for target practice but it would also be a backup SHTF gun.

 

The idea is that my AR will have a decent red dot for close range and I'd put some nice glass on the bolt gun for longer distance. 

 

The red dot will limit you more than the gun. If you add SHTF, you need a bigger caliber.

[mikegideon]

Well, I figure once I have a red dot on my AR I might be accurate out to 150 yards. After that my eye sight just isn't good enough unless I also buy a magnifier. 

 

Ideally the bolt gun would be used for shots in the 200-300 yard range. 

 

Get a decent piece of glass and put QD mounts on your red dot and your new scope. That AR should be fine under 300. If not, change the handguard to a free float. Heavy barrels are great for longer ranges (out past 300) shooting from a rest. 300 isn't far enough to mess with it.

 

BTW... longer barrels arent more accurate. For the same size, you get more whip from a longer barrel. It's all about velocity.

Edited January 31, 2013 by mikegideon

[gregintenn]

Ruger, Interarms, Sako, and perhaps others have produced really neat bolt rifles with the actions sized for the 223. A model 7 Remington is also a nice little package that can be had in 223. To each his own, but I do not care for a detachable magazine on a bolt rifle.

 

Good luck getting better accuracy from a bolt rifle than from the average AR. As far as range, you've got the same bullet moving the same speed from either rifle. If you just want a bolt rifle, there's no shame in it. You don't have to justify it with reason. Trust me. :up:

Edited January 31, 2013 by gregintenn

[lshel]

I had a CZ 527 bolt action in 223 and it was very accurate with scope 200yds +, for much longer ranges you need a bigger caliber like .308/30-06 IMO.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I would look at the Stevens 200 as well. It is just like the Savage without an accutrigger but it does not take AR magazines.

 

The Mossberg Flex is on my list of must haves and is very close to the top. I will be ordering one in 300 Blackout. It is rumored that they use the same barrel maker as Savage.

 

If you want a gun for shooting under 300 yards just use your AR, they are more than capable of well beyond that depending on the glass. I would not think a bolt gun is needed under 400 yards.

 

The key to being accurate is knowing your velocity and what bullet you are shooting. Knowing both you can easily shoot to 400 yards with an AR providing the optic will get you there. 400 yards isn't that far when you actully start shooting it. Use the red dot for 100 yards and grab a scope with 12x max magnification. Make sure the scope has easily useable turrets, like target style turrets. And I would highly recommend a mildot reticle and learn to use it for ranging. It is VERY easy to do the formula in your head. I will always have a mildot on my bolt guns and will likely add one to my new 300 Blackout AR.

 

Dolomite

[Jonnin]

For 200 - 300 yards a 223 is a good choice, ammo is cheap and the caliber will put it there accurately, and it is a low recoil round so you can shoot all day.  It will teach you much on a windy day even at 300 yards.

 

Red dots, the dots usually fill some MOA.  The cheaper ones are 1 MOA and that means at 300 yards the BEST you can do is a 3 inch group because the darn dot covers that big an area on your target!   Being bright, it probably really covers 1.25 MOA from the light effect.   A crosshair on a standard scope, magnified 7X or so, would allow for a much better group at that range.   Red dots are for 100 yards or less rapid target acquisition and action shooting up close.   My expensive red dot on my pistol is .2 MOA and its pretty good at 50 yards and probably would be decent at 150 yards on a rifle if it had magnification, but a scope is still a better choice for that IMHO.  If you do want a dot, get the smallest you can afford.

[Dolomite_supafly]

What red dot has a .2 MOA dot in it? That is a dot that covers less than 1/4" at 100 yards. I would think it is too small to see with the naked eye. I have a 1 MOA red dot and it is TINY. Most people are doing good to shoot a 3" group at 300 yards with an AR regardless of the optic. Not saying it isn't possible but unlikely with "factory" ammo and a "factory" gun.

 

Dolomite

[Jonnin]

Ok that was a serious brain meltdown. My numbers were all wrong and I have no excuse nor do I know what I was thinking about lol.

 

Its 2, not .2,  and I have no idea how the wrong number got in me head. 

 

And the average seems to be 4 MOA. 

 

on that note I better go to bed, if I am that far gone.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Jonnin

[Slappy]

My FIL purchased an MVP recently and I helped him sight it in.  That is one sweet rifle.  The trigger was awesome! We only shot out to 100 yards but the accuracy was very good.  The benefit of the MVP compared to some other .223 bolt actions is it shoots 5.56 as well.  

[Dolomite_supafly]

No worries Jonnin, I knew it was a typo and just didn't want someone searching (like I did) for a .2 MOA red dot.

 

The smallest red dot I have heard of is a Millett (now Bushnell) Zoom Dot. The dot is adjustable from 1 MOA to 10 MOA and I have used it to shoot steel at 600 yards. What is great about it is the dot automatically changes intensity with outside light. And I consider that mandatory with any red dot.

 

Dolomite

[graycrait]

I sure would like to test the Ultradot 6 against the Bushnell Zoomdot.   

 

http://www.ultradotusa.com/ultradotdist2010_009.htm

 

http://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-Zoom-Trophy-Riflescope-Matte/dp/B003HQBA7G

 

For my money and I have owned a lot including Aimpoints, Ultradot, Millet, Doctor, JPoint, Trijicon I can't hardly get past these http://www.millettsights.com/scopes/sp-series-red-dot/   For plinking they are great, the dot is crisp and I think the single 3MOA dot works just fine.  They are only 1" but for 60.00 I can live with that. 

[crossfire]

I just picked up a Savage Hog Hunter in .223. Check them out, maybe what you are looking for.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/11HOGHUNTER

[Oh Shoot]

I just picked up a Savage Hog Hunter in .223. Check them out, maybe what you are looking for.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/11HOGHUNTER

 

That's a nice looking rifle, a rarity in that it has iron sights too. And threaded barrel...I like it.

 

Here's a review:

 

 

http://www.shootingtimes.com/2012/09/19/purpose-built-for-pork-savage-hog-hunter-review/

 

- OS

[Garufa]

Can't wait to shoot it OS.  :P

[Erik88]

Rather than the MVP look at Mossberg's new Flex. It is identical to the MVP but you can replace the stocks easily with AR style. It is also goign to be a few hundred dollars cheaper. It too takes AR mags.

 

Dolomite

 

I'm not having any luck finding this Flex. A google search is turning up other Mossberg guns but nothing in .223 other than the MVP.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Cheap bolt gun that takes AR mags.

 

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/mossberg-flex-mvp-patrol-rifle-takes-ar-15-mags-shot-show-2013/

 

Expected to be under $500.

 

Dolomite

Edited February 4, 2013 by Dolomite_supafly

[Erik88]

Cheap bolt gun that takes AR mags.

 

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/mossberg-flex-mvp-patrol-rifle-takes-ar-15-mags-shot-show-2013/

 

Expected to be under $500.

 

Dolomite

 

Ugly as sin but very interesting. I didn't notice if it had iron sights or not