Feinstein says collapsible stock makes AR15 full auto

[jay1313g]

First, I'll admit I'm not the most knowledgeable about the AR15 and all of its accessories, but I was watching Face The Nation this morning and our beloved Senator Feinstein was babbling on so I decided to listen to what stupidity she could spew.

One thing that I giggled at when was she said that there were these collapsible stocks for the AR15 that made them fully automatic!

Did anyone else see/hear this?

Is there some sort of "bump fire" collapsible stock that will do this?

[Spots]

There are bump fire AR stocks, but its still one bullet per trigger pull, and they aren't anything but a range toy as far as most people are concerned

[Rightwinger]

Slide Fire

 

http://www.slidefire.com/

[c.a.willard]

I believe she was refering to the slide fire stock.  Wich although it is not collapsable it is designed to mount onto buffertubes designed for collapsable stocks.  And technically under recoil the stock does collapse foward towards the reciever. 

[klamb5]

I have one it is fun and puts a smile on your face , But not at all practical I still would prefer slect fire any day.

[Jason in TN]

I had one fun to play with but with the price of ammo I sold it. 223 is like gold now can't afford to burn $30 in a few seconds.


Jason

[TMF]

I had one fun to play with but with the price of ammo I sold it. 223 is like gold now can't afford to burn $30 in a few seconds.


Jason

 

I was able to get one to function on my M&P 15-22 after a bit a tweaking.  It didn't run as well as a 5.56, but it ran.  With a Timney drop in trigger I figure it works real well.

[klamb5]

 

I had one fun to play with but with the price of ammo I sold it. 223 is like gold now can't afford to burn $30 in a few seconds.


Jason

 Have mine on 9mm AR cheaper but still a novelty

[Mike.357]

I have always found it interesting that Slidefire stocks were legal.   I wish I had one.

[Jonnin]

I have one of the slide fire stocks.   I got it cheap --- it is stamped DEMO and was probably free to the vendor who did not want to sell them ---  and while it WORKS it is very difficult to use.   You have to pull into the shoulder firmly, push on the fore-end grip firmly, hold your trigger finger in place firmly --- all that while trying to deal with aim (or even pointing) and manage the recoil (its noticable, its shooting say 3 rounds per second roughly?).  

 

It is a fun toy, but the skill required to use it would prevent all but the most idiotic of shooters from fooling with it as a weapon system without extensive training.   Given 30-50 round mags,  it might be OK for mowing down an army of zombies that were unable to run away or move much, and even so, you would have an obscene number of missed shots and multi hits on the same target.  

 

As I understand it, MOST of the time the military guys use their rifles in semi-auto mode, and their guns are 10 times easier to use than the bumpfire stock. 

 

I have a letter from the BAFTE that assures me this stock is legal --- the gun, according to the BAFTE, still only fires one round per trigger pull, no matter how fast the trigger is pulled.

[m16ty]

These stocks are a novelty and not practical to actually shoot something with.

 

I'd almost be willing to bet that there's not a case where somebody was "mowed down" with one of these stocks. At worst I think you'd find where some idiot shot himself while playing with one.

Edited January 29, 2013 by m16ty

[Jonnin]

No crook is going to pay $300 for one of these stocks.  A nutcase maybe, but most of those seem to be guntards who just get something off the shelf.   If someone came to my house today and stole mine,  they would have to *know* to flip the switch on the stock, *know* to push and pull to operate it (this is not intuitive), and would mostly just be frustrated with it because of the thingy that blocks the trigger finger.  And even if, by some supernatural power, the theif manage to figure it out, it would still take 200+ rounds of practice to be able to handle it and make any use of the system.

 

In other words, unless someone with a lot of gun knowledge buys one for evil or snaps, the odds of such a thing being used for criminal activity is low. 

 

As to why it is legal, the BAFTE paper that came with it explains it.   The gun fires one shot per trigger pull and is just a plastic gun stock.  There are no springs or other devices that *do* anything.   There are no grounds to ban/tax/NFA/etc the device because it the shooter is doing all the work to repeatedly pull the trigger.

 

On top of this, it is hard on the gun, and likely to overheat something.  And if you get a squib, its going to be ugly.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Jonnin

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I have always found it interesting that Slidefire stocks were legal.   I wish I had one.

Mike, I finally saw one at Shylock's in Clinton. I pondered that thing a while, went back and forth, and finally bought it. I haven't

tried it, yet, but will soon. They had three of them. If it is a novelty, and may be, I'll just have it to say that. Gotta be fun, though. :D

Mine's a right hand, and I'm a lefty, so it will be fun learning to shoot an AR all over again. I'll bring it next time I'm in your area

so we can go waste some ammo.

[Mike.357]

definitely bring it.  I have seen them shot.  Saw a first time user stay on target with it    I bet they are fun to shoot.

[TMF]

Mike, I finally saw one at Shylock's in Clinton. I pondered that thing a while, went back and forth, and finally bought it. I haven't

tried it, yet, but will soon. They had three of them. If it is a novelty, and may be, I'll just have it to say that. Gotta be fun, though. :D

Mine's a right hand, and I'm a lefty, so it will be fun learning to shoot an AR all over again. I'll bring it next time I'm in your area

so we can go waste some ammo.

 

I fired my uncle's this past Thanksgiving.  After a couple mags I was able to get it running at least 700 rpm.  I've fire a whole lotta FA M4s and this thing will cycle it nearly as fast.

[Chief07]

First, I'll admit I'm not the most knowledgeable about the AR15 and all of its accessories, but I was watching Face The Nation this morning and our beloved Senator Feinstein was babbling on so I decided to listen to what stupidity she could spew.

One thing that I giggled at when was she said that there were these collapsible stocks for the AR15 that made them fully automatic!

Did anyone else see/hear this?

Is there some sort of "bump fire" collapsible stock that will do this?

She belongs in a mental institution.

Good grief. Those people in San Francisco are as nuts as she is. 

[Hozzie]

I have a different opinion of this.  Everyone trying to justify that these stocks aren't the same as full auto, etc, look just as ignorant in my opinion as the democrats trying to say that a foregrip makes a gun more accurate.  I don't care if it is easy to use, or hard to use, or hard to hit what you are aiming at, etc.  To any reasonable person, a slidefire stock does allow the gun to fire at or almost at full auto speeds.  Yes, I know the physics of it and you can say "technically" it's not full auto. That's just excuses that don't help our credibility.  Aiming or not, a fully auto (including a slidefire stocked) gun will hit more things, that's a fact. 

 

Let's be clear, I am not against them and don't think they are the problem, but lets stop making excuses as to why they are not full auto and wouldn't create more damage.  We need to keep in mind that "perception is reality" in the real world, even if we know there are technicalities that don't make it true.  

 

If we expect the other side to bring any reason into the discussion, we should do the same ourselves.  It is not unreasonable in my opinion to equate the use of a slidefire stock with a fully auto rifle.  The average person will not discern a difference.  I am a gun nut and I would consider it full auto for all purposes and intents.

Edited February 1, 2013 by Hozzie

[Jonnin]

I disagree.   If the idiot at sandy hook had had my bumpfire rifle, he would have had 2 choices.  1) try to keep it running (again, a push pull action) while waving it in an arc trying to hit everything in say a 60 degree cone in front of him (about 1 classroom worth).   Likely result: gun stops firing due to the 3 way motion (push, pull, and sweep, very difficult to maintain).   2) fire bursts at each target: likely result: dead kids hit 3-5 times each, identical to what he  did.

 

If he had had a true m16, the sweep would be much easier to do: hold down trigger and spray.  Likely result: many hit once quicky, move to another room to repeat.

 

Yes, it makes sense to call the bumpfire a machinegun like item.  Fine.  The BAFTE disagrees however, and THAT Is a MAJOR point.

[Hozzie]

I disagree. If the idiot at sandy hook had had my bumpfire rifle, he would have had 2 choices. 1) try to keep it running (again, a push pull action) while waving it in an arc trying to hit everything in say a 60 degree cone in front of him (about 1 classroom worth). Likely result: gun stops firing due to the 3 way motion (push, pull, and sweep, very difficult to maintain). 2) fire bursts at each target: likely result: dead kids hit 3-5 times each, identical to what he did.

If he had had a true m16, the sweep would be much easier to do: hold down trigger and spray. Likely result: many hit once quicky, move to another room to repeat.

Yes, it makes sense to call the bumpfire a machinegun like item. Fine. The BAFTE disagrees however, and THAT Is a MAJOR point.

You make my point exactly. Excuses in my opinion. We don't have to agree, I just don't think any reasonable person buys that explanation nor would make the conclusion that an ar-15 with a slide fire stock is no more dangerous than one without. Edited February 1, 2013 by Hozzie

[Jonnin]

I am sure it is more dangerous.   And I certainly am not saying the bafte is reasonable.   I could even accept a free set of papers and a no-charge conversion of the stock to NFA if other demands were met, for example dismiss all other bans/complaints against semi auto rifles including the mag limit.

[Hozzie]

I really believe the House of Reps won't let an awb happen, but I do think bafte may make a sudden reversal on those types of stocks. Magazines are a crap shoot and background checks are almost certain in my opinion. Edited February 1, 2013 by Hozzie

[TMF]

[quote name="Hozzie" post="901575" timestamp="1359693787"]I really believe the House of Reps won't let an awb happen, but I do think bafte may make a sudden reversal on those types of stocks. [/quote] I don't see how unless they redefine the meaning of "full auto". They surely can't ban someone pulling the trigger really fast, which is all this is.

[Jason in TN]

Like I had mentioned I had one sold it fun to play with and burn ammo. Yes it will shoot at near full auto speed but takes some work. In a gun fight to me it would be only good for maybe making some noise and keeping heads down while a partner was able to move. With a lot of practice you may make it workin a tactical situation. To me it is a toy fun to play with but after about 500 rounds I was done with it.


Jason

[Jonnin]

anyway, its another of her red herrings.   I do not think such a stock has been used in a crime to date.  If they were easy to use and useful for actual combat, the smarter gangs and criminals would have them, or even the mass shooter nuts, most of those may be nuts but they prepare well enough.

[mcurrier]

California Councilwoman: You Can Be Shot By An Unloaded Gun!

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