My "I Want An AR Thread"

[Guest Gun Geek]

So many brands so many variations, one major thing I would tell you to look for is it being a gas pistol vs. the standard. They are so much better.

[Guest bkelm18]

And so much more expensive, haha.

[TGO David]

Gas piston designs really shine when you get below 11" of bbl length. Beyond that they are pretty heavy and there is a lot of evidence that they really don't add many advantages to the rifle. The "myth" is that the gas tube design of the M16/AR15 platform isn't as reliable because of fouling. There are members here with a lot more knowledge of and experience with the rifle in honest to god battle situations that have come out pretty strongly against that.

Gas piston is cool, but not necessary in this application.

[TripleDigitRide]

I think Rightwinger's AR is gas. I'm fairly sure I remember him explaining the workings of the system. I'm glad you mentioned this, because I thought all were the same.

[Rightwinger]

Yep, Carbine length gas system. No bells and whistles there.

I shoot spray bore cleaner down the gas tube from time to time and follow that up with CLP. Never had any problems from short stroking or any other signs that the gas system is having a problem.

Besides, a new gas tube is like 12.00 and moderately easy to swap out.

[TripleDigitRide]

Well, I stuck with it. I gave Joe (Hero-Gear) all the information on the lower half, so now I'm waiting to hear back from him.

The upper half will be next.

Edited July 6, 2008 by TripleDigitRide

[Guest db99wj]

So far, I know without a doubt that I'm going with the Spike's Tactical Lower, Ace Skeleton stock, Rock River 2 Stage Trigger, RRA Winter Trigger Guard, and an ERGO Grip. I guess whatever other lower parts will be RRA as well. Those will not change. Well, unless I happen to see a deal I can't pass up.

What is your pricing looking like? (If you know yet)

[TripleDigitRide]

What is your pricing looking like? (If you know yet)

I'm not sure. I'm still waiting on Joe. He's likely busy or has me on ignore. I just sent him the info yesterday morning (I think), so I'll give him a little time.

[Guest db99wj]

I'm not sure. I'm still waiting on Joe. He's likely busy or has me on ignore. I just sent him the info yesterday morning (I think), so I'll give him a little time.

I vote ignore:ugh:. I bet he is just busy.

[TripleDigitRide]

I vote ignore:ugh:. I bet he is just busy.

I'm sure that's the case. I mean, how could anyone want to ignore a wonderful individual such as myself?

[TGO David]

Joe and Dan stay pretty busy at the shop. The best way to get a quick reply on something is to call down to Hero Gear by phone and ask whatever it is that you want to ask about.

[TripleDigitRide]

I'm in no great big hurry. I'm sure they have much more important things going on. I'll give it a few days, and if I don't hear anything, then I'll give him a call.

[TripleDigitRide]

Does the twist rate make much difference? If so, how?

[TGO David]

Does the twist rate make much difference? If so, how?

Yes it makes a difference. You want a faster twist rate for heavier projectiles. If you're going to shoot 55gr then 1 in 9 (slower) works fine. If you're going to shoot heavy loads like 69gr and up, you're going to want a 1 in 7 (faster) twist rate.

Edit... more info here: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7900&highlight=twist+rate

Edited July 8, 2008 by TGO David
Re-worded for clarity

[BimmerFreak]

Well, I stuck with it. I gave Joe (Hero-Gear) all the information on the lower half, so now I'm waiting to hear back from him.

The upper half will be next.

What is your pricing looking like? (If you know yet)

I'm not sure. I'm still waiting on Joe. He's likely busy or has me on ignore. I just sent him the info yesterday morning (I think), so I'll give him a little time.

I vote ignore:ugh:. I bet he is just busy.

Hey man. Sorry I didnt respond yesterday.

I was traveling visiting clients yesterday, and am busy trying to get a ton (ie: 150k +) of orders invoiced and inbound before I leave this Friday for 2 weeks.

I am trying to get time to pull your info together, but may ask Dan to pick this up.

It seems like I have 3 days to get 12 days worth of work done! (story of my life these days... )

[TripleDigitRide]

Hey man. Sorry I didnt respond yesterday.

I was traveling visiting clients yesterday, and am busy trying to get a ton (ie: 150k +) of orders invoiced and inbound before I leave this Friday for 2 weeks.

I am trying to get time to pull your info together, but may ask Dan to pick this up.

It seems like I have 3 days to get 12 days worth of work done! (story of my life these days... )

No problem, Joe. if you have any questions about the info I sent, don't hesitate to let me know. Illl PM my number your way.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

Yes it makes a difference. You want a faster twist rate for heavier projectiles. If you're going to shoot 55gr then 1 in 9 (slower) works fine. If you're going to shoot heavy loads like 69gr and up, you're going to want a 1 in 7 (faster) twist rate.

Edit... more info here: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7900&highlight=twist+rate

Accually, it is not the weight of the bullet that dictates the twist, it is the length of the bullet. But generally, heavier bullets are longer than lighter ones. PRL bullets kinda stepped out of the circle with their Tungsten bullets, ie. 80 grn bullet that was the same diamentions of a 69 grn bullet. in .223 caliber. The best all round twist rate for .223 is an 7.7, but the only makers of that one was Kreiger Barrels. Most barrel makers make an 8 twist barrel ( also 7's and 9's), but it has been proven through years of highpower competition that the best all round twist rate is the 8 twist barrel. If you want to shoot the JLK 90's, then a 6.5 twist rate barrel is required. The most popular bullet in "Service Rifle" competition is the Sierra 77grn MatchKing bullet, used at 200 and 300 yards then either the Sierra 80 or the Berger 80 grain bullets at 600 yards. 80 grain bullets can not be loaded mag length, they must be single fired. Hornady tried a design of a length tolerant 80 grn bullet that was made for "Fin, Fur and Feather", but it never worked out very well and never became popular. It would have been nice, because then a person would have an 80 grain bullet that could be loaded to mag length, which would have given a little more edge for the rapid fire stages at 300 yards. But the Sierra 77grn Matchking and the Berger 73LTB are the most used at this distance.

I have shot 55 grain bullets in an 8 twist at 200 and 300 yards with really good results, but keep in mind, that with the shorter bullets, that too many revolutions on the bullet will make it break up, J4 jacketed bullets are more prone to this then the thicker jacketed bullets. Berger bullets are know for this and hence have started making thicker jacketed match bullet and to date, test by verious competitive shooters have proven great results.

Hornady would be another bullet to look at due to the great prices of their bullets, the only problem is that they are still unable to make a great (Amax) bullet consistantly. But if you happen to get a good lot, they really shine.

[TripleDigitRide]

Basically, I'll need to stick with a certian ammo once I pick a barrel? Does it harm the rifle to use other ammo?

BTW, thanks for the link, Tungy.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

Does it harm the rifle to use other ammo?

May I ask what you mean by that?

[TripleDigitRide]

May I ask what you mean by that?

I meant different grain bullets. Will they have an adverse effect on the barrel.

Edited July 8, 2008 by TripleDigitRide

[Guest bkelm18]

I meant different grain bullets.

No, it will not hurt the rifle at all.

[Guest Mugster]

I meant different grain bullets.

No, different grain bullets cannot hurt your rifle, except in certain weird corner cases.

Here's the deal. A bullet comes out of a barrel like a football with spin to stabilize it. The heavier (really longer) the bullet, the more spin that is needed. If you take a very fragile 35 grain varmint bullet and load it up hot in a tight twist, it could be spun so much that it might just fly apart coming out of the barrel. This happens usually with 35-40gr TNT bullets out of 1 in 7 twist rifles.

Froggy described match class ammo, and what he said was true as far as it goes. Your probably not going to shoot much of it unless you reload or own a bank. Realistically, a 1 in 9 twist is probably what you want. It'll shoot stuff all the way down to 45gr pretty good and also handle 69gr bthp and the new m855 or SS109 (62gr) bullet. The SS109 bullets have a steel cup in them and they are pretty long. 1 in 9 is also really good for 55gr M193 clones as well. I would only consider a 1 in 7 twist on a rifle with less than a 16" barrel (an SBR, to shoot heavy bullets because of the velocity loss) unless i was shooting competition or for some reason just wanted to shoot a heavy bullet.

If you shoot a bullet that is too heavy (too long really) for your twist rate, nothing bad happens. It just wobbles like an old jim mcmahan pass and goes all over your target. Some of the bullets froggy mentioned must be loaded one at a time directly into the chamber because they are too long to fit in a magazine (80gr).

I have 4 ar uppers, 3 have a 1 in 9 twist, while one has a 1 in 12 (old A1). I shoot mostly 55gr stuff with occasional 60, 62, and 65gr thrown in for various forms of hunting.

Also, for long barrel life, I chose to chrome line all of my barrels. I shoot more than most I think, and I can't afford a new barrel every 5k shots. For an occasional plinker, an unlined bore is both a little more accurate and costs less. Chrome lining is easier to clean though. Plusses and minusses. I hope to get 10k rounds through mine with undetectable accuracy deterioration.

Edited July 8, 2008 by Mugster

[TripleDigitRide]

Thanks for the info, everyone. I pretty well have my mind set on the lower parts, now I'm trying to determine what direction to go with the upper.

Thanks again.

[Guest Mugster]

Haha. Black Rifle Disease. You can't have just one.

[TripleDigitRide]

Haha. Black Rifle Disease. You can't have just one.

I have that feeling. But I had to start somewhere. I'm gonna start with exactly what I want, to the best of my financial ability.