Gun Safe question, bolting to the floor

[vontar]

I just put in a new 24 gun Cannon Safe.

 

I have it set where I expect it to stay for a long time.

 

It has 4 drilled holes for this where I unbolted it from the pallet.  Pretty sure the bolt that held it to the pallet are not intended to bolt to the floor.

 

I am planning to bolt it to the floor but I don't know what kind of bolts to buy.  Can someone point me in the right direction on this.  In short, I want to do it right the first time.

Edited January 26, 2013 by vontar

[Guest Joshua__423]

concrete im assuming? if thats the case use a wedge bolt! super strong!

[TripleDigitRide]

What type of floor?

[Dad03]

I could be wrong but you need some lead anchors. They go in the drilled holes in the concrete and the bolts make them expand securing them in the hole.

[vontar]

Wow I forgot to say that.

 

Hardwood flood.

[Guest Joshua__423]

lag bolts?

[Rowdy]

lag bolts?

This^ And make sure they go into the floor joists.

[Randall53]

Most safes are heavy and hard to maneuver. In concrete I'd use red head type threaded drop in anchors that use a normal bolt and washers to hold the safe down over drop in bolt anchors that stick way up over the floor surface when installed. Those will cause you to have lift the safe up over the anchor just so while not damaging the bolt threads. Very hard to do. Drop in anchors can be set flush and you could slide the safe back over the holes containing the anchors and easily line everything up and just use threaded hex head bolts and washers. So, just place the safe, mark the holes, slide the safe far enough to drill the holes and drill according to drop in anchor size requirements and depth. I like red head anchors. Slide the safe back in place, position correctly over the holes and bolt it down.

In wood, I'd use lag bolts and washers. I'd drill a small pilot hole first, like a 1/4 inch hole for a 7/16 lag screw, because I've had some lag bolts heads twist off a lot lately without the pilot hole.. Edited January 26, 2013 by Randall53

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Yeah lag bolts in joists would do the trick. I echo Randall53's sentiment being careful tightening them up. I tend to put the torque of death on fasteners and have broken my share. Have popped several lag bolts, head twisted off right at the top of the screw. Maybe I need to shop for better lag bolts in the future, or maybe just be more careful tightening them.

 

If you twist the head off a lag bolt when it is flush several inches into wood, it is a real PITA to remove it, or insert a new bolt "real close" to the broken one. Just a few weeks ago was putting those "three-caster in a triangle" casters on the legs of a big heavy oak platform bed I made for myself a few years ago. Propping each leg a few inches off the ground and cranking in a 3" lag bolt into the bottom with socket wrench. Got the first three put in, then snapped off the fourth, last lag bolt in the last leg. Wasn't about to disassemble the bed and extract the bolt, so I glued on that last caster. :) !@#$%^%

Edited January 26, 2013 by Lester Weevils

[runco]

I used a steel plate and 4 carriage head 1 inch diameter bolts that had 12 pt heat treat symbols on the head, I think they came from Home Depot. The 1/4" thick steel plate was positioned from the crawl space side, after drilling I ran the bolts up from the crawl space side, then added the nuts from inside safe, done.  I have thought about tack welding the bolts to the steel plate, just for added security.  (edited, you do have to be mindful of the floor joists and the alignment.  My worked out, it was close though.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Runco

[mikegideon]

The holes in the safe probably won't line up with the joists. If they do, lag bolts will work. If they don't, you need allthread long enough to go to a 2x6 or piece of unistrut that spans the bottom of a couple of floor joists. Learned it from a safe guy

[peejman]

The holes in the safe probably won't line up with the joists. If they do, lag bolts will work. If they don't, you need allthread long enough to go to a 2x6 or piece of unistrut that spans the bottom of a couple of floor joists. Learned it from a safe guy

 

 

The chances of the bolt holes just happening to line up with the joists are really small.  Zero if you're me.

 

I hope you reinforced the floor to support the weight of the safe.  If not, do that first and make some provisions to bolt it down in the process.  The unistrut across a couple joists is an excellent idea. 

 

Homes are typically constructed with a 40 lbs/sqft static load rating.  Google tells me your safe is about 2ft x 2ft = 4 sqft and that it weights 410 lbs (empty!).  That's 102 lbs/sqft... more than double what your floor is designed to support.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Those semi-permanent floor jacks you can buy at home depot-- They are just big pipe with bolt holes for gross adjustment and then a screw head for fine adjustment or incremental jacking. Wonder if a couple of those sitting on a basement slab or square footings poured in a crawl space would be adequate to "help out" the joists under a safe?

[Lumber_Jack]

Not to thread hijack....but I will

For bolting to a concrete floor, is there a good way to seal the holes if you sell your house?

[R1100R]

I'm still interested in bolting to concrete floor.

If some one can suggest a link on how to and provide the name of the  correct anchor bolts. Also how to drill the slab it would be appreciated.

Edited January 26, 2013 by R1100R

[decotriumph]

Not to thread hijack....but I will

For bolting to a concrete floor, is there a good way to seal the holes if you sell your house?

Two part epoxy is what I'd use to seal the holes.

[mikegideon]

The chances of the bolt holes just happening to line up with the joists are really small.  Zero if you're me.

 

I hope you reinforced the floor to support the weight of the safe.  If not, do that first and make some provisions to bolt it down in the process.  The unistrut across a couple joists is an excellent idea. 

 

Homes are typically constructed with a 40 lbs/sqft static load rating.  Google tells me your safe is about 2ft x 2ft = 4 sqft and that it weights 410 lbs (empty!).  That's 102 lbs/sqft... more than double what your floor is designed to support.

 

Subfloors are almost always laminated. That gets distributed. Think about it... would a 400lb person punch thru a floor?

[decotriumph]

I'm still interested in bolting to concrete floor.

If some one can suggest a link on how to and provide the name of the  correct anchor bolts. Also how to drill the slab it would be appreciated.

Places like Ace Hardware, Lowe's, etc will have the right anchors.  They will also have drills for drilling concrete,  basically carbide inserted tips on the drill that effectively scrape the concrete away in the shape of a hole! Keep the hole cleared of the dust often or it'll jam up and break your drill or sprain your wrist when it grabs.

Edited January 26, 2013 by decotriumph

[mikegideon]

I'm still interested in bolting to concrete floor.

If some one can suggest a link on how to and provide the name of the  correct anchor bolts. Also how to drill the slab it would be appreciated.

 

Redheads will work. You need the right sized masonry bit. A hammer drill really helps.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Yup, hammer drill helps immensely. Concrete keeps getting harder for years and years. My concrete slab is in the ballpark of 60 or 70 years old and it took a long time to drill safe bolt holes even WITH a hammer drill. But my hammer drill ain't one of the pro big monsters either.

 

You can rent hammer drills.

[Gun Smith]

I believe most bolts from the box stores are from china.   That's why they snap so easy.

 

I am thinking as others,  most likely the joist will not be in the exact desired location if attaching to a wood framed floor system.  If that is the case,  I would drill through the floor to mark my location,  go under the house and add cross blocking (like bridging blocks).  Then I would set the safe and lag to them.  That would keep all your fasteners concealed.

 

If attaching to concrete,  I'd get my hands on a SDS type hammer drill (most rental places offer them).  They make all the difference in the world compared to the plain jane hammer drills,  especially when drilling for bolts compared to the tiny holes screws require.

[battleop]

This is what I use on a concrete floor.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIIw3Vw-wyc

 

If you can't access under the floor look for toggle bolts and washers that are at least 1/2" to 3/4" in diameter.

[hardknox00001]

This is what I use on a concrete floor.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIIw3Vw-wyc

 

If you can't access under the floor look for toggle bolts and washers that are at least 1/2" to 3/4" in diameter.

These are very good.  These allow you to drill your hole, move the safe over the holes, drop these in through the safe and hammer the "nail" down.  To remove safe, you remove the nut and washer and lift the safe off the bolt/stud.

 

They come in a variety of sizes and lengths.  Home Depot or Lowe's and the like won't have them.  You'll have to go to a construction oriented hardware store or to a Fastenal or similar.

Edited January 27, 2013 by hardknox00001

[vontar]

OK, I am bolted down to the floor.  Felt like 2 of them I was able to get into a floor joist.  The other 2 where a complete miss.  I think I will let it warm up a like and make sure those two are drilled completely though the floor and run a locking cable to them under the floor and into the safe..

[runco]

Good to hear, a little peace of mind isn't!  I never did fully understand, did you have crawl space or basement under your floor?  Or was this a hardwood floor on a slab?