PayPal closing accounts

[Red Haired Girl]

I was talking to one of my co-workers today. He has been buying 20 round magazines and reselling them. Paypal shut down his account because they didn't agree with the items he was selling. He tried to reason with them and get a valid explanation. Nothing.

 

PayPal said it is a new policy and is in effect for all sellers of firearms and accessories, including some really big companies who accept PayPal.

[kieefer]

https://www.paypal-search.com/socialsearch/query?q_acInput_acInput=firearm&q_acInput=firearm&q=firearm&cn=paypal&cc=www&st=1&adv=0&mode=live&login_status=0&irFilter=US_en_US_Collection&filter=p

Edited January 25, 2013 by kieefer

[Garufa]

PayPal is well known for being unfriendly toward gun-related transactions and those who participate in them.

[10-Ring]

No loss here, I haven't used PayPal because of their anti gun stance in about 8 years.

[swim615]

They have always been very anti gun.

Edited January 25, 2013 by swim615

[TGO David]

I was talking to one of my co-workers today. He has been buying 20 round magazines and reselling them. Paypal shut down his account because they didn't agree with the items he was selling. He tried to reason with them and get a valid explanation. Nothing.

 

PayPal said it is a new policy and is in effect for all sellers of firearms and accessories, including some really big companies who accept PayPal.

 

Your friend violated eBay's / Paypal's TOS so he shouldn't be surprised.  They clearly state what items you may not use their services for.   This policy isn't new.

[TGO David]

http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/old-forum-news-feedback-problems-comments/25054-paypal-anti-gun.html

 

Folks should read that.  I'm not going to waste my time repeating what I've said before and what he said quite clearly there.

[DaveTN]

No loss here, I haven't used PayPal because of their anti gun stance in about 8 years.

Did they change PayPal being the only way to get benefactor status here?

I thought PayPal banned gun related items a long time ago? I thought that was why people were requiring PayPal “gift” for payment?

[TGO David]

Did they change PayPal being the only way to get benefactor status here?
 

 

They?

 

Do any of you realize that TGO is not a business?  It's not some company-run entity.  There's literally one person behind it.  Me. 

 

Yes, we have volunteer moderators who help keep the forums moving smoothly, but every single piece of technology that runs under this site... every debt that it incurs... every bill that gets paid to keep the lights on for you... it's all me and I do it on top of my normal 50hr a week job and it takes away anywhere from 20-30 more hours of time from my family each week so that I can provide this site to the firearms community.

 

There is no THEY and the decision to accept PayPal was made out of necessity and desperation to streamline the process because there's only so many hours in the damn week.  Frankly this thread irritates me and comments like yours piss me off because it opens up a whole 'nother mess of things I have to explain.

 

The bottom line is you guys better hope PayPal doesn't stop letting us collect contributions to keep TGO running because when they do it's going to cause a whole lot of grief for not only this forum but dozens of others like it that depend on those contributions to keep our web servers lit.

 

But hey, let's sit around and bitch about someone getting their account shut down for violating PayPal's terms of service and cast disapproving glances towards TGO for being in bed with the enemy.  Because THAT makes my life better.  When you talk about PayPal potentially fucking a gun forum like TGO, you're talking about them fucking ME.

 

So if one of you guys owns a credit card processing company that will let me set up as a sole proprietor and not claim nearly 20% of everything the members contribute in fees and leave me with enough to pay for the bandwidth, server resources, software licenses and all of the other crap that we've become accustomed to having any time we get bored and want to aim our cell-phones and computers at this little corner of the Internet, I'll drop PayPal tomorrow and start running all of our Benefactor memberships through that instead of PayPal.  But until then I personally hope to God they leave us the hell alone.

[ArmyBrat61]

Never in the course of Internet events have so many owed so much to so few...........if I still smoked, I'd send you a cigar, TGO David. Thank you for your work and time to TGO. May I suggest a mailing address for contributions for those that do not wish to support PP? I don't know if that idea has been vetted or is even feasible....?

[East_TN_Patriot]

I run my holster business using Pay Pal.  When I set up my account, they did look at my website and contacted me to confirm that I was not selling firearms or prohibited items, the list of which has been the same for years.  I've never had any problems selling my gun-related items and Pay Pal has been helpful in resolving any problems when they pop up.

[TGO David]

Never in the course of Internet events have so many owed so much to so few...........if I still smoked, I'd send you a cigar, TGO David. Thank you for your work and time to TGO. May I suggest a mailing address for contributions for those that do not wish to support PP? I don't know if that idea has been vetted or is even feasible....?

 

50 hrs a week worked.  20-30 hrs a week worked on top of that for TGO.  I simply do not have time to do mailed in payments.  It's 2013, so we're leveraging the power of e-commerce to make my life easier.

 

In a word, no.  Sorry.  Did it before and it was a huge pain in the ass.  Especially those weeks that we too a vacation or someone was sick or I worked 60hrs for my regular job and didn't make it to the post office only to have someone bitch me out here for not processing their bad check in a timely manner.

 

And, yeah... bad checks.  Those were always fun.

 

Hate to vent, but you asked.  :)

[TripleDigitRide]

People still write checks? That's so 2002, for me anyway.

[Wingshooter]

You can purchase those "other" items with a PP debit card.... that's what I heard anyway :whistle:

 

It's free to apply and earn cash back with POS purchases.

[Red Haired Girl]

 I am sorry. Truly I am. I did not intend to piss anyone off or cause anyone to get upset. Lock the thread or remove it.

[Oh Shoot]

Perhaps a closing comment: eBay/PayPal has actually loosened restrictions on firearm related items over time, with a big change about nine months ago.

 

Used to be you couldn't sell components that were necessary to make a gun actually fire, which included barrels, triggers, firing pins, magazines, receivers, bolts, you name it.

 

- OS

[wareagle]

I agree with OS. PayPal is nothing compared to most banks, credit card and EFT exchanges. Read the terms of service on the accounts that fund your PayPal accounts. We are all sleeping with the enemy. Edited January 26, 2013 by wareagle

[East_TN_Patriot]

I agree with OS. PayPal is nothing compared to most banks, credit card and EFT exchanges. Read the terms of service on the accounts that fund your PayPal accounts. We are all sleeping with the enemy.

 

I would disagree.  Many people assume that PayPal has adopted its policies because of a political stance on firearms.  Much more likely is that their policies have been driven by statutes and concerns about litigation in case they are implicated in a transaction that let to the unlawful or negligent use of a firearm.  Even if PayPal was nothing more than the entity that transferred the funds, they are part of the transaction, and they are the ones with the deep pockets that would be guaranteed to be part of any lawsuit.  Considering we have states that want to sue gun makers for gun crimes and thousands of attorneys always looking for a quick buck through a settlement, PayPal has insulated themselves from being party to a lawsuit.  I don't like it any more than anyone else, but that is the world we live in right now.

 

For those not aware, there was a failed effort to start a more gun-friendly alternative to PayPal.  The endeavor started out as GunPal, and then became known as GPal. The service was started by Ben Cannon of CalGuns fame and basically went belly up with many vendors unable to collect money from their accounts.  Cannon was charged criminally, but best info I've seen says that he was basically guilty of being a lousy businessman.  Fortunately, I never actually used my GPal account, so I wasn't out any money.

GunsAmerica also tried the same project, but was unable to make it work.  According to them:
 

Several years ago GunsAmerica tried to create our own third party payment system for guns. We even own the domain guncash.com. Unfortunately we discovered quickly that, when it came to “underwriting” such a system, our industry is too small. There is not enough money in it to risk the tens of millions of dollars to underwrite and FDIC insure all of the money coming and going.

So, basically we are stuck with what we have and we use it for what we can and find other ways to send money for transactions that are prohibited.  It's their service, so we play by their rules or don't play at all.

[Oh Shoot]

I agree with OS. PayPal is nothing compared to most banks, credit card and EFT exchanges. Read the terms of service on the accounts that fund your PayPal accounts. We are all sleeping with the enemy.

 

Didn't seem like you agreed with me at all. I wasn't ragging on PayPal. As David and ET Patriot state, it's the best existing solution for many a purpose, as long as you can use it under its TOS.

 

I also agree with ET Patriot -- I have never seen one whit of evidence that eBay or PayPal gives one little damn about firearms on a political level. Like Walmart, all decisions are made by micro-managing spread sheets; I'm sure they'd love to cover guns and ammo, but their figures must indicate that their liability is greater than the increased profit. 

 

If they were "anti gun" there wouldn't be anything at all gun related allowed. Would actually be a much more easily enforced policy on their part, too.

 

- OS

Edited January 26, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Monkeyman2500]

Holy Crap Dave. Your the man buddy. Just sent you and the NRA some cash money through you guessed it, paypal. Keep up the great work!

[Just2Honor]

How do I contribute more to the running of the site than my Benefactor fee?

Edited January 26, 2013 by RoadKill

[Keyless]

I joined the NRA GOA and TFA today and paid for one of them by pay pal but I dont remember wich one ..I try and use it as little as possible .

 

  I sold some mags and ammo on Gun Broker last week and told them only put the auction number in and I would take pay pal. Funny thing is how many items on ebay that are gun related are now being paid for by PP . Ebay is now selling gun parts as well .

[Slpeod]

[quote name="Batman" post="896127" timestamp="1359160043"]You can purchase those "other" items with a PP debit card.... that's what I heard anyway :whistle:   It's free to apply and earn cash back with POS purchases.[/quote] I have one of those... - its linked to Brownells, midway, G&R, rainier etc

[Parrothead]

How do I contribute more to the running of the site than my Benefactor fee?

 

Interesting question. I'd say a few (including myself) would pay a little more for operation of the forum. Can you create another "level" of membership or open a donation account?

[RobertY]

OT - kind of

 

Several years ago I had my PayPal account frozen. I immediantly emailed them asking why. Their reply to me was that they do not allow purchases from "those" type of establishments that I had made a purchase from and that my account would be frozen for an undetermined amount of time. The email mystified me, so I called them.

 

On the phone I finally got a hold of a real person instead of a computer menu that ran one in circles. I asked them point blank about why my account was frozen. They then started to explain to me that I had made "adult" purchases from a store and at this time they do not allow that. I was totally confused because I had never made "adult" purchases and I told them so. The rep told me that we need to look into possible theft of my information. Out of curiousity I asked them the name of the business where the purchase was made.

"Bimbos", was their reply.

I sat their for a moment dumbfounded and then because it was so absurb started laughing. I explained to them that Bimbos was not an adult store, but a local business that sold fireworks, gas, and sandwhiches. Yes, I had made a purchase there, the wife and I had been hungry and we bought a few subs there one day a few weeks ago. I asked them to please confirm what I had told them and to call the business and gave them their phone number.

It still took about a week more before they unfroze my account.

 

PayPal can be downright silly at times. LOL!