So you think your safe is safe?

[TripleDigitRide]

I'm going to credit our very own 'itchytriggerfinger' for posting this link in another thread. I thought it was worthy of its own.

I watched all of the videos, and I couldn't believe just how easily a child could possibly open some of these safes. One was even opened with a straw. Your biometric safes aren't any safer.

If you have one of these safes, or are even considering one, I suggest you watch these videos.

http://www.thesidebar.org/insecurity/?p=793 Edited January 25, 2013 by TripleDigitRide

[av88tor]

Very good link, what this gentleman says is very true about the small pistol safes that he describes. 

[Will H]

It's a wonder we did not all die growing up with dad's long guns in a glass case and handguns in the top of his closet, over the stove, on top the tv, all loaded.  I am all for gun safety, but geez...

 

Sorry, I know we have to change with the times, and embrace new safety ideas and innovations, but sometimes it gets to me. 

[StPatrick]

 I am all for gun safety, but geez...

 

Sorry, I know we have to change with the times, and embrace new safety ideas and innovations, but sometimes it gets to me. 

 

 

Check your premises.  Compare your "old" ideas to the "new" and decide whether the new ideas are any better before anything else.

[Will H]

Oh yeah, and I am all for the increased safety...  It just bugs me sometimes is all.

[TGO David]

You're missing the point of why you need a safe.  It's not about keeping you safe from your guns, it's about keeping your guns and other valuables safe from home robberies, fires, etc.

[tnhawk]

Any safe or alarm only provides a temporary delay.  The more difficult, the more likely a easier target will be picked.

[peejman]

Gee.... cheap gun cabinets don't work quite as well as 10x more expensive safes.  There's a shocker.

 

I know full well that the cabinets I have provide near zero security from a skilled theif or fire.  But they do keep my kids out, and that's all I intend them for.

[gnmwilliams]

I've been looking at getting a small one like this for the nightstand but won't be getting any of these now. Anybody have any recommendations? Not looking to keep a robber out. If they want it bad enough they'll get it. This will simply be used to store one while I'm home when it's not on my person. Edited January 25, 2013 by gnmwilliams

[2.ooohhh]

I use a Gun Vault Nanovault 200 when away from home, but I upgraded the lock to an abloy protec that matches my home gun set and firmly attached them to vehicles. The whole setup is under $100@ so I could afford to duplicate it in all the cars and one with only a cable for use in hotel rooms.

 

It's more secure than most b/c it has no spring tension securing it, and if you get a captive abloy lock you can't accidently leave it unlocked whith out leaving the key in it.

 

Lock source

 

 

Nanovault 200 Source

 

 

 

Deviant did a rather entertaining look at firearm security failures.

Deviant Ollam's Defcon 19 Presentation (NSFW language)

Edited January 25, 2013 by 2.ooohhh

[KaNuckles]

"Creative concealment" is a good option. Depending on how you go about it it can be fireproof (somewhat anyway), it can be made very secure, and you can't steal what you can't find. i have a great spot in my house and i have an idea how to make it happen. 

[TN-popo]

[quote name="gnmwilliams" post="895504" timestamp="1359120911"]Not looking to keep a robber out. If they want it bad enough they'll get it. This will simply be used to store one while I'm home when it's not on my person.[/quote] Not giving your "Attack Weim" any credit... ;)

[Wingshooter]

At least I know how to get into my bedside safe now if I ever get locked out :lol:

 

My small safe's only purpose is to keep my 5 year old away from my bedside pistol. However, after watching the video of "my safe", I can see a simple modification that would strengthen it. Thanks for the link

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I guess the problem is, maybe the manufacturers and customers of "insecure safes" are not of the criminal mindset and can't imagine how to get inside them, but kids who know the internet or thieves who make a business of it, seem fairly certain to know the easy ways in?

 

Dunno what to do about it though. There's probably a way in about any of them if one were a scholar in breaking and entering.

 

Now that Mark Tobias fellow has some neat videos though. This one is about Japanese puzzle boxes, of which I had no idea existed. A puzzle box made of chrome steel might be very difficult to enter, though the wooden ones, regardless how ingenius, would give it up to a circular saw, handsaw, or even the good old sledge hammer. Watching the man open the puzzle box requiring hundreds of steps, I can imagine a bedside pistol safe made of the puzzle box principle. Wake up in the middle of the night with a crash of glass, and merely go thru a few hundred steps manipulating little moving parts, withdraw your pistol and defend yourself! :)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAG4FCtW3HU

[gjohnsoniv]

While I do have a safe for some guns I'm still of the mindset if you can't find it you can't take it.

[TMF]

I use a Gun Vault Nanovault 200 when away from home, but I upgraded the lock to an abloy protec that matches my home gun set and firmly attached them to vehicles. The whole setup is under $100@ so I could afford to duplicate it in all the cars and one with only a cable for use in hotel rooms.

 

It's more secure than most b/c it has no spring tension securing it, and if you get a captive abloy lock you can't accidently leave it unlocked whith out leaving the key in it.

 

Lock source

 

 

Nanovault 200 Source

 

 

 

Deviant did a rather entertaining look at firearm security failures.

Deviant Ollam's Defcon 19 Presentation (NSFW language)

 

 

I also have a Gunvault brand bedside safe.  Looks like those are pretty secure.  Of course, anything can be breached with the proper amount of time and effort.  Since my Gunvault isn't secured to anything I suppose they could just grab it and smash it open later.  Whoopdeedoo I guess.  I only have it so I can access it quickly at night without worrying about having a gun out which my kids can access.  If someone breaks in while I'm gone and scores a $400 Glock I can just claim it on my homeowner's insurance.  Not too worried about that happening as I have 3 dogs and an alarm system.  Pretty sure that'll make them choose a different house after casing mine.

[Spiffy]

You're missing the point of why you need a safe.  It's not about keeping you safe from your guns, it's about keeping your guns and other valuables safe from home robberies, fires, etc.

 

This is why I got 2 safes. One for the collection and one for the defensive guns. I can put them in it in bedroom and have access to them since the door isnt locked. I lock it when no one is home and its open when someone is home so they have access to a weapon.

[gnmwilliams]

[quote name="TN-popo" post="896163" timestamp="1359161556"]Not giving your "Attack Weim" any credit... ;)[/quote] You kiddin me? That little buster would probably sell me out for a couple biscuits! :)

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I also have a Gunvault brand bedside safe.  Looks like those are pretty secure.  Of course, anything can be breached with the proper amount of time and effort.  Since my Gunvault isn't secured to anything I suppose they could just grab it and smash it open later.  Whoopdeedoo I guess.  I only have it so I can access it quickly at night without worrying about having a gun out which my kids can access.  If someone breaks in while I'm gone and scores a $400 Glock I can just claim it on my homeowner's insurance.  Not too worried about that happening as I have 3 dogs and an alarm system.  Pretty sure that'll make them choose a different house after casing mine.

 

I have a 15 year old "palmer security products" small bedroom pistol safe with the 5 button programmable mechanical lock. Maybe a lock-picker would know a magic combination to open it in 10 seconds, but it is pretty solid heavy steel and the no-battery lock seems pretty strong. There's some other company that sells similar pistol safes nowadays with the same all-mechanical lock, can't recall the name, but AFAIK Palmer Security Products might be no more.

 

I programmed mine to require a sequence of three button combinations. It opens quick, and I open it all the time and the lock hasn't worn out after 15 years so its a pretty solid mechanism.

 

It could be bypassed by a smart kid or anyone who knows binary permutations, given an hour or possibly less, if they understand the principle. All you would have to do is draw up a chart of all the button combinations and keep pressing combinations and turning the little knob until you find the right one. But it wouldn't be "instant access" and would require a sledge hammer or grinder or whatever for persons too dumb to know permutations. Unless it has some hidden weakness where a knowledgable lock picker just knocks three time on the side of the unit and it pops right open. :)

 

Until recently it was bolted to a big heavy cabinet in the bedroom, set up so it would be real inconvenient to unbolt. So a burglar either steals the entire big heavy cabinet or he takes a sledge hammer to the cabinet and carries off the pistol safe to grind it open at leisure, or whatever.

 

But finally got rid of that eyesore cabinet over christmas, and haven't figured out how to tack it down. Lots of people will bolt little pistol boxes to the bedroom floor and I could do that, but the 70 year old oak floors are real purty and am not inclined to drill holes in it.

[Guest carter]

I guess the problem is, maybe the manufacturers and customers of "insecure safes" are not of the criminal mindset and can't imagine how to get inside them, but kids who know the internet or thieves who make a business of it, seem fairly certain to know the easy ways in?

 

Dunno what to do about it though. There's probably a way in about any of them if one were a scholar in breaking and entering.

 

Now that Mark Tobias fellow has some neat videos though. This one is about Japanese puzzle boxes, of which I had no idea existed. A puzzle box made of chrome steel might be very difficult to enter, though the wooden ones, regardless how ingenius, would give it up to a circular saw, handsaw, or even the good old sledge hammer. Watching the man open the puzzle box requiring hundreds of steps, I can imagine a bedside pistol safe made of the puzzle box principle. Wake up in the middle of the night with a crash of glass, and merely go thru a few hundred steps manipulating little moving parts, withdraw your pistol and defend yourself! :)

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAG4FCtW3HU

 

ummmm i say open it in one move ((gets his 20 pound sledge hammer)) :ph34r: with my slick ninjeeeee moves and one swift judy chop!

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Yep a wood puzzle box would only be good to foil "sneak thieves" who want to get inside the box without the owner ever knowing about it. A steel puzzle box would at least require a grinder or whatever one's favorite destructive tool. If it was case-hardened steel, torch or grinder? Hardened steel would eliminate such as metal bandsaws, would take the teeth right off a metal bandsaw blade?

[East_TN_Patriot]

And thanks to this douchebag, our kids and criminals can now learn how to break into our lock-boxes with a simple Google search.  And of course the simple demonstration wasn't sufficient, so they actually take them apart to show you the internal mechanism to make it even easier for a criminal or determined youngster to gain access.  And what really gets my goat is his constant "the state of California calls this a secure container and it's not secure at all."  All that will do is force the gun grabbers to start removing these from the approved list forcing people to buy lock-boxes they can't afford when these are more than sufficient for most people's needs.   Finally, they are effectively teaching lock picking techniques that can defeat many common locks that we all use to secure our property. 

Edited January 31, 2013 by East_TN_Patriot

[Spiffy]

A lock box is never a safe.

[2.ooohhh]

And thanks to this douchebag, our kids and criminals can now learn how to break into our lock-boxes with a simple Google search.  And of course the simple demonstration wasn't sufficient, so they actually take them apart to show you the internal mechanism to make it even easier for a criminal or determined youngster to gain access.  And what really gets my goat is his constant "the state of California calls this a secure container and it's not secure at all."  All that will do is force the gun grabbers to start removing these from the approved list forcing people to buy lock-boxes they can't afford when these are more than sufficient for most people's needs.   Finally, they are effectively teaching lock picking techniques that can defeat many common locks that we all use to secure our property. 

 

If it's really secure, you shouldn't be able to make a video circumventing the access control in seconds. This is not on the people exposing the weakness but the product manufacturers and designers.

 

Americans are conditioned to look for what is cheap and readily available. (i.e. Wal-mart) If you want security neither cheap nor readily available should be on your list of features.

 

One reason I recommend Abloy when people ask about my locks is that you CAN'T walk into a hardware store and buy key blanks, and you CAN'T find them on the lock isle at Home Depot so 99 out of 100 professional thieves won't know anything about them other than they are like nothing that they have encountered before. If you want something secure you have to be willing to go farther out of your way to secure it than someone will be willing to go to access it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That padlock above has NO spring activated latch to be able to bypass, the key must be turned to allow the bearings to retract to open the lock. You've now made the weakness the lockbox itself rather than the lock. 

 

The advantage being that if there is no sign of forcible entry(spring latch circumvention typically leaves no trace) many insurance companies will make it much harder to be reimbursed b/c you didn't take sufficient means to secure your valuables. 

[kieefer]

Looked over their site, Abloy, couldn't find where you can buy these locks.