Knoxville Police Looking at New Pistols

[Sam1]

Thank you, I just thought 357Sig might the next new wave considering all the hub bub and penetration abilities.

 

Honestly with ballistics, you can get .45's with a crap ton of penetration if that's what you need. My wife is about 110 pounds soaking wet in winter clothes and she can do follow up shots much faster and more accurately with a 45 than with the sig. the sigs have a lot of snap to them

Edited January 23, 2013 by Sam1

[TMF]

[quote name="Sam1" post="893509" timestamp="1358941462"] the sigs have a lot of snap to them[/quote] They do, and they are prone to stove piping when shot limp wristed, or at least the older P226 I had was. Took me a while to figure out why it only malfunctioned when my mom and my girlfriend shot it.

[leroy]

There are some politics involved in this decision. I have spoken to someone in the department that said it is not about needs. I heard this about a year ago.

 

Dolomite

Bein and geezer and a firm believer in the badness of the majority of mankind (...especially those grazing at the public trough...); my guess is that it's about the dollars (...into someones pocket, that is...).   Never discount the power of "....kickbacks, bribes, and influence peddling...".   It's always been there.  I well remember hearin a speech given by a CEO whom i wont name who said:  "....This place does pretty well, but i intend to make it like all other corporations...".  He did just that; and very quickly: ... he and his buddies filled it full of "bribes, kickbacks, and influence peddling...  I'm like some other posters here, they aint gonna wear anything out.  They dont shoot enough.  I say its more largesse at the public trough.

 

doubtin leroy

[Garufa]

[quote]The chief said hollow-point, 230-grain ammunition for the .45-caliber weapons will be made special for the Police Department.[/quote]

 

I wonder what this special "KPD load" will be? 

[battleop]

What are they going to do with their old "worn out" Glocks?

Probably trade them in.  I picked up a Glock 22 at GT Distributors (well my wife picked it up for Valentines Day) in the $300-350 with 3 15 round mags.  The slide has wear on it from going in and out of the holster but that was fine because I use it as my CCW gun and I don't have to worry about it getting dinged up from daily handling.

[battleop]

People do strange things under stress and a Glock is about as simple as it gets to operate under stress.

 

Dolomite

 

They are kind of like a high capacity revolver. :)

[Patton]

Honestly with ballistics, you can get .45's with a crap ton of penetration if that's what you need.

Police Departments are no different than any other large buisness. They often make choices and purchases that are less ideal. I don't think this is a bad purchase but I do feel a 45acp has some flaws. Low capacity and poor performance against body armor are two of the biggest.
The 1911 that someone saw most likely was a SWAT guy. Other than the CALEA consideration departments get new guns because they get great tradein deals.

[Guest Mad4rcn]

CDNN seems to get a lot of them. People grab 'em and shoot another 50K rounds through them.

 

Or that place just across the line in GA from 'Nooga, always forget the name.

 

- OS

 

GT'S

[1gewehr]

Brand new Meprolight night sights for the Glocks would have been less than $100 each.  And Glock down in Smyrna, GA does refurbs that meet CALEA standards.  It's not about 'worn-out guns'.  It's about 'new toys'.

 

Other police departments that use Glocks usually run them through Glock's refurb program every 3-4 years.  If KPD has been using their Glocks for more than four years, I'd be surprised if they haven't already been doing this as well.

[Patton]

I was told that the last time the Catoosa County Sheriffs Department(GA) switched from Gen3 to Gen4 Glocks it cost them $79 a piece. I don't know what these agencies have paid to trade their Glocks for Sigs.
Edit: I just now remembered that one agency received grant money to upgrade to the Sigs. Edited January 23, 2013 by Patton

[DWARREN123]

Sounds like someone does not like Glocks! 

How do you wear out a Glock or any other good pistol in 4 years?

[Patton]

Sounds like someone does not like Glocks!
How do you wear out a Glock or any other good pistol in 4 years?

You don't, it's all about having nice new stuff and bragging that you are a CALEA agency. Edited January 23, 2013 by Patton

[luvmyberetta]

Sounds like someone does not like Glocks! 

How do you wear out a Glock or any other good pistol in 4 years?

 

Glock suggests they change out every 4 years while SIG suggests every 10 years. The officers that tried the SIG also said they were more accurate with them & had better ergonomics. IMO, the move to SIG P220's would be an improvement. Here's another article about it...  http://www.wbir.com/news/article/250556/2/KPD-aims-to-trade-for-more-powerful-handguns?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Cbc%7Clarge

[Patton]

No doubt about it, the Sig 220 is a mighty fine firearm.

[JayC]

You don't, it's all about having nice new stuff and bragging that you are a CALEA agency.

 

Don't forget wasting crap tons of taxpayer money in the process :)

[Smokeman13b]

Here's a litlle more info....http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/jan/23/kpd-switching-to-higher-caliber-service-weapons/

 

For what it's worth, I saw a KPD officer carrying a 1911 about a month ago when I first heard they were switching over.  He must have been evaluating.

A gentleman that I used to know that worked for KPD used to carry a Beretta while everyone else was carrying Glock. According to him, the department has an issued weapon but also has an approved firearm list and an officer can provide his own preferred sidearm as long as it is on the approved duty gun list and it is signed off by the Chief. Can't say that is gospel, but my grandfather carried his own S&W as a Captain with Knox County before he retired. That was after they went Glock also.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Here's a litlle more info....http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/jan/23/kpd-switching-to-higher-caliber-service-weapons/

 

For what it's worth, I saw a KPD officer carrying a 1911 about a month ago when I first heard they were switching over.  He must have been evaluating.

Likely SWAT officer as they are allowed to carry whatever they want. Or at least that was the way it was with KCSO. I can't imagine KPD being much different with regards to their SWAT officers.

 

The evals were done 6+ months ago. The decision is more political and about money to be made in the deal if I remember correctly.

 

Dolomite

[Guest 270win]

I would not be surprised if the Sigs have the DAK trigger and not DA/SA.  Shelby County and Memphis use Sigs with the DAK trigger.  I've looked over a Sig with the DAK and it is like a light revolver trigger pull.  Pretty nice trigger.

[Patton]

Most agencies are going DAK nowadays if for no other reason to get a lighter first pull(Secret Service).
If it is a expense to taxpayers, it is a small expense to improve morale in the department because I can guarantee they are excited about it. I bet it may cost almost nothing with police trade-ins snd confiscated firearm tradeins. The grants for firearm upgrades are out there but I understand that comes as a tax funding.

[Garufa]

The approval for this was granted at last night's City Council meeting.  The agenda packet (meeting minutes are not yet posted) indicates Sig P220R's are the choice.  600 Glocks are to be traded in along with 59 other weapons in police inventory, including 4 Thompson's, 2 Reising's and 7 M&P-5's, for 225 P226R's, 12 Ultra Compact Sig 1911's 1 H&K UMO .45 submachine gun, services, warrenties, etc.

 

Here is a link: look for the "Agenda Packet"  next to the January 22nd meeting entry and watch out, it's a big pdf.  Go to page 423 and read from there, if you're really all that interested.  http://knoxvillecitytn.iqm2.com/Citizens/Default.aspx

Edited January 23, 2013 by Garufa

[TnShooter83]

The approval for this was granted at last night's City Council meeting.  The agenda packet (meeting minutes are not yet posted) indicates Sig P220R's are the choice.  600 Glocks are to be traded in along with 59 other weapons in police inventory, including 4 Thompson's, 2 Reising's and 7 M&P-5's, for 225 P226R's, 12 Ultra Compact Sig 1911's 1 H&K UMO .45 submachine gun, services, warrenties, etc.

 

Here is a link: look for the "Agenda Packet"  next to the January 22nd meeting entry and watch out, it's a big pdf.  Go to page 423 and read from there, if you're really all that interested.  http://knoxvillecitytn.iqm2.com/Citizens/Default.aspx

 

According to that report, it looks like they are trading their Glocks in and paying an additional $13,500 for 225x Sig P22R and 59x 
"other" needed firearms. So that works out to $47.54 for each firearm. Sounds cheap enough to me. But how many Glock pistols are they trading in?

It also states the cost for the P220R is $990. 

 

If anyone cares to know, Elmer Arms South, LLC. Dandridge, TN, has the contract. 

Edited January 23, 2013 by TnShooter83

[Garufa]

Sicne you didn't read my post.....

 

Trading in:

 

600 Glocks

4 Thompson submachine guns

2 Reising submachine guns

7 H&K MP-5 submachine guns

1 "Colt" submachine guns

6 37mm grenade launchers

300,000 rounds ammo

6 .22 rifles

52 12 gauge shotguns.

 

all that for:

 

225 Sig Sauer P220R handguns w/5 mags each

11 Sig "Ultra Compact" 1911's

1 H&K UMO .45 submachine gun

Training, warranties, and technical support.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Garufa

[TnShooter83]

Sounds good to me.

 

 

 

And by the way, no I really didn't read your post in full. I jumped to the link and an attempted to go from there.

I'll try and do better next time.....

[Mark A]

So this made me look at some numbers about the KPD

Approx 384 officers. This seems low by the time you divide by 3 shifts, add in time off and subtract mgmt and other non-patrol officers.

2011 budget: 49 million. Seems like a lot but maybe not.

Need to poke around some more to confirm those numbers.


Anyone have an idea on how many sidearms you need per officer in general to cover maintenance and other things? Is it 10% extra?


Just curious in general, Mark

[AUG]

I have heard many reasons for this switch and not a single one of them was a problem with the current gun or caliber.