How Much Time Left?

[Dennis1209]

No truer words were ever written. "A house divided against itself can not stand". That applies to individuals, families, relationships, employment, governments and nations.

 

Could we as a nation be on the cusp of national self destruction and all out rebellion against our Washington masters?

 

Make no mistake, we are a nation as divided as the culmination of the 1865 war of aggression. We have the left and right, the conservatives and liberals, the Republicans and Democrats, the working and the people who we owe a living, the self sufficient and dependents, the have's and have not's, etc.

 

We have a Federal Government who takes part of the taxes we pay and supports Planned Parenthood, executing millions of innocent babies in the womb and calls it a "Constitutional Right". Then a president who shamelessly surrounds himself around children and denounces our Constitutional 2nd Amendment Right and bad, bad guns. Is it me or is something wrong with that picture?

 

We have a large segment of the population on generational welfare and it's called an "entitlement". I worked for 42 years and paid dearly into the system and it's called a "benefit". But let's not mince words and meanings.

 

Let's pass hate laws and establish days to celebrate things our forefathers would find reprehensible, disgusting and morally bankrupt.

 

Let's keep our Southern boarders open and allow terrorists, drug cartels, illegal immigrants, disease and poverty to continue to flood our nation and prosecute those brave men and women protecting our borders with unfounded charges.

 

Let's use the full faith and credit clause of the United States and get trillions in debt, with no intention of ever slowing it down or paying the debt back, because it's impossible. The American people, not the government is responsible for the national debts, that's a fact. Why can't a state, county, city or individual print legal money at will, with no backing or even promise to pay?

 

Our political system... Why in the hell would anyone spend hundreds of thousands, millions, tens of millions or hundreds of millions of dollars to obtain a political elected office paying a modest wage? To me it seems either you want to end the plunder or participate in it and have an agenda contrary to your constituents. Does anyone really accept big money from individuals, business, corporations, etc. without disregarding the wishes of his / her constituents and bending to the will of the donor and contributor?  

 

Point / Counter Point anyone?

[hipower]

Dennis, I don't think there is a possible rational counter-point to what you've said.

 

Our country is politically, financially, and now morally bankrupt. With those on the dark side in power and leading the downhill slide to catastrophic speeds with little or no brakes; I fear that it doesn't really look all to promising for the future. 

Edited January 20, 2013 by hipower

[Fourtyfive]

Bummer , I just thought I was imagining all this......

[DaveTN]

Point / Counter Point anyone?

Our society is driven by money. Not many people are going to be ready to overthrow the government or have a civil war when they fully understand the consequences. Our economy might collapses and put us in turmoil, but it won’t be because of gun laws or overthrowing the government.

 

And if you should decide we need a new government I can assure you it will not be the one you have in mind. Look around you.

[East_TN_Patriot]

I think DaveTN is in the right track.  I'm not so sure I would agree with the statement that we are as divided as we've ever been since the Civil War.  The US has been involved in many internal conflicts since then.  The US Civil War was the disagreement over states' rights, but the driving issue was slavery, which was a major economic influence.  In other words, it was the threat to people's livelihoods through abolition of slavery that drove us to war with states' rights being the philosophical justification for protecting slavery.  I would suggest that if there were any issue that would drive us to civil unrest, it would likely be the gun rights issue.  It's kind of like the schoolyard bully picking a fight with the one kid in school that can fight back.  Most gun owners believe very strongly in their 2nd Amendment rights and I feel that there is a pretty big portion of that group who is grumbling very loudly over the threats to restrict gun ownership.  One other factor in play here is our shaky economic conditions.  Many of the people directly affected by the proposed gun restrictions are the same folks feeling the pinch in our current economy, and they blame the same politicians for screwing up the economy.  When you combine these two things, it could be the recipe for people to move from words to action.  I hope it never comes to that point, but when one looks at the history of civil unrest, it's the times of economic decline combined with a perceived loss of political efficacy that are usually present.

[Dennis1209]

Our society is driven by money. Not many people are going to be ready to overthrow the government or have a civil war when they fully understand the consequences. Our economy might collapses and put us in turmoil, but it won’t be because of gun laws or overthrowing the government.

 

And if you should decide we need a new government I can assure you it will not be the one you have in mind. Look around you.

 

I'm not advocating civil war or such, I'm stating the "divide" and hostility toward our government I'm witnessing. I personally don't want the chains and restrictions government is trying to impose on me, much less forcefully paying for government sponsored programs that might have made many of you here non-existent.

 

And yes, I believe your last sentence is so true. We are a nation in rapid terminal decline.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Our society is driven by money. Not many people are going to be ready to overthrow the government or have a civil war when they fully understand the consequences. Our economy might collapses and put us in turmoil, but it won’t be because of gun laws or overthrowing the government.

 

And if you should decide we need a new government I can assure you it will not be the one you have in mind. Look around you.

I think Dennis understands that. His point is the car is stuck in reverse. This nation is not driven by money, though. Money is not 

to blame. The blame is that people wish to make excuses for what is considered irrational, instead of dealing with a problem.

Money is only a tool rational people use to trade for value...

 

What can anyone assure if he is faced with a problem like that?

[Moped]

Keep this in mind also, this country will not be allowed to have another Civil War.  The minute it looks like this country will descend into anarchy, the world will step in.  And it will very likely step in on the side of the officially elected Government.  Why will they do this? Two reasons, the first being we have the largest nuclear arsenal.  And the UN will want that under control.  The second reason will be because we are the world's only super power left and China and Russia will see a grand opportunity to bring us down to their level of even lower.  Regardless of the reason, we will all lose, regardless of which "side " we are on.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I rather think the world would sit back and watch to see the outcome. Our government would probably invite other countries

to assist, but I doubt it would get anyone unless there was something given in return. like sovereignty. We have a government

consisting of cowards, right now. A lot in it are just plain idiot ideologues, but some aren't that stupid. yet. 

 

Almost every other country in the world has enough of its own problems. Just like ours.

[Dennis1209]

I think DaveTN is in the right track.  I'm not so sure I would agree with the statement that we are as divided as we've ever been since the Civil War.  The US has been involved in many internal conflicts since then.  The US Civil War was the disagreement over states' rights, but the driving issue was slavery, which was a major economic influence.  In other words, it was the threat to people's livelihoods through abolition of slavery that drove us to war with states' rights being the philosophical justification for protecting slavery.  I would suggest that if there were any issue that would drive us to civil unrest, it would likely be the gun rights issue.  It's kind of like the schoolyard bully picking a fight with the one kid in school that can fight back.  Most gun owners believe very strongly in their 2nd Amendment rights and I feel that there is a pretty big portion of that group who is grumbling very loudly over the threats to restrict gun ownership.  One other factor in play here is our shaky economic conditions.  Many of the people directly affected by the proposed gun restrictions are the same folks feeling the pinch in our current economy, and they blame the same politicians for screwing up the economy.  When you combine these two things, it could be the recipe for people to move from words to action.  I hope it never comes to that point, but when one looks at the history of civil unrest, it's the times of economic decline combined with a perceived loss of political efficacy that are usually present.

 

Hi Ya!

 

Perhaps it's a common misunderstanding of history but, here's my take and I'd like to disagree with you somewhat. The "emancipation proclamation" was an after thought to drum up northern support for the war. True, slavery was an issue  especially with states applying for statehood, however...In true dictator fashion President Lincoln established the first ever military draft and the suspension of "habeas corpus" for those who spoke out and became political prisoners for several years. Like today, those with financial means were able to buy their way out of the draft for $300.00.

 

IMHO. If it were not for northern aggression, textiles (cotton) and agriculture with an embargo of sending them up North, the civil war would have been "delayed".

 

Side note: One man owning another IMO is in itself a cause for war and rebellion. But was not the major reason for the war between the states or what initiated it.

 

Least that's what was drummed into my brain at school in the 50's - 60's?

[Ramjo]

Dennis, I don't think there is a possible rational counter-point to what you've said.

 

Our country is politically, financially, and now morally bankrupt. With those on the dark side in power and leading the downhill slide to catastrophic speeds with little or no brakes; I fear that it doesn't really look all to promising for the future. 

This is the empire strikes back for sure.

[Guest ThePunisher]

 

Could we as a nation be on the cusp of national self destruction and all out rebellion against our Washington masters?

Yes, I believe this current bunch of ... ..... in DC are leading our country over the destruction cliff without any concern whatsoever. It may be the inevitable plan of that "One World Order" many have been dreaming and living for. I don't believe we will be living the "American Dream" much longer as our founding fathers envisioned for the American people. They warned us to be vigilant to government tyranny, but our selfish indulgences succumbed to the wolves in sheepskin clothing. I'm still hopeful for our country because of freedom and liberty values that our country has stood for for over 235 years, but too many people have lost sight and meaning of our American principles and values. I don't know how it is going to look like in 10 or 20 years, but if our country continues the path it is on, our country that we've all known for its Constitutional values will certainly not last much longer.

[hipower]

This is the empire strikes back for sure.

 

That thought came to mind as i typed. Guess I'm just a fatalistic old sifi fanatic at heart.

[Dennis1209]

Keep this in mind also, this country will not be allowed to have another Civil War.  The minute it looks like this country will descend into anarchy, the world will step in.  And it will very likely step in on the side of the officially elected Government.  Why will they do this? Two reasons, the first being we have the largest nuclear arsenal.  And the UN will want that under control.  The second reason will be because we are the world's only super power left and China and Russia will see a grand opportunity to bring us down to their level of even lower.  Regardless of the reason, we will all lose, regardless of which "side " we are on.

 

You have an excellent point, and would like to expand on it.

 

How did we become the worlds leading manufacturer of everything in the world from WW II until the 1980's? Then become the worlds leading debtor and our manufacturing jobs left with that "great sucking sound"? Who's responsible and why?

 

How about a one world government and one world currency? Let me take off my Renolds Wrap tin foil hat a minute and explain.

 

What do you suppose such organizations and trade agreements are designed to do, such as NAFTA, GATT, the World Trade Organization (WTO), World Bank (WB), International Monetary Fund (IMF), the United Nations (UN), etc.? Do you think they are in the best interests of a sovereign nation? Did anyone happen to see American business, corporations and jobs flee overseas in mass shortly thereafter? Let's equal and remove the trade barriers and make everyone equal, equally poor. Let's up lift the third world nations at our expense and make us equal.

 

By design, national patriotism and sovereignty is being replaced by one world dependence and allegiance. On numerous occasions our American troops fighting on foreign soil have been subjected to wearing the U.N. patch on their left shoulder and commanded by a U.N. commander. Think I still have my Reynolds Wrap on?

 

How many national parks have you been to lately? A vast majority have the United Nations flag flying under our Stars & Stripes. Do a little research and see what that means to our sovereignty.

 

A little research would revel that during the Gulf War, we didn't even have the production capacity to produce our own munitions to fight it. We had to contract with Israel to manufacture 40% of our needs. How's that for a rich sovereign nation the whole world envies?

 

I'll bet you can count on ten fingers what is 100% made in America anymore.

 

Press #1 - to read this in Spanish

Press #2 - to read this in...

[Randall53]

[quote name="Moped" post="891082" timestamp="1358725994"]Keep this in mind also, this country will not be allowed to have another Civil War.  The minute it looks like this country will descend into anarchy, the world will step in.  And it will very likely step in on the side of the officially elected Government.  Why will they do this? Two reasons, the first being we have the largest nuclear arsenal.  And the UN will want that under control.  The second reason will be because we are the world's only super power left and China and Russia will see a grand opportunity to bring us down to their level of even lower.  Regardless of the reason, we will all lose, regardless of which "side " we are on.[/quote] Actually, Obama has plans to level our nuclear arsenals with those that are below us on the nuclear food chain. And not just a little. This was a year ago: "WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is weighing options for sharp new cuts to the U.S. nuclear force, including a reduction of up to 80 percent in the number of deployed weapons, The Associated Press has learned." There are many very good resources that you can find that reveals this and other plans he has in mind for us.

[Guest sreksuhn]

Keep this in mind also, this country will not be allowed to have another Civil War.  The minute it looks like this country will descend into anarchy, the world will step in.  And it will very likely step in on the side of the officially elected Government.  Why will they do this? Two reasons, the first being we have the largest nuclear arsenal.  And the UN will want that under control.  The second reason will be because we are the world's only super power left and China and Russia will see a grand opportunity to bring us down to their level of even lower.  Regardless of the reason, we will all lose, regardless of which "side " we are on.

OK I'm going to my happy place called Netflix

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Actually, Obama has plans to level our nuclear arsenals with those that are below us on the nuclear food chain. And not just a little. This was a year ago: "WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is weighing options for sharp new cuts to the U.S. nuclear force, including a reduction of up to 80 percent in the number of deployed weapons, The Associated Press has learned." There are many very good resources that you can find that reveals this and other plans he has in mind for us.

Actually, that has been in the works for decades. Something is always missing, though: trust.

[Randall53]

Actually, that has been in the works for decades. Something is always missing, though: trust.

I don't remember it, especially at this level. I hope you are right though.

I feel disarming Americans is national suicide. These are the most dangerous times I've seen in my life with America having so many enemies that want to destroy us. Enemies that don't fear death and would willingly strap on body bombs or drive car bombs into our cities if they get the chance, and will fly airliners into buildings full of Americans. They feel if they die fighting us they will be greatly rewarded by their god. This goes way beyond the kamakaze pilots of Japan due to their knowledge of terrorism, coming here with nothing and using our freedoms against us to obtain information and tools of destruction. Al qaida already has thousands of videos of our dams, our subways our cities.....the list goes on. We have stopped many attempts at terrorism on our own soil, but it's just a matter of time until they're successful with another attack.

Another thought. Radical Islam will never go away. World domination is their goal and they will not settle for less. their book tells them they must convert or eliminate the infidel. They are dong it for their god. They are far more dangerous than the nazis were or Japan. They are quietly spreading and recruiting on every continent. They are growing their ranks daily. They blend in with civilians unless holding an AK. I believe very hard times are coming. Ok. I've rambled enough. Where did I put that foil? I need a new hat! Edited January 21, 2013 by Randall53