Volkswagon and the Parking Lot Bill

[R_Bert]

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/jan/20/tenn-pols-hope-gun-bill-wont-hurt-vw-chances/

 

 

[Oh Shoot]

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/jan/20/tenn-pols-hope-gun-bill-wont-hurt-vw-chances/

 

"Haslam ... wants to find a better balance between the competing claims of gun and property rights."

 

Translation: sure, pass the law, but companies can opt out.

 

- OS

[QuietDan]

A foreign car company is trying to blackmail Tennessee State government to accede to their wishes?

 

A foreign car company is holding potential jobs as ransom?

 

Really? Am I looking at this correctly?

 

I think I'm offended.

[mikegideon]

"Haslam ... wants to find a better balance between the competing claims of gun and property rights."

 

Translation: sure, pass the law, but companies can opt out.

 

- OS

 

The law is only about the ones that have opted out already. Save the paper.

[Patton]

Does Volkswagon realize a large majority of guns are in their parking lots as it is? Do they realize a lot of states you can keep a firearm in a car without a permit?
This is a company that asked a uniformed police officer why he was on the property if he wasn't called.

[Chucktshoes]

This is a company that asked a uniformed police officer why he was on the property if he wasn't called.

That's a reasonable question in my opinion.

[Jonnin]

A foreign car company is trying to blackmail Tennessee State government to accede to their wishes?

 

A foreign car company is holding potential jobs as ransom?

 

Really? Am I looking at this correctly?

 

I think I'm offended.

Yes,  VW has used the threat of leaving / shutting down at few times alerady.   They are not potential jobs, really --- people already work there.  

 

It has the local government here in a bind --- they do NOT want to lose VW or even call the bluff, they will fold every time and probably continue to do so until the economy is stable again....

[QuietDan]

Yes,  VW has used the threat of leaving / shutting down at few times alerady.   They are not potential jobs, really --- people already work there.  

 

It has the local government here in a bind --- they do NOT want to lose VW or even call the bluff, they will fold every time and probably continue to do so until the economy is stable again....

 

That's pretty reprehensible. The only leg I think they could really stand on would be if the parking lot was inside the foreign trade zone. Otherwise, if they have to do any searches, they can search at the factory door.

[Worriedman]

And from that bastion of 2nd Amendment support Gerald McCormick:
 

McCormick said he expects the final version of this year's bill to include elements that will go against the wishes of both the gun and business lobbies.

 

"If it makes everybody unhappy, it may make for some pretty decent legislation," he said

 

Now there is leadership for you!

 

[strickj]

A foreign car company is trying to blackmail Tennessee State government to accede to their wishes?

 

A foreign car company is holding potential jobs as ransom?

 

Really? Am I looking at this correctly?

 

I think I'm offended.

 

The cars and car parts are being built by 5,000 Chattanoogans. This new SUV could potently double that number.

 

Whatever they want, they will get.... and for good reason. If you don't like a "foreign car maker" or their policies, you don't have to work there.

[Guest Gwith40]

I decided that I didn't care to much for Volkwagen before the plant even started. Why? Because a good friend of mine, who I know to be a very hard worker was rejected for a position there. To make a long story short, it was a clear case of age discrimination. At the beginning of the process, Volkswagen tried to act like they were gods own creation. Everyone was tested on processes. Even though my friend did just as well as the younger attendees, they were hired and he was not. 

My understanding from people that work there is that there is quite a bit of turnover. The schedule includes swing shifts. The job does not pay that well, with one employment agency supplying some of the labor at about 12/hr. Not terrible for Chattanooga, but not great either.

 

I was told by a very credible source in the business community that Volkswagen had initially planned to pay quite a bit more per hour. However, several local companies, via the Chamber of Commerce complained until that wage was lowered. The reason? Because they were afraid they would lose employees.

 

I just read that Volkswagen hopes to turn a profit this year. It seems that one of the reasons they have seen a sales increase, is because they have dropped the price on the cars. Remember, revenue and profit are two different things. The goal of outselling Toyota is lunacy.

 

As far as the issue of police on the property, that is not as uncommon as you might think. There are other companies in Chattanooga that have such policies. Back when I worked in security, I was told on several occasions not to allow police on the property of certain companies, unless cleared by management. I just let that go in one ear and out the other. I certainly wasn't going to get killed over something that stupid.

[leroy]

Volkwagen is doin exactly what any big operation with lots of clout tends to do.  They are gonna find out what they can get and how far their influence stretches.   I doubt that they will shut down a billion dollar plant that's up and runnin to make a point about guns in the parking lot.  These folks are business people; not anti-gun zealots.  They, unlike lots of american business people understand manufacturing and capitalism.

 

I wouldnt worry too much about whether volkswagen is gonna leave chattanooga.  My prediction is that they aint; and that they will simply expand as they have the dollars.  The next time ya get worried about that; drive down I75 south and take a look at the roadway leading to "Volkswagen Drive" .   It's the largest intersection on the road other than the interstate junctions.   Tennessee is a great, business friendly place with a skilled (....especially in chattanooga...) workforce that actually wants to work.  That's why they came here in the first place. 

 

I say: "....Dont worry about the volkswagen bluster; that exactly what it is."... They are tryin to see how much they can get from the polititians.  More than that; dont discount that the enemies of this "parking lot" proposal are usin this as fodder to do exactly what it tends to do; that is, to scare the locals and the political class into submission.

 

leroy

[battleop]

I know several people who worked at the VW plant and they all say that the Germans are complete jerks.  They say that most of them have a "I am better than you lowly American" attitude.

[Guest PapaB]

So, a foreign owned company wants a say in how we handle the rights outlined in our Constitution?

 

Kiss my ahh, you know.

[1gewehr]

Corporations don't vote.  Sure, they can give lots of money to a politician.  But that does not equal votes.  Just ask Debra Maggert about that.  what you have to do is remind your politicians that not only do YOU vote, but that some do lots of your friends who agree with you.  Your calls to your congressman count for more than a check from a foreign corporation.  And that check can even be a liability when you show that your congressman accepts checks from a foreign company!

 

Visits, calls, letters, emails are what matter.  As one politician told me, "Money is the sincerest form of flattery".  But give your money as a result of a correct vote, not before.

[leroy]

I know several people who worked at the VW plant and they all say that the Germans are complete jerks.  They say that most of them have a "I am better than you lowly American" attitude.

 

This is not an uncommon occurence.  I've experienced it myself in the 'long ago".  The best way to handle them is to be polite but dismissive.  Tell 'em what ya will and wont do, and where they can go if they dont like it.

 

These europeans aint used to the freedom here nor the culture.  Dont worry; they will warm up to it.  The great thing about the usa is that folks tend to like it here; especially down south.  They dont go back home if they dont have to.  Even the dammed yankees wont go home unless they have to.   The germans will come around eventually.  I predict that we'll win 'em over pretty quickly.  Who would want to go back to germany (...or europe...) to 50% plus taxes and a bunch of dammed weinies tellin you ever move to make.  Nobody (...even the germans...) likes that.

 

leroy

[Jonnin]

Volkwagen is doin exactly what any big operation with lots of clout tends to do.  They are gonna find out what they can get and how far their influence stretches.   I doubt that they will shut down a billion dollar plant that's up and runnin to make a point about guns in the parking lot.  These folks are business people; not anti-gun zealots.  They, unlike lots of american business people understand manufacturing and capitalism.

 

I wouldnt worry too much about whether volkswagen is gonna leave chattanooga.  My prediction is that they aint; and that they will simply expand as they have the dollars.  The next time ya get worried about that; drive down I75 south and take a look at the roadway leading to "Volkswagen Drive" .   It's the largest intersection on the road other than the interstate junctions.   Tennessee is a great, business friendly place with a skilled (....especially in chattanooga...) workforce that actually wants to work.  That's why they came here in the first place. 

 

I say: "....Dont worry about the volkswagen bluster; that exactly what it is."... They are tryin to see how much they can get from the polititians.  More than that; dont discount that the enemies of this "parking lot" proposal are usin this as fodder to do exactly what it tends to do; that is, to scare the locals and the political class into submission.

 

leroy

I agree with this 100% --- that they will not move out or refuse to grow the plant over the issue --- but they do have considerable pressure on the govt right now, and at the moment, the govt is spineless enough to let them push so.....  

 

BTW I have met a few of the germans at the shooting range.  They LOVE being able to own and fire a weapon for recreation and are impressed with the freedom to do so.   Just like any group of people, they come down to individuals and the few I have talked to were friendly and glad to experience america.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Jonnin

[Guest Gwith40]

I have a future relative working at the Volkswagen plant here. In the little time we have had to talk about it, he seems to like the job, although burnout would clearly be an issue. I guess even with all the bad I pointed out, it is still a good thing to bring jobs to the area. The overriding question would be: Was it worth it? That one would take a boatload of analysis and a lot to time to look back. The State of Tn and Hamilton County basically gave the store away to get the plant. One of the bad things is that smaller operations go begging for help and get none. Small business, as defined by the federal government can have a few hundred employees. It is actually small business that employs most Americans.

 

By the way, for comparison, if you are employed full-time with Volkswagen as a line assembler, you will get about 14-14.50 an hour. You will earn 16 an hour to start at Hyundai in Alabama.

[Guest stovepipe]

Wow, kinda ironic knowing VW's early history...  I wonder if they'll reintroduce the Kübelwagen?

[Patton]

Even more ironic that Volkswagon chose a old WWII ammunitions plant for their operation.

[enfield]

I believe that Volkswagen will make their choice of manufacturing location based on money, as every company should, but I don't like them trying to influence legislation in Tennessee.

 

If they think that their money should buy them votes in Nashville, then they should build in Mexico - we're not for sale.

[JayC]

I know I'm tilting at more windmills, but the NRA and TFA are on the wrong side in this legislation.  Private businesses should be allowed to control their property, and you have the freedom to choose not to do business with them.

 

Just because somebody is too lazy or unwilling to make a tough choice to prioritize their safety over their current job is not a reason to take more rights away from property owners.

 

We should be focusing on removing gun free zones from government buildings and land because we don't have a choice not to do business with the government.  So government buildings  parks, and other land should all be removed from 39-17-1359.

 

I know it's an unpopular opinion here but the fact remains YOU make the choice to do business with somebody who doesn't have your best interests at heart, your failure to properly prioritize your safety and beliefs is not everybody else's problem.

[Guest PapaB]

I know I'm tilting at more windmills, but the NRA and TFA are on the wrong side in this legislation.  Private businesses should be allowed to control their property, and you have the freedom to choose not to do business with them.

 

Just because somebody is too lazy or unwilling to make a tough choice to prioritize their safety over their current job is not a reason to take more rights away from property owners.

 

We should be focusing on removing gun free zones from government buildings and land because we don't have a choice not to do business with the government.  So government buildings  parks, and other land should all be removed from 39-17-1359.

 

I know it's an unpopular opinion here but the fact remains YOU make the choice to do business with somebody who doesn't have your best interests at heart, your failure to properly prioritize your safety and beliefs is not everybody else's problem.

 

I think you're missing something here. This isn't actually about private businesses controlling their property. It's about balancing the rights of 2 property owners, the land owner and the vehicle owner. Also note that, just as a person can choose not to work for a company that doesn't allow legal guns in vehicles, a company can choose to not provide parking for employees if they don't want those guns on their property.

 

The main reason I disagree with your stance is that property rights are granted by the government. 2nd Amendment rights are acknowleged by the government but granted by God. I always let what God gives us trump what the government allows.

[JayC]

No I'm not missing anything here, I as a business owner invite you onto my property under certain terms and conditions, you're free to dislike my terms and conditions and stay off my property...  that includes the terms and conditions of where, how, and what you park in my parking lot.  If you violate those terms and conditions I'm free to ask you to leave and not return.  If you refuse to leave or return after being asked to leave, I can have you charged with the crime of trespass.

 

First, property rights aren't granted by the government anymore than your 2nd amendment rights are granted by the government...  Life, Liberty, and Property are inalienable rights granted by our creator, and only protected by the constitution.  So you right to self defense (life), is the same as your right to property.

 

Second, we don't need to restrict rights where equals are free to contract between each other...  This is a problem of convenience not a problem of your rights being infringed.  You have other less drastic options open to you as a permit holder and 2nd amendment supporter...  your lack of desire to select those options should not be a cause for me to loose my property rights (more than they've already been eroded today).

 

I find companies asking me to wear a tie offensive...  I just hate ties :)  So I should get the legislature to prohibit companies from firing employees that don't follow their dress code just because I don't like to wear a tie everyday?  Frankly, this is the level of silliness built into the current parking lot bill.  

 

You know how I resolved by dislike for wearing ties?  I don't work for a company that requires I wear a tie everyday :)  Just like I don't work for a company that requires that I travel to and from work (or at work in my case) as an unarmed sheep.  Could I make more money if I'd go to work someplace that required I wear a tie everyday?  Yes.  Just as I could make more money working someplace that required that I be unarmed everyday...  but I prioritize my security (and hatred for ties) over my paycheck amount, and take the effort to live below my means.

 

Put on your bigboy pants, start looking for a job at a pro-gun company (there are a lot of them out there), and make the move away from a company that doesn't have your best interests at heart...  Sure you might be able to shoot a little less often, or have to drive your car for a few more years...  but it's a great freedom to wake up every morning and know you set your own destiny (except for the huge hand of big brother breathing down your neck constantly).

 

And it's that huge hand of big brother (government) that we should be working against not businesses and their private property rights.

 

I think you're missing something here. This isn't actually about private businesses controlling their property. It's about balancing the rights of 2 property owners, the land owner and the vehicle owner. Also note that, just as a person can choose not to work for a company that doesn't allow legal guns in vehicles, a company can choose to not provide parking for employees if they don't want those guns on their property.

 

The main reason I disagree with your stance is that property rights are granted by the government. 2nd Amendment rights are acknowleged by the government but granted by God. I always let what God gives us trump what the government allows.

 

 

[Worriedman]

 

I find companies asking me to wear a tie offensive...  I just hate ties

Nothing in the Constitution of the Union or the State guaranteeing you the right to not wear a tie. There is no specific Article which references a tie, but Article 1 Section 26 does specifically reference arms, and my Right to carry them for my defense. Our Constitution says that ONLY the legislature has the power to regulate where arms are worn, individuals do not have that power.