Steps to get a FFL

[Guest jth_3s]

Just wondering if anyone could help me out. I do a little trading from my personal collection but I want to keep it legal. I didnt realize until a few weeks ago that it could cause me some serious problems. Can anyone tell me the steps it takes to get your FFL?

[Guest bkelm18]

Just wondering if anyone could help me out. I do a little trading from my personal collection but I want to keep it legal. I didnt realize until a few weeks ago that it could cause me some serious problems. Can anyone tell me the steps it takes to get your FFL?

How exactly is a little trading from your personal collection illegal? Do you do it for profit? If no, then you don't need an FFL. You don't need an FFL unless you are doing this for profit. Even then, unless you plan on opening up a shop, an 01FFL is probably going to be more trouble than its worth for you, unless thats what you are planning on doing.

[Guest jth_3s]

I just want to keep it legal. The law is kind of gray so I want to make sure I dont have anything to worry about. ATF paid a visit to my friends house and warned him he was trading to much.

Edited June 30, 2008 by jth_3s

[Guest bkelm18]

Recently ATF paid a visit to the sherrif and searched my friends house and they had a list of names of people in my county they wanted the local sheriff to talk to. I didnt think I was doing anything wrong but they said if we didnt stop we would be in trouble. I dont know when a gun legally becomes part of your personal collection it seems like enforcement of the law is just up to their discretion. I figured if it cost me a grand or two it would be worth it.

Well obviously there is a bit more to this than some simple buying and selling. I assume you are doing this for profit?

[Guest jth_3s]

No I was just trading my personal collection. But I was doing it a little to much. I didnt profit from it. If I got my FFL and did what I was doing I wouldnt be making any money it would be solely for a hobby.

[Guest bkelm18]

No I was just trading my personal collection. But I was doing it a little to much. I didnt profit from it. If I got my FFL and did what I was doing I wouldnt be making any money it would be solely for a hobby.

Define "too much". The likelyhood of the ATF issuing you an FFL just because you want to do it as a hobby is not very likely. In some states, they wont even issue you an FFL unless you have a storefront. I'm pretty sure TN doesn't require that but getting an FFL is a bit more intensive than just filling out some paperwork and paying the fee.

[Guest jth_3s]

Do they have anything for people who want to try a gun out and get rid of it at the next gun show?

[Guest bkelm18]

Do they have anything for people who want to try a gun out and get rid of it at the next gun show?

If you legally own the gun, its none of the ATF's business what you do with it as long as you don't sell it to someone who can't own a firearm or start selling them for a profit.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Follow this link, for the Form 7 paperwork, that you will have to submit to the BATF (in order to apply for your FFL):

http://www.atf.gov/forms/5300instructions.htm#5310

There are also several good packages out there on the internet that take all the guess work out of the process, and lead you step-by-step through the entire process. Granted, most of the info is out there for free if you look... but, if you're willing to pony up the $20-50, these are pretty much all inclusive:

http://www.fflkit.com/

Good luck either way. Obtaining a FFL and opening a range is something I've started looking into, since separating from the military, as well. Especially since the major dealer here in town closed shop and went in a different direction.

EDIT: Also be aware of city zoning (can be worked around, but takes time and city council), requirements on site to hold said license, etc... there's a lot more to it, than just submitting paperwork and paying the fee.

Edited June 30, 2008 by Verbal Kint

[Guest jth_3s]

Well they scared the Sh*t out of me so unless I get an FFL Ill only go through one. Theyre sending me a packet in the mail Ill see how big a deal it is in a few days.

[Guest bkelm18]

Well good luck either way. I've noticed in a few instances, the ATF interprets the law however they please since you really can't tell the ATF otherwise.

[Guest jth_3s]

However they interpret it is what Ill go with. Its better than the alternative

[skipsfirearms]

It is nothing but a real pain in the butt. Once you have your application just follow the directions to the "T". You will fill out 3 applications, if I remember correctly. You will have to have pictures of yourself to attach to the app in the appropriate place, 4 or 5 fingerprint cards that must be taken and signed by law enforcement etc.....

The ATF will allow you to have an FFL from your home. Bear in mind that your county may not. The ATF will check with your zoning commissioner to see if they have a problem with it. You may also have to pay for a local background check from your county sherriff. When I first opened up the county sheriff looked at my app and asked me what I wanted him to do with it? When I moved my shop to another county it was a different story.

The ATF will come and do an interview with you and go over the different laws and things. No big deal just a few hours of listening to them talk.

The ATF will not allow you to have an FFL if you are just a collector, or just want to sell some guns at gun shows. But some of this is spelled out in the application.

All in all the biggest pain is all the paperwork you have to keep track of after you get the FFL.

All in all the process is just sometimes long and boring. No big deal and I don't know why people pay $50 for a package to help them fill out the application. With your application comes all the instructions you need.

If you need any help feel free to contact me. skip@skipsfirearms.com

And good luck......

[Guest jth_3s]

Thanks for the help I might email you when I get that package.

[The Rabbi]

From the sound of it not only do you not need an FFL, you likely won't get one.

The ffl is for the purpose of engaging in buying and selling guns to make a profit. If that isn't your intent, you can't have one.

Further, they will only grant one to premises that meet all local zoning ordnances. So if your house is not zoned commercial, they won't give you one.

Since ATF nowhere defines a given number of transactions that might constitute "dealing" it is hard to see how they can prosecute. The guys who set up tables at every gun show and buy and sell are clearly, in my mind, dealers who ought to have a license (but couldn't get it because they wont give ffls to people who sell exclusively at shows).

I know their current bug is unlicensed dealers (their past bug was straw purchases). But since there is no legal definition I am aware of, they can't prosecute.

[Guest jth_3s]

Thats what I thought but a local gunshop got mad about www.golsn.com and called the ATF about it. Regardless of wether I would get convicted or not I dont want to risk ending up in Federal Court when I could get started for less than a grand. We have a building on commercial property but there is another business in it can you run the 2 businesses out of 1 building

[Guest jth_3s]

The ATF agents said we needed FFLs

[Guest bkelm18]

The ATF agents said we needed FFLs

Well with all due respect to ATF agents, but they are just like cops, some know their job well, some don't but like to think they do.

[The Rabbi]

Well with all due respect to ATF agents, but they are just like cops, some know their job well, some don't but like to think they do.

If you are not engaging in the buying and selling of guns for profit you do not need an ffl. In fact you cannot get an ffl because that's a requirement for the license.

And yes, you can operate multiple businesses on the premises. Bellshire hardware does just that.

[Guest sling]

Several people have commented *rabbi especially* how he doesnt need an FFL. Seriously, listen to rabbi. He operates a small little shop and something tells me that he's gone through this process.

You dont need an FFL nor will you be granted one for what you're doing.

Hope you dont learn the hard way.

[Guest nraforlife]

In some areas you could open a brothel faster than a gun shop

[The Rabbi]

Several people have commented *rabbi especially* how he doesnt need an FFL. Seriously, listen to rabbi. He operates a small little shop and something tells me that he's gone through this process.

You dont need an FFL nor will you be granted one for what you're doing.

Hope you dont learn the hard way.

He'll submit his application and it will get turned down because he doesn't meet the requirement to buy and sell for profit.

The only good is that he can show the turn down letter to idiotic ATF agents who insist he needs an ffl.

[TGO David]

None of the people who are giving you advice here (good or bad) is going to step up and go to prison for you or pay a fine for you if they're wrong and the Government was right.

I think I'd take heed to what a Federal Agent told me and give more weight to that than I would what a bunch of faceless strangers on the Internet told me. If they felt you were doing something that might get you in trouble, then they are already watching you.

Only you know the specifics of this situation. Take that, add it to what you learn when you receive your FFL information packet, then let your gut instinct be your guide. In the meantime, I'd try talking to a competent lawyer also and solicit their professional opinion.

Good luck.

[Guest jth_3s]

Yea I have to agree with you on this one. No sense in pissing off people who can send you to the pen. Im gonna try to get my FFLs becasue they told me I needed them.

[Guest jwp]

There is a magic number of guns you can sell in a year before the BATFE considers you a dealer and wants their application and fee.

That number is low. That number is around 10.

If I were you I would either stop doing what you are doing or pony up the $200, get an FFL and play by the rules.