starting over...replacing guns

[Guest brandonnash]

Hello all, new to the forum. Been reading a few days and like what I see.

So I need to start over with guns. Money was tight over the past couple years so at times that were real tough I unfortunately had to sell my guns one by one. Now I am slowly but seemingly surely getting things paid off and when funds become available I would like to replace some of the guns I have lost. They don't necessarily have to be exact clones, in fact I want to try and obtain some stuff that would better fit my needs now. I will still be on a budget so I can't go expensive on any of them. Supporting a family of 5 by myself on a government salary doesn't always cut it.

I want to start with something that is an all around gun. Something that can be used for home defense, hunting, and target shooting from the start. I want a more all around gun just because I don't want something very specialized in case I have further financial troubles and can't get any further. So for that reason I am looking at a shotgun. I figure with a shotgun its good for all the things I listed. I can hunt small game and also throw in a slug for deer if needs be. The one I am looking at now is the maverick 88 security model 8 shot. I like it for home defense because its a short barrel at 20" and barrels can be changed for most of the Mossberg 500 barrels. I can stick a plug in the tube to limit to 3 shells to keep it legal for hunting. The shorter barrel isn't ideal for hunting, I get that, but for my all around gun it will have to do. I will probably add a sling and light to it.

My second gun I would like to go for a pistol. I need something to carry and one of the reasons I haven't got a pistol (and a carry permit) is because I work in a secure facility that doesn't low guns on property. I am hoping the law will get passed for leaving weapons in work parking lots. Not worried about a break in to my car being the place I work is very secured. The gun I have been looking at for a while is the kel tech pmr-30. I like the high capacity and its very light weight and something that if they ever decide to make it more readily available it should fit my budget. With the possible weapons ban I doubt these will be made very much longer, but I am hopeful. I understand that this is "only" a .22 magnum but from the ballistics I have looked up they are not too far off from .380. I am up to other suggestions on these though. Another option is one of the hipoint pistols. I know these are not highly regarded guns but for the type of budget i will be on ever penny saved helps. Not against a reissue police glock since they seem to be everywhere.

Next would be my deer rifle. I had a Remington 700 in 7mm rem mag with a 3-9x40 scope. That gun I loved. Long shots could be had with that. I liked the 7mm because it seemed I could potentially hunt anything in north america with it up to brown bear, elk, and moose. The long range shooting is something I would like to get into again even if its just targets. I am pretty open for opinions on rifles and calibers. I doubt I will be doing any moose hunting anytime soon and if I do I will certainly have enough money for a better rifle. Price is concern here as well since it seems to get to 1 moa can cost a ton of money and there are huge ranges in the price of rifles. I have been looking at some and the Mossberg night train II looks pretty good to me. The cost seems to be all over the board so I am not sure what they usually go for. Comes with scope, bipod, and muzzle break. .308 so the ammo should be readily available. Even though I liked shooting the 7mm the ammo for it got way too expensive.

Also being that I am always looking a a potential end of the world/zombie apocalypse I need a end of world gun too. The mosin nagant seems to fit that bill. I pick up one or two of those with a few cases of ammo and I could push through most situations I believe. The price is definitely right.

I also need to replace a .22 rifle I had. It was my first non pellet gun and would like to pass it along to my son when he gets old enough to own one.

I am open to all suggestions on these guns. If you know of something better I will look at it. Because of my low cash flow I will probably be buying these over the next couple years.

thanks for reading and sorry for the long post. Also any donations would not be turned away!!! :)


Brandon

[JoeJ615]

the Maverick 88 is a good idea for a home defense shotgun on a budget it's a very well made pump gun for the low price point (have one sitting by my bedside as i type), the PMR 30 at least right now is next to impossible to find and most people have alot of FTF issues out of them, from my understanding there is a certain way to load the mags and kind tap em against a hard surface every few rounds you load to improve the reliability but that seems gimicky to me, never had a high point but from what i gather from friends who own them and from reviews online they are surprisingly reliable for a cheapo gun ... just blocky big and ugly, but who cares if it saves your life im sure it'll be beautiful to YOU lol ... im a HUGE advocate that every shooter should own at least one .22 rifle and pistol just because they are fun and make GREAT training tools ... all the essentials you can get down on the cheap and fire thousands of rounds without going broke .. and those same skills will translate to your more expensive to shoot centerfire guns ... just my 2 cents :)

[Jonnin]

the mosin *is* a deer rifle.  Beat up already, if you get a half decent one the accuracy is sufficient and the caliber more than potent enough.  Its a little heavy, but why buy 2 that are the same thing (large caliber bolt action) when you have a tight budget??  You can get a 700 later --- those are fine rifles --- but I would make do until the money is there for the gun you want.   Just an assumption here but looking at it with logic, the next time you hunt a moose with a 7mm cannon you will pay more than a 700 is worth in air fare & meat shipping etc.... so you don't *need* that thing in TN right now.

 

I support the kel tec as a decent pistol however they are a little unstable.  Some ammo jams them up, and it may be quirky --- it is a significan engineering challenge to deal with such a long, skiny case in the 22 mag.   I am totally sure I would recommend it for defense purposes, and if you want to go there, be very sure you can get the gun to function reliably!!   22 mag costs same as 9mm roughly, so a good full sized 9mm would be a better choice if you get a reliable gun, such as a ruger P series or the like?  I like kel tec, its not that, its just a difficult gun to produce (that is why there are only a couple of 22 mag semi autos out there).

 

what sort of .22 do you seek?  A hand me down heirloom, I would get a solid target bolt gun, personally?

[Guest brandonnash]

Thanks for the reply. I haven't read much about the pmr-30 and any quirks it has. I just knew from looking at the ads that I liked it but immediately got turned off a bit when it seemed kel tech made about 8 of them for their first run and seemingly haven't made any or many more. Seems like the kel tech way of doing things. I also like their ksg but its out of my price range. Also not readily available.

The hipoint I will look at some more since they are very cheap. I am a bigger guy so I don't mind the added weight.

[Jonnin]

Thanks for the reply. I haven't read much about the pmr-30 and any quirks it has. I just knew from looking at the ads that I liked it but immediately got turned off a bit when it seemed kel tech made about 8 of them for their first run and seemingly haven't made any or many more. Seems like the kel tech way of doing things. I also like their ksg but its out of my price range. Also not readily available.

The hipoint I will look at some more since they are very cheap. I am a bigger guy so I don't mind the added weight.

 

Hipoints have a solid rep as a reliable inexpensive weapon.   The trigger cleans up nicely too.  Not a bad choice at all.

[Guest brandonnash]

Are their any local shops that carry that Maverick 8 shot? I saw on academy's web page that they have the 6 shot in "limited stores". It was $189 I believe.

[Guest brandonnash]

the mosin *is* a deer rifle. Beat up already, if you get a half decent one the accuracy is sufficient and the caliber more than potent enough. Its a little heavy, but why buy 2 that are the same thing (large caliber bolt action) when you have a tight budget?? You can get a 700 later --- those are fine rifles --- but I would make do until the money is there for the gun you want. Just an assumption here but looking at it with logic, the next time you hunt a moose with a 7mm cannon you will pay more than a 700 is worth in air fare & meat shipping etc.... so you don't *need* that thing in TN right now.

I support the kel tec as a decent pistol however they are a little unstable. Some ammo jams them up, and it may be quirky --- it is a significan engineering challenge to deal with such a long, skiny case in the 22 mag. I am totally sure I would recommend it for defense purposes, and if you want to go there, be very sure you can get the gun to function reliably!! 22 mag costs same as 9mm roughly, so a good full sized 9mm would be a better choice if you get a reliable gun, such as a ruger P series or the like? I like kel tec, its not that, its just a difficult gun to produce (that is why there are only a couple of 22 mag semi autos out there).

what sort of .22 do you seek? A hand me down heirloom, I would get a solid target bolt gun, personally?

I had an old sears model 25 tube load semi auto from the late 50's. It was a fun gun to shoot. For the price difference I would rather have a semi auto again. I have shot the bolt action .22s and they just loose that fun factor for me. Barely a step up from a pellet gun IMHO. I like that the ruger 10/22 is so customizable. Price just seems steep on the from end for what everyone else seems to sell their .22 semis for.

[Guest brandonnash]

Also with the mosin, are their any significant advantages of the 91/30 over the type 53? The 91 has a 28" barrel and the 53 has a 20 right?

[VERO1]

A lot of us have had to make the decision to sell "stuff" to help the family.  I kind of think that is what is being a grownup is all about.  I sold a bunch over the years to cover family expenses.  I would do it again today if necessary.  Family and kids outrank posessions by a crap load!

[Jonnin]

I had an old sears model 25 tube load semi auto from the late 50's. It was a fun gun to shoot. For the price difference I would rather have a semi auto again. I have shot the bolt action .22s and they just loose that fun factor for me. Barely a step up from a pellet gun IMHO. I like that the ruger 10/22 is so customizable. Price just seems steep on the from end for what everyone else seems to sell their .22 semis for.

 

you can find the tube feds used at gun shows pretty easily.  They are less popular than the mag fed 10-22.  I have a browning BAR-22 tube fed that is just amazing, though that probably commands a bit of a price now (?).  I dunno, I would never sell that one.  Should not be too hard to find something in that lineup. 

 

10-22 isnt too hard to find, but bigger mags and ammo could be a problem.   Its an excellent gun, but it sure does not scream "heirloom".  

[cgun86]

A Marlin 795 would be a great .22 choice. They can still be had for under $200. +1 for Ruger P series. You really can't go wrong with a Ruger P95 for an all around carry/home defense firearm. It has been the most reliable firearm i've ever owned.

[Guest brandonnash]

[quote name="Jonnin" post="891125" timestamp="1358728804"]you can find the tube feds used at gun shows pretty easily.  They are less popular than the mag fed 10-22.  I have a browning BAR-22 tube fed that is just amazing, though that probably commands a bit of a price now (?).  I dunno, I would never sell that one.  Should not be too hard to find something in that lineup.    10-22 isnt too hard to find, but bigger mags and ammo could be a problem.   Its an excellent gun, but it sure does not scream "heirloom".  [/quote] I can have the mosin for the heirloom. Btw, has anyone noticed they are pretty few and far between now? Seems like they are expensive at the places that still have them. The gun shows I have been to in the past year prices have not been grand. Years back deals were everywhere but now the sellers at the shows want retail price for used guns. The last one I was at a guy had a couple mosins with questionable barrels and sticky triggers for $179 each. 5 years ago they could be had for well under $100.

[Jonnin]

the imports have slowed down some, so supply is shrinking.  You are either buying from the uncommon import that is still tricking in or from somone who bought them, stored them, and is now looking to profit.

 

Gun shows have become a haven for new shooters who have heard you can get a good deal at one.   Been that way for a decade now ... the dealers are ripping off people that do not know what the price should be.  Not all of the dealers, you still find deals, but the deals are much fewer and far between.  If/when they ban private sales, the shows will just be pawn shop vendors with FFLs ripping people off, and the shows will die soon after that, IMHO.  The good thing about the pawn shop guys is they sometimes fail to realize what something is :)

Edited January 21, 2013 by Jonnin

[china coaster]

    Rock Island has a 22TCM/9x19mm combo pistol that Jeff Quinn reviewed. Looks interesting. I would like to see one. It is a 1911 style.

[jgradyc]

Your shotgun choice seems fine. The Kel Tec PMR 30 is a toy. By that, I mean everyone reports that they are fun to shoot, but not reliable or enough firepower for EDC. They're also way expensive. All the guns mentioned here would be better choices.  This is not a knock on Kel Tec. I've owned 5 Kel Tecs and liked them all, but it just doesn't seem to fit your needs. A KelTec P11 with the aftermarket aluminum trigger would be another inexpensive gun, but I'm guessing that the size would be a problem for you since everything listed here are full size guns. They also have problems with jams due to what's called limp wristing... a common problem with the very small semi autos.

 

If you get a Hi Point, make sure the trigger pull is okay.  The knock on the Mosy Nagant is that they aren't accurate. Adding a scope is not a simple process and would cost more than the rifle. Everyone should have a 22 rifle.

[Guest Papabear]

A good .22 rifle thats overlooked alot is the Marlin model 60. I bought one used many years ago and could not even guess how many rounds have been through it and it still runs like a top. New they run int the 150-160 range and used are normally a bargin I have seen then less than 100 bucks. Henry lever actions are also nice guns for the money new they can be had less than 200 new. Your hard pressed to wear out a well built .22 rifle. I would say your shotgun pick is not bad. Well built gun at an attractive price. For a handgun I would not overlook used trade in guns. Sometimes you can get a very nice gun that has been shot very little but has alot of finish wear for a excellent price.

 

Keep in mind that with the way people are buying AR's and AK's at the moment the used gun selection in most stores is running over with less tatical options. And there are some excellent deals to be had on hunting and less sexy types of guns. Nice lever actions and bolt actions have been traded in so people can afford those black guns.

[Guest brandonnash]

Thanks for all the input guys. That marlin I have looked at. Price is decent on that too. I just wonder if it would be more beneficial to pay the extra for a 10/22. I like that they make so many accessories for it and from what I have seen the marlin has hardly any at all.

[monkeylizard]

Also with the mosin, are their any significant advantages of the 91/30 over the type 53? The 91 has a 28" barrel and the 53 has a 20 right?

 

That's pretty much it. The 53 is the carbine version so it's shorter and lighter, but costs more. The 1891/30 is a looooong rifle. There are aftermarket stocks if you want to sporterize it. That cuts down on the weight and allows optics etc. to be put on one easily. It's sacrilege to some folks around here to do that. If you find a great deal on one with good metal and terrible wood, it's not the worst way to give the old girl a new life.

 

.308 so the ammo should be readily available.

 

You would think so, but right now, that's just not the case with much of anything. SGAmmo, AIM, SportsmansGuide...all <<SOLD OUT>>. It will come back though.

 

 

Here's a slightly older thread from GnL, a forum sponsor. It will give you an idea of some of the pricing avaialble for a few things on your list. They were clearing out an overstock of prior-model bolts and pumps. Notice they had a Marlin in .243 for $200, a Savage in 30-06 for $150, and several pump 12 ga. under $300. Pretty excellent prices since as you said, you're seeing Mosins for that much. Metalhead last updfated that thread back in October, before the fire at the Greenbrier store and before the current panic wave. They may still have some of the stuff that Metal hasn't updated with a strikethrough line. You won't know without giving them a call. The last time I was at the Hendersonville store about the only thing they had plenty of were bolt rifles and pump and O/U shotties.

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/52777-its-clearance-time-at-gl-take-a-look-updated-10-16/

[Guest Papabear]

Thanks for all the input guys. That marlin I have looked at. Price is decent on that too. I just wonder if it would be more beneficial to pay the extra for a 10/22. I like that they make so many accessories for it and from what I have seen the marlin has hardly any at all.

Depends on what you want to do with a .22 personally I have just never gotten into the whole tricked out 10/22 thing. But if you want a gun that is like a lego set of .22's then the 10/22 is your gun. You can buy just about anything under the sun for one. I tend to keep everything I have simple so it just never appealed to me. And stock there are several .22 rifles out there that will outshoot a 10/22 for less money.

[LngRngShtr]

on the shotgun choice  good choice but the 5-shot barels for the Moss500 are more common than the 8 shot barrels when I bought mine 5 or so years ago I found this out

 

 I was going to convert my 5 shot 500 to an 8 shot until I did the barrel research and found limited options vs the 5 shot

 

now I have a 5 shot HD with the 18"  and a 28" waterfowl/Turkey gun   and am considering cutting down and threading for chokes another 28" to 22" for a dedicated Turkey barrel  or slug gun for Deer..

 

Just doublecheck barrel availability before you corner yourself you might find the barrels you need for the 8 shot these days

[Jonnin]

That's pretty much it. The 53 is the carbine version so it's shorter and lighter, but costs more. The 1891/30 is a looooong rifle. There are aftermarket stocks if you want to sporterize it. That cuts down on the weight and allows optics etc. to be put on one easily. It's sacrilege to some folks around here to do that. If you find a great deal on one with good metal and terrible wood, it's not the worst way to give the old girl a new life.

 

I do not think even the most hard-core collectors complain about putting aftermarket stocks etc on a gun.  Its the stuff that cannot be undone that get them riled up, things like taking a hacksaw to the barrel or a sander/saw to the stock. 

 

I have mixed feelings on cutting stuff up.  It increases the value of the survivors -- that is good for the collectors and all.  But it is pointless: the effort and money needed to make a $150 mosin into a deer gun could be spent to get an out of the box $300 deer gun that would better suit the purpose.   If there were something to be gained from it, I could see it, but time you buy a $50 modern stock, pay $50 more to get it set up for a scope,  get the barrel replaced or recrowned or counter bored or whatever ..... you have spent what a new gun costs.   If you can do all that yourself, it *may* be worth it in the hands of a skilled person with good tools as a hobby, assuming you have the time and desire to go there.  And some folks go all out, bedding the barrel to the stock and tweaking the trigger pull etc....  the $500 mosin money pit guns that you see here and there.

[Guest brandonnash]

on the shotgun choice good choice but the 5-shot barels for the Moss500 are more common than the 8 shot barrels when I bought mine 5 or so years ago I found this out

I was going to convert my 5 shot 500 to an 8 shot until I did the barrel research and found limited options vs the 5 shot

now I have a 5 shot HD with the 18" and a 28" waterfowl/Turkey gun and am considering cutting down and threading for chokes another 28" to 22" for a dedicated Turkey barrel or slug gun for Deer..

Just doublecheck barrel availability before you corner yourself you might find the barrels you need for the 8 shot these days

Not too worried about the extra barrels initially. May never get one. I want something to protect the house first. That's number one. I can still hunt with the 8 shot if needs be, I just might not be able to track birds as well with the short barrel and cylinder choke. I will later replace my 870 that I had with a new one or if I have a good bit of extra money maybe an 1100 semi with the longer 26/28" barrel and a full choke. This way I won't have to always change barrels any time I want to go and take a rabbit.

[Guest brandonnash]

I do not think even the most hard-core collectors complain about putting aftermarket stocks etc on a gun. Its the stuff that cannot be undone that get them riled up, things like taking a hacksaw to the barrel or a sander/saw to the stock.

I have mixed feelings on cutting stuff up. It increases the value of the survivors -- that is good for the collectors and all. But it is pointless: the effort and money needed to make a $150 mosin into a deer gun could be spent to get an out of the box $300 deer gun that would better suit the purpose. If there were something to be gained from it, I could see it, but time you buy a $50 modern stock, pay $50 more to get it set up for a scope, get the barrel replaced or recrowned or counter bored or whatever ..... you have spent what a new gun costs. If you can do all that yourself, it *may* be worth it in the hands of a skilled person with good tools as a hobby, assuming you have the time and desire to go there. And some folks go all out, bedding the barrel to the stock and tweaking the trigger pull etc.... the $500 mosin money pit guns that you see here and there.

The mosin would be left as a beater rifle. Something that I can take down a deer/bear/zombie/venomous duck with then if they still come charging flip it and use it for a club. I wouldn't want to put a bunch of money in it. If that chick in ww2 can take out 300+ guys at distance with the iron sights in Russia winter I believe I can take a deer in the Tennessee backwoods.

[Jonnin]

The mosin would be left as a beater rifle. Something that I can take down a deer/bear/zombie/venomous duck with then if they still come charging flip it and use it for a club. I wouldn't want to put a bunch of money in it. If that chick in ww2 can take out 300+ guys at distance with the iron sights in Russia winter I believe I can take a deer in the Tennessee backwoods.

 

The snipers (some women) had a pretty crappy scope I think -- probably a 3X power roughly?    It is, as I said earlier, a FINE deer gun for TN as-is.  

 

You don't need to use it as a club: they come with a bayonet.

[Guest brandonnash]

The snipers (some women) had a pretty crappy scope I think -- probably a 3X power roughly? It is, as I said earlier, a FINE deer gun for TN as-is.

You don't need to use it as a club: they come with a bayonet.

I have seen the scopes on the sniper versions and they are pretty horrid in today's standards as well as vs the German counterparts. I don't believe I will jump on spending money on a gunsmith just to make it ready for spending more money on a scope when I have seen some savage rifles on special at Walmart with scopes for less than $300.

And good point on the bayonet. I guess in a shtf eotwawki situation I could always use the gun as a paddle or "meat tenderizer".