Please explain it to this layman (Me)

[JayC]

So, if our state constitution says the legislature may only regulate the wearing of firearms, then how is TICS constitutional?  

 

TICS is a background check system for the purchasing of a firearm, what does that have to do with wearing of a firearm?

 

The clear intent of of our state constitution is to allow the legislature to regulate the wearing of firearms, to try and prevent crime...  not regulate purchasing or ownership of firearms to prevent crime.

 

So, if we get rid of TICS, we go to using the national system (which is also bad), but is the lesser of two evils, since under the national system you don't submit serial numbers or anything else about the firearm itself to the FBI.

 

Again, why should be pay $10 per background check, for a system that is slower, more error prone, and oh yeah unconstitutional?  We don't need to expand TICS, we should be pushing to drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, ( I am, it seems lately more than I am right) but, does the TICS system not include a FBI, TBI and local LE background check? 

 

Reading the TN Constitution, it says that the legislature has the power by law to regulate the wearing of arms. They, (TN legislature) has control over whatever the requirements are regarding the steps that a Citizen must take to purchase a firearm.  They have already decided that a background check is useful in reducing crime, it is a State requirement, not a Federal one.

 

 

[Worriedman]

So far, I can tell you that I can count on one hand the number of people I have seen in Nashville in the last 4 years actively pursuing an agenda detailing more freedom to carry and own firearms.

 

Understanding the old saw that "The squeaky wheel gets the grease" not only are those who desire more freedom to carry their personal firearms being outspent, they are out numbered by a huge margin in who shows up.  There was a room for of paid individuals who stood against us on the Employee Safe Commute last year in the Senate Committee hearings, 4 Citizens and one paid lobbyist in favor of.  We carried the day on the vote, Fed EX and Volkswagen outspent us and beat us into oblivion.

 

Till we change that factor, we are doomed to failure.

 

Federal Express paid more money to buy politicians in TN in the last session than our side has spent in the last 20 years.

 

It is not about what is Constitutional, it is about what the perception is that the pols hold about them getting re-elected that matters.  They do not care about our issues, it is all about them getting back to Nashville, anyone who does not believe that is a fool.

 

They are like fish, if they keep in the cover, they live long enough to get fat, if they stray into the open, they get gigged or eaten.  We had better learn to provide those who share out ideals with some cover.

[JayC]

Worried,

 

I've been down there and having meetings the different legislators over the last 4 years, although I don't support the current parking lot bill, and have stopped volunteering with the TFA over their pushing to remove my rights as a business owner.

 

I pushed pretty hard for the 'guns in restaurants' law, to the point Beth Harwell knew my number via caller id when I called her ;)

[Oh Shoot]

So, if we get rid of TICS, we go to using the national system (which is also bad), but is the lesser of two evils, since under the national system you don't submit serial numbers or anything else about the firearm itself to the FBI.

 

???

 

4473 has section for Manufacturer - Model - Serial Number - Type - Caliber-Gauge. Same for everyone in the US purchasing gun from FFL.

 

- OS

[JayC]

Correct but in theory the 4473 never leaves the gun store...  The information sent to NICS doesn't include the make, model or serial number, only if the weapon is a handgun, rifle, or other(don't quote me on this part), and then the buyers information to verify they're not a criminal.

 

You can read about the process here: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/federal-firearms-licensees/nics-firearms-licensee-manual

 

You'll note on page 16, they only ask for information in Section A of the 4473, and don't indicate that any information will be needed from Section D.

 

Where as TICS does receive the make, model, and serial number of the firearm in question, and is supposed to delete that information within 48 hours, there is some question as to whether the process in place at the state involving their data center backup results in information being kept on some or all purchases past 48 hours, but TDOS would never knowingly violate the law would they? :)

 

Since the ATF is generally prohibited by law from computerizing 4473's into a database, and the paper forms are scattered all across the country in lots of different places, the thought process is these "safe guards" would prohibit the federal or state governments from creating a registry of gun owners.

 

Clearly, in either case, the NICS is a better solution than TICS...  since it's free, it has a lower false positive rate (but still very high), doesn't require that the information on firearms being purchased (make, model serial number) be transmitted to the government and it's generally faster :)

 

Not to mention that pesky Section 26 of the TN state constitution that prohibits the legislature from regulating the purchasing of firearms ;)

 

???

 

4473 has section for Manufacturer - Model - Serial Number - Type - Caliber-Gauge. Same for everyone in the US purchasing gun from FFL.

 

- OS

Edited January 22, 2013 by JayC

[Oh Shoot]

Where as TICS does receive the make, model, and serial number of the firearm in question, ...

 

I can only give my own anecdotal testimony on that....but the last two times I bought a gun from FFL where they still called it in, and I was standing right there during the call,  the only information given I can remember was type of gun, like "rifle" or "long gun".

 

One was from Dick's and one was from Walmart, they were both rifles, I can't remember if they specified the manufacturer, but sure seems they didn't give the serial number. I'll be the first to admit my memory is not infallible, though.

 

On the other hand, I've seen it said that the stolen weapon database is consulted (either on TN or fed level or both) for every check, and of course this couldn't be done without the serial number.

 

So I dunno for sure. I think we need to hear from an FFL or two on this one.

 

- OS

Edited January 22, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Worriedman]

Worried,

 

I've been down there and having meetings the different legislators over the last 4 years, although I don't support the current parking lot bill, and have stopped volunteering with the TFA over their pushing to remove my rights as a business owner.

 

I pushed pretty hard for the 'guns in restaurants' law, to the point Beth Harwell knew my number via caller id when I called her ;)

She voted against it 4 times.  She is not a defender of the 2nd, she is a Progressive and as long as she habits the Speaker's position, no supportive legislation will make it past her death grip.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

"Check the people, not track the firearm.  Two birds, one rock." That's the premise I would rather see. Logging of a firearm's

make, model and number, with the person's ID is registration. I could live with the state doing that. That puts the blame on a crime

back to where it belongs: the person using it. Not an infringement, at all.

[JayC]

Well yes, yes she is ;)  Hence the reason she knew my number via caller id by heart :)  But it seems my house was moved out of her district :)

 

 

She voted against it 4 times.  She is not a defender of the 2nd, she is a Progressive and as long as she habits the Speaker's position, no supportive legislation will make it past her death grip.

 

 

[1gewehr]

"Check the people, not track the firearm.  Two birds, one rock." That's the premise I would rather see. Logging of a firearm's

make, model and number, with the person's ID is registration. I could live with the state doing that. That puts the blame on a crime

back to where it belongs: the person using it. Not an infringement, at all.

 

No, no, and HELL NO!

This will not make any difference in crime stats.  And I WILL NOT comply with any registration attempts.  Historically, registration ALWAYS leads to confiscation.  In NY, they know who has legal semi-auto rifles.  Guess where they will be looking for 30rd magazines when the one-year grace period is over?  And, if the specific rifle is no longer legal, guess how they will know where to look for folks who decided to not comply with such an obviously unConstitutional law?  It's happened before, right here in the US.  If we permit these 'Universal Background Checks', then that Form 4473 becomes defacto firearm registration.