IMPORTANT - Read This >> White House Proposal for Gun Control

[mikegideon]

Is this guy saying something like "We will not comply"? At least we are going to have a LOT of people join the fight.

 

BTW... I know Obama didn't try to do it by EO. Still, we have a lot of folks on our side, and this is one indication. David is right. We need to fight hard. We just don't need to lose our will.

 

Edited January 17, 2013 by mikegideon

[Wingshooter]

 I dont think private sells will be illegal even if this crap passed we would just have to meet at an ffl to do the sell / buy and fill out the required paper work and pay the king etc. I sure the hell hope none of it goes through congress 

 

 

Infringement, registration is all that is, without saying it.

 

 

Exactly. If this junk passes, you can never claim "ah, I sold it", or "somebody stole it", or "it sank in a boating accident". This proposal would require paperwork anytime the gun leaves your possession. This is a back-door registration. Anytime a new gun is bought or a used one transferred, they would know who has it for the rest of time. Therefore, it would be "registered".

 

 

This MUST be defeated! Now is the time to ramp up our efforts not sit back and breathe a sigh of relief. That is what he is counting on. Hussein Obama is not dumb. He knows gun owners feel like they got off easy today. That is probably by design so that the bulk of the letters and phone calls stop. Continue to bug the heck out of those on The Hill and our local reps. Especially the ones on the "other side".

Edited January 17, 2013 by Batman

[Wingshooter]

This is absolutely what he is proposing and what he wants Congress to pick up and run with.  The news conference today touched briefly on elements of this document but glazed over a lot of other things that gun owners obviously will find inflammatory.  He and his handlers knew that it would not be good press to go out there, surround himself with the children and then lay out precisely what measures he intended to see enacted..

The frustrating thing I'm seeing here in this thread are responses from people acting like this is no big revelation and just more layers of the onion being peeled away.  It absolutely is a big revelation because the Administration just laid out 22 pages worth of precisely what they want to see happen.  This is the blueprint.  This is the answer to all of the questions we've seen posted on TGO and elsewhere lately asking "Will they try to ___________ ?".  There's no more guessing about what they want done.  It's right there in black and white and the next step will be seeing how many parts of it they can sail through Congress.

 

You are exactly right, this is the blueprint. At least the blueprint that we commoners were allowed to see. I bet the real plan is even worse to include the "C" word. These people in obama's little circle are up to no good, and we absolutely MUST defeat their plan.... 100% of it.

[KaNuckles]

That's exactly the thing.  This list represents the current Administration's effort to throw it all at the wall (Congress) and see what sticks.  This is their wish list.  They know some of it won't go through, and they will use those bits as bargaining pieces to get the more important things passed.

 

The goal for us should be to put so much pressure on our representatives that none of it sticks.  None of it passes.  So much pressure that in four years, Obama and his cronies will have to pack up their toys and GTF home all sad and dejected.

 

A lot of folks here love their Gadsden flags.  They love the story of the 300 Spartans at Thermopylae.  They love the challenge to "Come and Take" (Molon Labe).  Well, this is your MOLON LABE moment, people.  Now's when you start cranking up the pressure and let it be known that you don't want the people who work for you in Washington to give a single inch on this stuff.

EDIT: What was I thinking when I wrote this?

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by KaNuckles

[mav]

My biggest fear is 80% of the people who are crying "you'll never take my guns!!!" will gladly lay their guns at the feet of the oppressors when they show up.

 

There is no reason to fear such action; it is human nature, and it is inevitable that it will happen  The majority of people, including those who talk tough on the keyboard, will lay down their arms if confiscation ever occurs.  I am fairly certain that I would act according to my convictions if such an event ever occured.  However, don't think for one minute that I wouldn't seriously question my convictions if a group of individuals showed up at my house asking me to turn over my guns.  It would definitely be a moment in which one would have to change underwear.

 

Anyway, we aren't even close to a situation like that occuring, so it is really premature to discuss such matters.  We have so much we can do legislatively to keep things like that from ever occuring, so it is best to focus our efforts in that arena instead of dwelling on the worst possible outcome.

[KaNuckles]

There is no reason to fear such action; it is human nature, and it is inevitable that it will happen  The majority of people, including those who talk tough on the keyboard, will lay down their arms if confiscation ever occurs.  I am fairly certain that I would act according to my convictions if such an event ever occured.  However, don't think for one minute that I wouldn't seriously question my convictions if a group of individuals showed up at my house asking me to turn over my guns.  It would definitely be a moment in which one would have to change underwear.

 

Anyway, we aren't even close to a situation like that occuring, so it is really premature to discuss such matters.  We have so much we can do legislatively to keep things like that from ever occuring, so it is best to focus our efforts in that arena instead of dwelling on the worst possible outcome.

 

..

Edited June 8, 2017 by KaNuckles

[mikegideon]

There are lots of ways to rebel. I agree that it's not time for any of that yet. A small percentage of the population actually fought in the revolution. A large percentage supported them in some way. We, as a group, tend to obey every law out there. If those laws ever become so unfair that we can't tolerate them, that will change. Rebellion of any kind doesn't survive without lots of support.

 

This whole thing has been a good exercise for our brains, and it's not over yet. If we're smart, we'll do what it takes to win the fight, and come out stronger because of it.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

People been bitching about income tax for a long time, but most people pay it because they can be picked off one at a time. Paying the protection money is easier than going to jail and/or having all one's possessions auctioned off for pennies on the dollar. One might expect the same caving on the guns issue. But even if 1 percent resist violently, it would be a big deal such as the USA hasn't ever seen.

 

As others mentioned, any attempt to tighten up mental health checks will backfire, causing many people who might benefit from counseling to avoid seeking it. The biggest violence risk is from "new crazies" acute cases, and the acute cases usually look entirely normal until they "suddenly" break down. The "initial entry into the mental health system" is typically the most dramatic and weird phase. The gov a firmer thumb on millions of "basically harmless" burned-out chronic schizophrenics-- If done humanely might benefit the burned-out schizophrenics but you could spend a bunch of money filling out useless paperwork and maintaining databases, without helping anybody except all the newly-hired "mental health auxiliary bean-counters".

 

I'm ambivalent about "suicide prevention". An old friend was a bright creative fella, as "normal" as anybody else I knew at the time. Around age 30 he started getting the schizophrenia and after a few years was a tortured miserable soul living on disability in his mom's basement, unable to make a living or even interact with his friends. From a statistical view, he wasn't gonna get any better and most likely get progressively more miserable over time. He finally "got it together", went and bought a walmart shotgun and blew his head off. Had I been in his situation, his solution might have made excellent sense. I am not advising that crazy people should easily acquire shotguns, but OTOH tightening up the system to make even suicide near-impossible-- That is getting rather heavy big-brother-ish. No way out unless the government approves.

 

We've been "on the edge" of gun bans a long time. IF the supreme court had coronated Al Gore rather than coronating GWB, and IF Gore had somehow managed to somehow respond halfway reasonably to 9/11 without breaking down into a gibbering fool, the 9/11 patriotic popularity boost combined with Gore's gun-ban predilections, all the fun toys would have been banned 10 years ago. Gore was proudly announcing on morning tv shows that people ought not own semi-auto pistols, and he thought it was a winning issue. If the supreme court had coronated the fella, it might have been a winning issue.

[mikegideon]

People been bitching about income tax for a long time, but most people pay it because they can be picked off one at a time. Paying the protection money is easier than going to jail and/or having all one's possessions auctioned off for pennies on the dollar. One might expect the same caving on the guns issue. But even if 1 percent resist violently, it would be a big deal such as the USA hasn't ever seen.

 

As others mentioned, any attempt to tighten up mental health checks will backfire, causing many people who might benefit from counseling to avoid seeking it. The biggest violence risk is from "new crazies" acute cases, and the acute cases usually look entirely normal until they "suddenly" break down. The "initial entry into the mental health system" is typically the most dramatic and weird phase. The gov a firmer thumb on millions of "basically harmless" burned-out chronic schizophrenics-- If done humanely might benefit the burned-out schizophrenics but you could spend a bunch of money filling out useless paperwork and maintaining databases, without helping anybody except all the newly-hired "mental health auxiliary bean-counters".

 

I'm ambivalent about "suicide prevention". An old friend was a bright creative fella, as "normal" as anybody else I knew at the time. Around age 30 he started getting the schizophrenia and after a few years was a tortured miserable soul living on disability in his mom's basement, unable to make a living or even interact with his friends. From a statistical view, he wasn't gonna get any better and most likely get progressively more miserable over time. He finally "got it together", went and bought a walmart shotgun and blew his head off. Had I been in his situation, his solution might have made excellent sense. I am not advising that crazy people should easily acquire shotguns, but OTOH tightening up the system to make even suicide near-impossible-- That is getting rather heavy big-brother-ish. No way out unless the government approves.

 

We've been "on the edge" of gun bans a long time. IF the supreme court had coronated Al Gore rather than coronating GWB, and IF Gore had somehow managed to somehow respond halfway reasonably to 9/11 without breaking down into a gibbering fool, the 9/11 patriotic popularity boost combined with Gore's gun-ban predilections, all the fun toys would have been banned 10 years ago. Gore was proudly announcing on morning tv shows that people ought not own semi-auto pistols, and he thought it was a winning issue. If the supreme court had coronated the fella, it might have been a winning issue.

 

Lots of good stuff in there, Lester. I would think, though, that the worse time to push a gun ban would be after a violent attack on US soil.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Lots of good stuff in there, Lester. I would think, though, that the worse time to push a gun ban would be after a violent attack on US soil.

 

Yep, its hard to guess what-if.

 

OTOH at the time of the election the public was split EXACTLY 50-50 and anybody who voted Gore presumably agreed that people don't "need" semi-auto pistols. The AWB was still in effect and though it was eventually possible to allow it to expire, I doubt if the law had been "non-sunsettable" that the AWB could have been revoked even with both houses of congress and the presidency in the hands of RINOs. If not written to automatically sunset so that mere gridlock could kill it off, the closest thing to repeal would be a "legislative reform" of the AWB managed by such freedom-loving statists as Arlen Specter, John McCain, Peter S. King. In the name of "improving" the AWB, AWB II would have been more atrocious than AWB I, especially if written in post-9/11 hysteria. John McCain, the godfather of campaign finance reform-- Imagine how excellent old John could have botched "assault weapon ban reform".

 

Post-9/11 Giuliani, McCain, Graham, Specter, Peter King, in a fit of gingoistic patriotic fervor, would have been "joined at the hip" along with patriotic leftists such as Hillary, Feinstein, Schumer, supporting our wise fearless leader Albert Gore Jr. Gun control would have fit perfectly within the framework of the Patriot Act. After all, who would want any muslim terrorists buying semi-auto pistols? Gun Control might have been one of the least-draconian additions which that mess of morons could have added to the Patriot Act under the fearless leadership of Gore. The Patriot Act was enough of a horrible Cluster Flock WITHOUT Gore added to the mix.

Edited January 17, 2013 by Lester Weevils

[Guest 6.8 AR]

That's a lot to think about, Lester. True. We would have been flocked real bad if that happened.

[TGO David]

 My biggest fear is 80% of the people who are crying "you'll never take my guns!!!" will gladly lay their guns at the feet of the oppressors when they show up. "Oh, they could put me in prison!!" Then to make themselves feel better "well we fought hard everybody. Good job. We'll get'em next time

 

You know what?  I'm tired of hearing this claim being made by people like you.  I know you mean well and you're full of piss, vinegar and angst about this and probably believe you really will hole up in your house and make your last stand when "they come for your guns" but even you don't really know if you will carry through with that or lay down that rifle when you and your family are staring down the barrels of ten or twelve other rifles being carried by heavily trained, highly proficient FBI SRT operators.

 

What you need to keep in mind is the "fight" and the fact that it means different things for different people.

 

Some of your fellow gun owners have defined the fight to exist within the political space.  They are going to exhaust every single option they can to wage the battle FOR the 2nd Amendment politically.  If they lose this battle, the fight is over for them.  They won't be happy, but they will have hit the limit of their fight and that will be it.

 

Other of your fellow gun owners may seriously carry through with the "Come and take them!" challenge and trade shots with a superior force.  That is the boundary of the "fight" for them and they will go as far as they have committed to go... which will be a quick and violent end for them.

 

Both of these people have defined what their fight is and both of them will have waged it according to the parameters they were comfortable with.  It doesn't mean that the guy who chose to fight politically is any less serious about his convictions than you are, it just means that his weapons were the ballot box, phone calls, emails, letters and visits with his representatives rather than a stockpile of ammo and MREs.

 

If you want to go out in a blaze of glory, that's your business.

 

Until then, you share a mutual fight with the other guy who you're philosophically looking down your nose at.  You and he both share the political fight.  Let's do what we can to avoid you ever having to trade shots with those people coming for your guns, by fighting the current battle.

 

If that fails, well... good luck.

[Independent_shooter]

Well stated David, furthermore I think to hypothesize on a public forum what our collective response would/should be isn't very prudent to begin with.  To be honest, I don't know where I would end up in a worst case scenario - but then again I try to deal with what's in front of me and my family and not "what-if scenarios". 

 

On another note, I have to imagine that this debate and the ongoing debt ceiling (and budget) debate will be negotiated in tandem within the walls of congress and the executive branch.  They will be used as pawns to negotiate with.

[KaNuckles]

edit

Edited June 8, 2017 by KaNuckles

[Independent_shooter]

I think all of us have had posts come across wrong or otherwise our intent misinterpreted. Lord knows I have!

[Oh Shoot]

....We've been "on the edge" of gun bans a long time. ..

 

Yep, just takes the perfect storm to come together.

 

People seem to always fear Dems more than the GOP in this regard, and just seem to forget that:

 

- Reagan is as responsible as any other influence on Kali gun laws being as restrictive as the are today. Hell, he actually wanted to ban all handgun ownership and license all rifles and handguns. He was also, of course, 100% behind Brady Act.

 

- Bush the Elder resigned his lifetime NRA membership in disgust, and halted various firearm importation

 

- Dubya stated he was all for renewing the 94 AWB and for universal background checks

 

Just to name a few.

 

- OS

[Independent_shooter]

Yep, just takes the perfect storm to come together.

People seem to always fear Dems more than the GOP in this regard, and just seem to forget that:

- Reagan is as responsible as any other influence on Kali gun laws being as restrictive as the are today. Hell, he actually wanted to ban all handgun ownership and license all rifles and handguns. He was also, of course, 100% behind Brady Act.

- Bush the Elder resigned his lifetime NRA membership in disgust, and halted various firearm importation

- Dubya stated he was all for renewing the 94 AWB and for universal background checks

Just to name a few.

- OS

Exactly, I think that the parties are more similar than different...that the divisiveness is more show than reality. I vote repub b/c they're the lesser of two evils. We are moving more to an aristocracy where the elected officials are more concerned with staying in power than representing their constituents. There are exceptions, but in general this is the way I see it. Edited January 20, 2013 by Independent_shooter

[RAJTENN]

Today, with respect to a line item in ObamaCare, I heard a talking head say "the devil is in the details" with respect to the fact that federal employees have already written over 18,000 pages of instructions and implementing definitions in order to (understand and apply?) the bill passed by congress. While the list of Obama gun control items covers but a few pages...just wait and see what happens if even one of these items makes it into law.

[Guest copperhead_1911]

Absolutely nothing Obama does surprises me. What would really surprise me is how americans stand for it.

[Chief07]

So you thought the list of Executive Orders that you got from Fox News or CNN was all there was to it, eh?

 

You wish.

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/120650415/White-House-list-of-executive-orders-on-gun-violence

 

 

Attaching a copy of the PDF to this post also.

I get so tired of these gun grabbers use the term "common sense"

Who do they think they are fooling? They ignore their own statistics on crime reduction.

These "COMMUNISTS" yes I said it, just want to control the population.

Until we vote these anti-Americans out, the propaganda and flat out lies will not stop.

It is time to clean house in Washington.